Pre-Purchase vetting- Sarcoids. Gutted.

[Dusty85]

Apologies- i think this will end up long.

Im gutted. Had the potential new horse vetted this morning. Vet found a sarcoid Now I'm split between head and heart.

So; horse is a 4yo 16hh Black warmblood mare.She totally lovely, even the vet (a eventing specialist one) commented that she had such a lovely trainable temperament, and was beautiful and classy to look at. She hasn't done a huge amount- been local SJ classes, XC schooling twice, local dressage/shows etc. She isn't particularly expensive.

So I'll start with the negatives that were picked up.

1) Conformation- I asked the vet particularly about her front pasterns. he agreed they are a little long, Cannons fine, although her hind leg conformation was prefect and strong. Her off fore toe is also slightly turned inwards (only noticed in trot). he said this may change as her chest develops and strengthens, and it might correct. otherwise, conformationally he said she's excellent. For eventing up to Novice he said they they *most Likely* would be absolutely fine.

2) She currently needs a small amount of sedalin to be shod (cold shod however). Ive spoken to the farrier who said she's actually as good as gold. The story the vendors give is that she was a little fidgety once, and they already had another sedated, so they decided to do her as well. It was IV initially- now just 4mls of sedalin. Vet said it may not be an issue- but off the record said that if I can't get her off the sedation that it can be a night mare. he added in that correct shoeing would be important due to the fore leg pastern/rotation and that a farrier shouldn't have to 'rush' as she's mucking about. When the vet tested her feet she was absolutely fine and let him bang/pinch them with no issues.

3) he found a blooming' sarcoid About 5-10p in size. its between her front legs- not in the girth area, but a martingale if used would rub it. its a little crusty. (I'm very surprised I hadn't felt it when i saw her before but never mind) No others that we could find.

Now- Ive a horse with sarcoids before- one 5p in the girth area that never caused a problem, and another one further back along the belly- also 5p sized that never caused any problems either. However- I know full well what a complete nightmare they can be- and also that they will now be an exclusion on the insurance- THIS is my main problem.
The vet was very honest- said you never know- some cause problems, others don't, and in other cases you buy one without scrods only for them to develop them later. he suggested that if I did go ahead to leave it alone for 2-3 weeks and see what it does- considering its scabbing over at the moment she may already be having a reaction to it and it may settle/dissappear. he suggested blood root ointment in the first instance- £200 for a pot that would last a long time. use that, wait for it to get irritated/sore then leave it, wait for it to drop off and see whats underneath.


Now. My head is saying walk away- find another without sarcoids, where there will be no insurance exclusion (thats providing nothing else is found anyway) and one that wouldn't have such a limit on re-sale if after a year/two or we didn't click I could sell on easily enough. (i like to know that I can sell easily should I need to change). And then theres the shoeing issue on top.

My heart is saying she is a lovely mare, she has such potential and is generally an absolute darling to be around. She has lovely movement and I could easily get her out and about by the end of the year. She is completely sound and clean limbed.

if I find a different horse- they might not have sarcoids but be a complete pig!

Decisions decisions. not really sure what Im after rby posting all of this- the problem with sarcoids is you ask 10 people and you get 10 different answers. The issue is that I'M not sure what to do either!!

Also- if you paid a deposit 'subject to vetting' but pulled out because of the above reasons would you expect to get your deposit back?

Sorry to bore you all but Im so disappointed.

 

[PuzzlePiece]

Personally I'd walk away. Sounds like your heart's ruling your head atm. Don't rush into any decision, make sure you're 100% happy with the decision you make. They'll be people who will back you either way.
And yes I'd expect a deposit back. Sarcoids are a reason to 'fail' vetting.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Sorry I personally wouldn't touch a horse with sarcoids, especially one in an annoying place that can't be left alone by tack. If your looking for a long term/lifetime horse then you will find others. That coupled with long pasterns I would keep looking I am afraid.

 

[Honey08]

Difficult isn't it! I bought a 4 yr old with a couple and remember having the same dither. Eight years on and there are still no issues. Only you can decide.

I'm not sure about the deposit. Again it's difficult. The vets never say pass/fail with small sarcoidosis, more like be aware and decide for yourself, so the owner could argue she didn't fail the vetting..

As you said, everyone would say different, but I'd be tempted to buy. Does she need a martingale? I'd try sarceaze or something over the winter. Two of mine went after applying lemon grass and tea tree oil (vet's suggestion) but his were more small warts.

Good luck.

 

[samlf]

I think you should be able to re-sell a horse with sarcoids if it's the right price - I know several people who have knowingly bought horses with sarcoids, albeit for less than they would have been if they didn't have them, but then they couldn't have afforded the horse if it was sarcoid-less.

If you are happy/able to continue without sarcoids insured then perhaps make the seller an offer in light of the issues thrown up by the vetting.

The shoeing would concern me a little - can you ask to be present when she is shod and see for yourself?
Although mine aren't shod so I'd just whip them off and work her barefoot

 

[JoJo_]

Its such a tricky one. My last horse had a sarcoid on his inner thigh but it wasnt in a rubbing position and didnt grow at all in the 4yrs I had him but I have a friend with a 6yo black mare who is now riddled with sarcoids which she is spending a fortune treating and has had to consider PTS as the mare was on box rest through summer due to flies bothering her etc.

Also the shoeing issue if she actually does need the sedation may be a problem when eventing if loses a shoe and needs the on call farrier? Just another thought.

I would also worry that I would regret the decision if I went ahead with the purchase (although she may turn out to be brilliant so its soo tough!).

You should get your deposit back as although vets dont pass or fail vettings, the vet has found a sarcoid which i'm presuming they didnt point out to you beforehand so you have every right to walk away.

 

[stormox]

I would buy without hesitation- she sounds lovely, slightly long pastern and a bit toe-in.... very minor, no horse is perfect conformation, and as for the sarcoid, (note sarcoid s, not sarcoids pl) it is just as likely to disappear on its own as get worse. And you could buy a horse without a sarcoid and it might develop one!! And you mightent even need a martingale,so It'd be no bother..

 

[Annie B.]

Walk away I have just spent thousands on radiotherapy for one of mine. I wanted to buy his half brother and on the vetting we found a sarcoid the size of a grain of rice. I cried so hard but walked away.

 

[stormox]

could you band it?

 

[crabbymare]

I would not be put off by a sarcoid on a young horse as they often disappear on their own and I have also bought 2 horses with them and managed to get rid of them without vets fees. al down to does the price seem reasonable for the type and ability taking into consideration the sarcoid and if you feel she will do what you want long term. personally I would not refund or expect a deposit to be refunded because of a small sarcoid in that area

 

[exracehorse]

I bought my lad with a sarcoid on lower chest 3 yrs ago. Its never increased in size. My daughter's first pony developed a sarcoid on her arm pit after purchase which did spread. I would take the risk but would want a price reduction from the seller.

 

[springtime1331]

I bought a 4 year old mare last year who had plenty of plus points but two negatives - sarcoids (which had been treated but were still present) and slightly long pasterns. It has paid off though all the sarcoids have now dropped off and no new ones have grown. The pasterns haven't changed though! Personally, I wouldn't buy an older one with many, but a youngster with a few I would risk - but only if they didn't interfere with tack.

 

[Dusty85]

could you band it?

Vet said it wouldn't really be suitable for banding- its quite flat and not really predunculated enough to get a band around it.

 

[ihatework]

There is no such thing as a perfect horse.
I'd buy.

 

[stormox]

and I certainly wouldn't worry about the sedation to shoe... I know loads of horses that needed sedation for their first few shoeings- but a few sets later with an understanding farrier, and daily picking up feet by their owner they become perfect to shoe without anything.

 

[alex_mac30]

My horse had quite a few small flat ones as a 4/5 year old. I put aloe vera gel on them as I read on like it was good for them, they went. I don’t think it was the gel that help just that with the right feeding and increase in the health/immune system as he got older the body fought them off. I have read really good things about turmeric in horses with sarcoids.
I dont think it would put me off buying if it was small and not causing any bother at the moment. I would rather have a nice horse with a trainable personality and a small sarcoids than a perfect looking horse which is difficult the handle and inconsistence when ridden.
The farrier thing would put me off more just cos I could that the stress/ worry about having it shod every 6 weeks, potentially not being able to ask anyone else to do it for you, always having could be a problem for me as I work full time.

I suppose it’s up to you, can you afford for this horse to need treatment or potential not be ridable if they spread? Buying a horse is always a gamble, it could go out the first and get injured and never be ridden again

 

[ester]

My concern is that if an area that can rub it might also be more susceptible to change.

Essentially I think you need to decide if you can afford to treat it on top of purchase price (will they drop price to account for it?). The trouble is that treatment might have to be more than once too. I'm really not sure, I would be inclined to walk away I think, sorry.

 

[littleshetland]

Well, unless you're planning to set the world on fire with amazing competition results - temperament is everything, and if you think she's the one for you - I'd buy her. Any horse is at risk of developing sarcoids and apparently Mill Reef had long pasterns.....didn't seem to to him any harm. Perhaps a sarcoid related price reduction might be in the offing?

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I would be with a price reduction.

 

[HipoH]

Pretty much what others have said. I bought a youngster without sarcoids and it developed them so even if you bought a different horse there is no guarantees that it wouldn't develop them (or something else) later. In some young horses they can disappear on their own as one theory is they are related to an immature immune system in others they grow more.

The pain of this one is though now its identified on the vetting it would be excluded and you would have to negotiate with the insurance about just what is excluded, my insurance company excluded all skin conditions after sarcoid treatment so goodness knows what they would exclude in this case. Many horses have sacroids and the owners don't even know they've got them, they are only a problem when they become a problem!

If this horse is everything you want and this is the only issue I would possibly go ahead with a purchase but only at a very significantly reduced price. This would enable you to spend the difference on treatment should you wish to or if it doesn't work out and you needed to sell on again you wouldn't be swallowing a big financial loss, likewise if it all went horribly wrong and the sarcoid became sarcoids you wouldn't be so out of pocket. You may find you get your perfect horse for a knock down price.

Regards the shoeing thing this is something that can be worked on but is not in most cases insurmountable.

If I was you and this was the horse I wanted I would get my hard core negotiating hat on see if there's a deal to be done but also be prepared to walk away, there are plenty of other nice horses out there.

 

[rara007]

Up to you to decide on the risk. Perfect 4YOs can go on to breakdown/have sarcoids at 6, so that argues both ways! We had a pony with one on his chest (under a driving collar- a driving pony), had it treated admittedly not cheap, but he hasn't had another since and it caused no problem.

 

[wildwest]

Walk away and would expect my deposit back.plenty of nice horses without sarcroids

 

[w1bbler]

Walk away & deposit back.you will have an insurance exclusion for sarcoids.
Had a horse develop one sarcoid about 6 months after purchase, then suddenly sprouted loads more, about a year later was pts with a huge internal growth, believe sarcoids were the outward sign

 

[Goldenstar]

I would be with a price reduction.

That's what I would do seek to reduce the price by around £1500.

 

[Dusty85]

Thank you all for your replies and experiences.

I am currently waiting for the 'official' report to be emailed through by the vet. I will also talk to the vendors about a price reduction and see what they offer.

Her off fore pastern isn't a dramatic thing- but is slightly on the long side. He said for advanced event/racing it would be a concern, but otherwise it shouldn't have too much of an effect. The shoeing issue I was well aware about from the start, and this alone i was happy to deal with, continue to use sedalin and see if this could eventually be reduced in the future.

I accept that you never know what horses will develop- but at least then you'd hope you'd be covered by your insurance as at least you didn't know this at the time of purchase. I guess I could afford treatment- but then no one likes spending 'thousands' on anything. (and in particular if you think this needs repeating some time later!)

The again I will also be slightly annoyed if they say I can't get my deposit back and Ive forked out for the five stage!

 

[gunnergundog]

Walk away & deposit back.you will have an insurance exclusion for sarcoids.
Had a horse develop one sarcoid about 6 months after purchase, then suddenly sprouted loads more, about a year later was pts with a huge internal growth, believe sarcoids were the outward sign

Two years ago I was interested in a nice young horse which was found to have a very small melanoma on his dock. I checked with the insurance company before purchasing and they said they would obviously exclude but that also whilst they wouldn't put an exclusion on for colic IF he was ever opened up and further melanomas were found inside then i would be liable for the colic surgery/treatment too.

I know that melanomas and sarcoids are not the same thing, but it may be worth a call to an insurance company to see what the situation is.

I walked away from the above horse and subsequently found one with no ifs or buts.

 

[lizness]

I would maybe be worried how the horse would deal with treatment for the sarcoid if she needed it (it is often painful and cost could soon add up with IV sedation if that would work!), if she may have to be sedated for shoeing. May be totally unconnected though.
I would maybe leave it although a real shame

 

[oldie48]

I had a horse develop a sarcoid in the armpit a few months after I bought him. It was removed surgically and there was no further problem. However, what would bother me is that the owner didn't declare the sarcoid before the vetting, surely they must have known it was there? If they didn't mention that, what else have they not disclosed? I would walk away because I'd be concerned that I wasn't dealing with honest vendors

 

[PorkChop]

I wouldn't be worried about the sarcoid per se, however it will affect the insurance. Like others have said there is no such thing as a perfect horse, so if you loved her when you rode her and she was perfect in that sense then I would buy. Tbh the shoeing issue would put me off more, even though that is a problem that should be easy enough to overcome with time.

 

[cbmcts]

Think I'd walk away - the whole point of a vetting is to prove that the horse is good to go, at least on that day! That's why we pay the £250+ for a vetting.
We all know that it can go wrong at any time with horses but it should be a clean slate especially with a 4 yo that you want to compete. Also, if you have to sedate to shoe, how does that affect competing? Do you have to let the drug leave the system so you can't compete for x amount of days after sedation? Lost shoes could be a real problem in those circs...

There will be another talented youngster out there for you.