Pregnant Feral Mare

[K8&Ted]

Hi all, just looking for some tips and reassurance.

I recently bought a pregnant feral mare from a drift. Not my first pregnant but my first one that is wild. I brought her home 3 weeks ago.

Her udder is BIG but no waxing. Teats are chubby and pointing outwards.
We have lip curling, rolling, flank biting, tail swishing and belly kicking.
Id say 2 weeks left, max.

I brought her in from my handling pen during the snow fall last week and looking for ideas on how to get her used to handling for the impending vet visits.
I want her to be checked over after birth and start her vaccinations.
But of course, she isn't letting me within a metre of her.
She is getting better with the use of a feedbucket, but any sign of closer and she runs around scared.

I kind of feel I'm doing the right thing by not pushing her too quickly but I am worried about not being able to give her the correct health treatment. I feel its only going to get worse if she gets protective over the foal once it's on the ground.

I'm a natural horsemanship user, so a lot of low key energy, encouraging her to move away from me when I ask her too, etc.

I've got her on magic calmer to try and help, and I do have 3 syringes (which I am umm-ing and err-ing over using) just to get the initial contact over and done with. I have got her on the best feed I can afford so not looking for more ideas on diet.

I do have a camera on her 24/7 so I can watch things from a safe distance to not stress her out.

Any tips for first contact or links to videos would be great.

TIA,

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Personally I would stop encouraging her to move away from you at this stage and concentrate on building her confidence to come to you

 

[maya2008]

We had a feral one. Made the decision to leave her be as didn’t want to risk the foal through stressing her. We managed to get one vaccination done with help of a feed bucket but we did have more time than you. Otherwise left alone. It was fine. Gave birth with no intervention needed and managed to get vet to foal as we had them in a pen off the stable so could just about catch.

For catching, all feed came from us. So if she wanted what was in the bucket she had to stand half a metre from me, then a little closer every time until I was holding the bucket while she ate, then hold and touch, then stand by neck, by shoulder, slide undone headcollar on neck, down neck, carefully do up (over many days). String from headcollar, hold string while eating. Progressed to lead rope on. Multiple times per day, little feeds of chaff and beet, less hay during the day and more from us.

 

[tda]

I think at this point (teats pointing out=imminent birth) you are just going to have to leave her be and hope for the best.
It's either that or wrestle a halter on her
Keep feeding and watering her regularly, has she foaled before do you know?

 

[TheMule]

I actually think you need to force the issue to get a halter on her- if she needs vet help this is essential. Use oral sedation in feed if necessary. You need to handle the foal from the start

 

[K8&Ted]

We had a feral one. Made the decision to leave her be as didn’t want to risk the foal through stressing her. We managed to get one vaccination done with help of a feed bucket but we did have more time than you. Otherwise left alone. It was fine. Gave birth with no intervention needed and managed to get vet to foal as we had them in a pen off the stable so could just about catch.

For catching, all feed came from us. So if she wanted what was in the bucket she had to stand half a metre from me, then a little closer every time until I was holding the bucket while she ate, then hold and touch, then stand by neck, by shoulder, slide undone headcollar on neck, down neck, carefully do up (over many days). String from headcollar, hold string while eating. Progressed to lead rope on. Multiple times per day, little feeds of chaff and beet, less hay during the day and more from us.

This is exactly what I did a few months ago with a feral 'stallion' I have in lol. He is rising 3 and due to have his NADS off in a month. He is now headcollared and working in the pen quite nicely.

But this mare refuses to eat if you're not a safe distance away. I'm worried she will starve herself out of fear of me....

 

[K8&Ted]

I actually think you need to force the issue to get a halter on her- if she needs vet help this is essential. Use oral sedation in feed if necessary. You need to handle the foal from the start

I've emailed NAF to see if their syringes are safe at this stage but no response as yet and don't want to give them too her if unsafe.
I do have the vet coming out tomorrow for vaccinations for the rest of my herd so will ask them as well for sedation.

 

[K8&Ted]

I think at this point (teats pointing out=imminent birth) you are just going to have to leave her be and hope for the best.
It's either that or wrestle a halter on her
Keep feeding and watering her regularly, has she foaled before do you know?

She is a dartmoor pony and we have been told she has been out there her whole life (she is 15yrs apparently). Seems to be a lot of discrepancies about her passport and history- another set of issues! No idea who the commoner was who owned her, who the stallion was in with the herd... very odd.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I've emailed NAF to see if their syringes are safe at this stage but no response as yet and don't want to give them too her if unsafe.
I do have the vet coming out tomorrow for vaccinations for the rest of my herd so will ask them as well for sedation.

I wouldn't bother with the naf calmer it won't be enough get something from the vet, I agree with mule just concentrate on getting her to have a head collar on feeding from you with buckets so at least if she gets in trouble you have a chance.

 

[Caol Ila]

In your shoes, I would also get some views from the Chronicle of the Horse forum, the American equivalent of this place.

Chronicle Forums

Online equestrian discussion forums hosted by the Chronicle of the Horse magazine.

forum.chronofhorse.com

There is a deep wealth of experience with mustangs over there. I would tap into that. If you can't be bothered with the faff of joining another forum, I don't mind posting on your behalf if you want to try them.

I think they run them through gates or races for worming, vaccination, etc.

The other thing is that my mare was pretty much unhandled when I bought her as a two-year old. She was from a reputable ( ) breeder, but while breeder interacted with the horses, she did not halter break them or handle their feet or anything. Anyway, filly turned out to be pregnant, and she foaled down about two months after I bought her. Basic Handling 101 had been going well, but a couple weeks before she foaled, she went back to being a bit wild and tricky to handle. Once the foal was on the ground, you could not get near her with a headcollar. None of the NH tricks worked. She reverted to a totally feral state to protect the baby and would not give in.

The horse is perfectly civilized now and ridden. She's the horse in my avatar.

In my limited experience of n=1, a feral or unhandled mare about to foal or one who has just foaled is in the worst frame of mind to learn how to be caught and handled. They are in full alert mode, highly attuned to danger, and as far as they are concerned, you are a predator. They will run themselves into the ground to defend themselves and their foal. I would definitely ask mustang people how they would handle your situation.

 

[honetpot]

I wouldn't try handling her if she is going to foal soon, what ever you do could be over ridden by fear. I would look to seen if you can borrow a calving gate, and get her used to standing in it to be fed, you do not have to use the head stock. A vet can then sedate her safely if needed. We made homemade stocks for AI, they walk in for food and then get shut in, with a back half door.

Ritchie Calving Gate 10'

Click & Collect Only.

www.bataltd.co.uk

I have one that divides my shed, and a 16hand + will walk underneath the open gate

 

[tda]

Also hill bred and lived out since, at that age, personally I would not even be keeping her in, the stress will be unbelievable for her
Do you have another older companion she could go out with or alongside

 

[K8&Ted]

I'm afraid I don't. My fields are wide and big with only natural overhanging shelter. Without being able to walk her between the separate sections, stabling is the only way to ensure hers and the foals safety.
Also, I don't believe she has spent her whole life on the moors- she acts like a horse who has been beaten up, not one who hasn't ever interacted with a human. She has access to a turnout pen off the stable but its not massive and not grassed.

 

[maya2008]

This won’t be her first foal then, and others on the moors will have come without any human help. Talk to your vets is what I would advise - mine were realistic and helpful.

I will warn you though that it’s even less fun handling once baby is born. First vaccs etc are easy, but then trying to catch mum while she is trying to keep the foal away from you is just a nightmare. Early days were fine - we handled the foal and got vaccs, passport done. Then just left it until weaning. Once weaned, it took a couple of weeks and the mum was good to handle in the stable, four more and you could catch her loose in a large field. Pregnant and nursing just sent her instincts sky high - once there was no longer a foal to worry about, she progressed far more quickly.

 

[Snow Falcon]

I think she's under enough pressure currently. Come in from the moors at her age and put in a stable. My mare who is semi feral would not be happy at that arrangement. I'm lucky that she has been handled since 5 months old, loads etc but she would not want to have her freedom curtailed, none of our forest run stock would. Have you got access to a pound?

 

[Auslander]

I understand that you are trying to do the right thing, but I think you need to take a step back and let her do things her way right now. This ain't her first rodeo, if she's come off the moors at 15, she will be very well versed at foaling outside without assistance, and where she has decided she feels safe and comfortable.
I get why you want to stable her, and do vet stuff to her, and feed her, etc etc - but it's not what she's used to, and is probably going to do more harm than good when she's about to drop. I'd get her back out, and let her be til she's had the foal - then start again with the admirable work you are doing to give her a good future.

 

[Barton Bounty]

The best thing you can do is observe, wading in will do more harm than good

 

[TheMule]

See, this is all well and good until something does go wrong and you lose the foal, the mare, or both, and you just have to stand there and watch it happen. Horses are notoriously bad at giving birth. You don’t know what she's in foal to and she could easily get into trouble that could be averted with swift intervention.
I agree you don’t want to stress a mare such late term but you have very little option and a bit of sedation to get some basics in place are not going to unduly stress her.

 

[Caol Ila]

When I first called the vet because I suspected Teen Mom was pregnant, the vet did not do a reproductive exam. She said she wasn't comfortable doing it because the horse didn't have much handling, and she did not want to sedate the horse because she said the sedation could trigger premature labour. It would have been preferable to know that foal was in the correct position and all was copacetic, but we had to rely on a few million years worth of evolution instead.

I was also advised by professionals (vet and YO, who had breeding experience) to let her get on with it and only intervene if absolutely necessary. They said that there was a significant risk of a young, inexperienced mare without much handling (and she'd had a lot more than OP's) rejecting her foal if humans stressed her out too much, and you really don't want that.

So we sat on camping chairs on the other side of the fence and watched. And luckily, a few million years worth of evolution did its thing.

Obviously, this is not ideal. Definitely not how I would do it if I was ever brain damaged enough to breed deliberately. But you do what you gotta do and hope for the best.

 

[stangs]

I think she's under enough pressure currently. Come in from the moors at her age and put in a stable. My mare who is semi feral would not be happy at that arrangement. I'm lucky that she has been handled since 5 months old, loads etc but she would not want to have her freedom curtailed, none of our forest run stock would. Have you got access to a pound?

This. If I were you, I’d be doing as much as possible to give her a lifestyle closer to what she’s used to, rather than trying to get her adapt to life as a domestic horse this late in the pregnancy game.

I expect she’s got much more experience with foaling that you do.

 

[paddy555]

Hi all, just looking for some tips and reassurance.

I recently bought a pregnant feral mare from a drift. Not my first pregnant but my first one that is wild. I brought her home 3 weeks ago.

Her udder is BIG but no waxing. Teats are chubby and pointing outwards.
We have lip curling, rolling, flank biting, tail swishing and belly kicking.
Id say 2 weeks left, max.

I brought her in from my handling pen during the snow fall last week and looking for ideas on how to get her used to handling for the impending vet visits.
I want her to be checked over after birth and start her vaccinations.
But of course, she isn't letting me within a metre of her.
She is getting better with the use of a feedbucket, but any sign of closer and she runs around scared.

I kind of feel I'm doing the right thing by not pushing her too quickly but I am worried about not being able to give her the correct health treatment. I feel its only going to get worse if she gets protective over the foal once it's on the ground.

I'm a natural horsemanship user, so a lot of low key energy, encouraging her to move away from me when I ask her too, etc.

I've got her on magic calmer to try and help, and I do have 3 syringes (which I am umm-ing and err-ing over using) just to get the initial contact over and done with. I have got her on the best feed I can afford so not looking for more ideas on diet.

I do have a camera on her 24/7 so I can watch things from a safe distance to not stress her out.

Any tips for first contact or links to videos would be great.

TIA,

This is exactly what I did a few months ago with a feral 'stallion' I have in lol. He is rising 3 and due to have his NADS off in a month. He is now headcollared and working in the pen quite nicely.

But this mare refuses to eat if you're not a safe distance away. I'm worried she will starve herself out of fear of me....

I've emailed NAF to see if their syringes are safe at this stage but no response as yet and don't want to give them too her if unsafe.
I do have the vet coming out tomorrow for vaccinations for the rest of my herd so will ask them as well for sedation.

She is a dartmoor pony and we have been told she has been out there her whole life (she is 15yrs apparently). Seems to be a lot of discrepancies about her passport and history- another set of issues! No idea who the commoner was who owned her, who the stallion was in with the herd... very odd.

I'm afraid I don't. My fields are wide and big with only natural overhanging shelter. Without being able to walk her between the separate sections, stabling is the only way to ensure hers and the foals safety.
Also, I don't believe she has spent her whole life on the moors- she acts like a horse who has been beaten up, not one who hasn't ever interacted with a human. She has access to a turnout pen off the stable but its not massive and not grassed.

to cover some of your points. I live on Dartmoor and have experience with these ponies, drifts, youngsters, mares handing etc etc.

a 3yo feral colt is very different from a 15 yo mare. The younger ones of either sex need handling immediately to get a headcollar, leading etc. they don't benefit from pussy footing around. A 15 yo mare is a totally different kettle of fish.

can I suggest that a vet checking her over, vaccinating her etc nor giving magic calmer is doing her any favours. She has managed 15 years producing many foals in harsh conditions on her own. All anyone checking her over at this stage is going to do is stress her.
She hasn't got you included in the birth plan. She does this alone, away from other horses in private.

She will no doubt be very protective of the foal. She mare and foal will need to be left alone. If a vet tries to check her over with her new foal she will be distraught.

Can I suggest that getting her on the best feed or even any feed is a very bad idea. She is feral mare. She isn't used to this feed, doesn't need it and one of the main problems when these ferals get into private homes is they get fat and laminitis.

I would feed her on hay, nothing else.

As far as handling at this late stage she will do best left alone, in a quiet place with no other ponies. If she has equine company when she foals it could well worry her. It is different on a herd with similar mares where she knows them to a domestic situation where at present she is probably terrified and would have no idea if she could trust any equine companions.

Whilst you are no doubt worried about her safety and the foal's she has managed perfectly well to have countless foals on her own. That is what she is used to. The outdoors.

Bear in mind not to let them near any electric fencing. Ours are notorious for going through it, or under it and with a mare and foal there would be serious panic.

She won't starve herself if you just let her out into space on her own with hay.

I doubt you will find her history and she was very probably foaled on the moor and been out there having foals ever since. It is doubtful you will ever find this info

I'm not sure why you don't think she was out there 15 years. She may well have been beaten up.
If she was out there 15 years she will have been gathered once a year, usually by men screaming their heads off on quad bikes, chased by dogs, herded into a yard, maybe put through a cattle crush, had her foal removed, being driven around yards etc and put back out, Eat sleep and repeat 15 times and you can work out why she may not like let alone trust humans and why she may act like a horse beaten up.

I guess she came chipped. Normal practice is to put them through a race and cattle crush for the vet to do this. Can you imagine how this terrifies a feral.

I had one who was terrified of yellow coats, another terrified of yard brooms. Didn't take long to work out how she was driven around.

what are you going to do with her after foaling and through the summer. These ponies get fat for a pastime on nothing. The foal will need some babies to play with. The mare will need kindly company so she doesn't feel intimidated.

The above isn't meant to sound harsh so I am sorry if it does. I have seen these rehomes not work out usually due to forcing the pony and expecting her to want to come to you, be with you and eat what is put in front of her. I appreciate the people rehoming are trying to do their best, best food, best care etc but they are ferals and all of this doesn't benefit them.



What she really wants is to be left alone with a bland basic diet to have her foal in peace. Then when the foal is a couple of months old bring them in and start working with the mare. The foal will be well grown and curious and you may well get at the mare through the foal.

Finally the most important thing with these ponies off the common is worms. I have never had one record less that 800epg. Some more than that. I would worm count and then get advice from the vet or somewhere like Westgate as to how to deal with it. Most of the ones off the common with high counts maintain a worm problem all their lives. My foal (also a BOGOF from a mare I took off the common) was wormed (along with it's mum) per vet's instructions and has for the last 10 years always recorded <50.

 

[paddy555]

I actually think you need to force the issue to get a halter on her- if she needs vet help this is essential. Use oral sedation in feed if necessary. You need to handle the foal from the start

no, no and again no. To force a feral mare you are going to have to be so dominant, so forceful and basically put her in a cattle crush to restrain her. What on earth do you think this is going to do to a terrified mare that you ever want to handle again. She will basically fight for her life, it might cause her to foal early, to lose the foal or to get hurt as she tries to jump over something to flee.
How on earth will you build trust with her if you insist on handling the foal from the start. To do this you will have to totally restrain her and shut her in. Her instinct will be so strong she will attempt to get back to the foal in any way she can.
You run the risk she will seriously injure herself. She will never let you near the foal again.



If she has managed to produce foals up until now which, if she was out on the common, she will have done then there is far less risk in leaving her alone than in forcing her into submission just because you think you may need the vet.

with a 15yo feral mare you have to go at her pace. You are working with a feral, you are not working with an unhandled domestic horse. She chooses the pace and some simply don't settle. You are asking a lot for some 15yo's to move into a domestic home with their freedom restricted and lifestyle chosen by humans. An older mare is very different for a 3yo colt and the other youngsters bought at pony sales.

You have to work with these older mares not against them.

See, this is all well and good until something does go wrong and you lose the foal, the mare, or both, and you just have to stand there and watch it happen. Horses are notoriously bad at giving birth. You don’t know what she's in foal to and she could easily get into trouble that could be averted with swift intervention.
I agree you don’t want to stress a mare such late term but you have very little option and a bit of sedation to get some basics in place are not going to unduly stress her.

she will be in foal to whichever stallion was out on that area of common although I don't really see why that is important.

 

[stangs]

If you don't mind me bumping, how did things end up going for you OP? Any baby pics?

 

[K8&Ted]

If you don't mind me bumping, how did things end up going for you OP? Any baby pics?

Hi, no she is still holding it hostage! But we have progressed to me being able to stroke her forehead while she is eating. May sound a bit poxy lol but I'll take the win at this stage! Had to suspend the bucket off my thumb and scratch with the fingers, then progressed to holding it with one hand and raising the other to her forehead. She is terrified of my hand... I can stroke her all over with a parelli stick, but the hand- BIG NOPE.

She has a massive bag and plugs in the ends, all the lip curling, extreme V drop to her belly, up and down, up and down, off her hay, on her hay... don't think she even knows when she will foal Maybe another week?

 

[stangs]

Bless her, she's massive. Fingers crossed for an easy foaling for you both x

 

[K8&Ted]

Thank you I will update as soon as she drops her foal. I cannot wait to see what comes out!

 

[Barton Bounty]

Hi, no she is still holding it hostage! But we have progressed to me being able to stroke her forehead while she is eating. May sound a bit poxy lol but I'll take the win at this stage! Had to suspend the bucket off my thumb and scratch with the fingers, then progressed to holding it with one hand and raising the other to her forehead. She is terrified of my hand... I can stroke her all over with a parelli stick, but the hand- BIG NOPE.

She has a massive bag and plugs in the ends, all the lip curling, extreme V drop to her belly, up and down, up and down, off her hay, on her hay... don't think she even knows when she will foal Maybe another week?

Progress is progress!

 

[Spotherisk]

Is she pure bred Dartmoor, there are greys on the Haytor common, if she’s from that area I’ll put a fiver on it being bay or greying out, if she’s from Fernworthy way I’m backing a skewbald!