Pregnant mare has become "dangerous"! Advice, PLEASE!!

[keeperscottage]

I've posted twice before about this situation because (1) since returning from stud, our mare had no brakes and (2) had anyone tried Blue Chip Karma on a pregnant mare. Several people suggested we just forgot about riding her and simply turned her away until after the foal was born, but, even in the field, she is totally "hyper"! My daughter carried on riding her, but she became a complete head case. A couple of examples of her behaviour........ going round a corner meant an excuse to gallop off after negotiating the corner, leaping around in the road and jumping in front of cars, never walking but prancing everywhere (and I'm not talking about jogging, I'm talking about launching herself in the air with all four feet off the ground!), humping in canter etc. There is a knack to riding this horse, which my daughter certainly has. The mare in question is a 16yo 16.2hh ex-point-to-pointer, not some old broken down thing, a winning mare with a successful winning point-to-point daughter. My friend, who used to own her, and still owns her daughter, is unable to help me as he sent her off to stud where she stayed until after the birth of her foal. Even in the field (which she shares with two other of our horses, an ex-point-to-pointer who is a very laid back 7yo 17hh gelding, and our 16 month old British Sports Horse), she is constantly "on the go". The woman who bred our BSH told me she would not put a pregnant mare with geldings, but I have no option. Last week, she corned our baby SH and he jumped over a five bar metal gate to escape! She now strikes out (struck out at my daughter yesterday who just happened to be standing near her), was rearing in the field today, and constantly trots around the field with head high and ears pricked for no apparent reason. Our baby Sports Horse has two cuts on his legs, and I'm not sure whether they're kicks or not, since they're quite low although my daughter is convinced they are, even though the mare and our baby used to be inseparable! I don't want to rush and take her shoes off because her feet are so crap without shoes and my farrier has worked hard to get them as good as they are, but I don't want to risk any kick injuries, particularly as her two companions are both extremely laid back and would not retaliate. I thought mares were supposed to mellow when pregnant not become horses from hell! My daughter now "hates" her (just the sort of thing I'd expect her to say - she loves her really!) and I can understand where she's coming from because she's not particularly easy to love at the moment! What I really want to know is, has anyone else come across this type of behaviour in pregnant mares? We're dreading the winter when she's bound to be even more of a handful! I really would like to hear other people's experiences. A friend has suggested I ring the stud as surely they're the best people to ask. However, if anyone has had a similar experience, I'd love to hear it and would like to know how long the behaviour lasted! Thanks!

 

[magic104]

What has your vet said? I have never heard/known a mare to behave quiet so bad. Is there anyway you could section part of the field off with electric fencing to keep her away from the boys? At least until you can sort her out.

 

[pocomoto]

I would be very careful in feeding calamatives to pregnant mares as often they contain herbs that cause contractions and carry warnings against feeding them to pregnant and lactating mares. How far gone is she?

My TB mare reabsorbed last summer, so I had her injected back into season. When we got back from the short journey home she was white with sweat and went really mental she launched herself at me and when she got out of the trailer laid her ears flat back. When turned out she attacked her yearling daughter who she dotes over normally, so much so that I had to take her daughter out of the field for a day or so. This was totally out of charater so I wonder if your mares problems are a hormonal inbalance of some kind.

 

[Maesfen]

I've never heard of one being so bloody minded before!

Personally, for peace of mind, I'd say 'go hang' and get those shoes off asap for safety's sake at least; some horses don't believe they're on holiday until the shoes come off! As long as you have them regularly trimmed, they shouldn't come to any harm; plenty of time to keep them in shape after the foal is weaned. I'd cut out all feed except hay if it's needed (as in no grass) because then she'll have to work to keep body and soul together and it won't do her system any harm either as long as she doesn't lose any weight. Brewer's Yeast is meant to be useful as a calmer, there's also Kossolian, old fashioned but brilliant for expectant mares.
Probably, in fact I would have already done it, it would be an idea to call the stud where she was previously and ask about any bad behaviour there, try to find what triggers it off. By the sound of it, she is becoming dangerous and no horse, whatever they are is worth being hurt for IMHO. If you feel she is that bad, perhaps it is time to terminate the pregnancy and put her back into work, she's obviously missing it although it would be a blow of course. Another option would be to winter her with another or more in foal mares, perhaps their calm behaviour would rub off on her?! Are there any studs that take boarders near you where she could go for a month to see if she improves? Another thing I'd also be doing is to get her tested by the vet, it could just be a hormonal imbalance or it could be something more sinister that has sparked this behaviour.
Either way, I do hope you can get her sorted, she sounds such a useful type to have as a brood, shame it doesn't seem to agree with her.

 

[oliverspal]

i think shes so proud shes going to be a mummy again and wants everyone to ponder to her every whim .seriously though as she was turned away last time there was probably a reason why .play safe take the shoes off and enjoy not riding through the bad weather this winter has to come

 

[keeperscottage]

Hi, Magic104! Sadly, electric tape is a definite no-no where I keep my nags. It would all be so easy, but alas, the farmer won't hear of it for any reason! He's non-horsy, although his wife used to ride point-to-pointers, her sister was extremely successful racing, her father was a p-to-p commentator and her mother still has a couple of pointers knocking around. However, they are of the opinion that you chuck 'em all out together and they'll sort themselves out.........! Not the case, I've found!

 

[keeperscottage]

Hi, Pocomoto! No, I checked with Blue Chip and they told me that Karma was perfectly safe to use with pregnant mares but, since we decided not to ride her until after the foal arrived, we put the calmer idea on the "back burner".

It was interesting to hear about your mare; I think our Lizzie is hormonal at the moment. She's so stunning to look at, but what a bitch!

 

[keeperscottage]

Hi, MFH-09! I've never heard of Kossolian - could you tell me more about it? (I'll try and Google it in any event.) I'd also be interested in the yeast. Lizzie is a super mare, stunning to look at, elegant, and normally has perfect manners! Apparently, she foaled without problem, but isn't very maternal - her daughter always calls to her when they meet out hunting, but our mare totally ignores her! I will definitely ring the stud; when I took her there in June, they remembered her from seven years ago! No, I couldn't bring myself to get rid of the foal and try again next year! If I can rent a field from a friend, I may buy a mobile field shelter and stick her out there with a lovely 13.2hh mare we have - she and Lizzie generally get on very well! Lizzie can go in the field shelter every night and I can put some slip rails across the front to keep her in so she will effectively be "stabled" at night, if you know what I mean! God, I thought this was all going to be SO easy!

Incidentally, she's currently turned out in a massive lush meadow so I'm not feeding her. Even our skinny 17hh lad, who we've been pumping full of Blue Chip, suddenly looks fit to explode! I await your post in response!

 

[magic104]

Breeding is hardly ever easy!! It would be a good idea to contact the stud, especially as they remember her! Good luck let us know how you get on.

 

[Fahrenheit]

What other feeds is she being fed at the moment? Have you got stables couldn't you rotate her turnout so they take turns to go out with the gelding? I would stop riding her, there doesn't seem to be any point in persisting to ride the mare when your daughter isn't enjoying it.

 

[Fahrenheit]

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, she's currently turned out in a massive lush meadow so I'm not feeding her. Even our skinny 17hh lad, who we've been pumping full of Blue Chip, suddenly looks fit to explode! I await your post in response!

[/ QUOTE ]

Answered my own question by reading more carefully doh!

Sounds like she got spring fever in autumn to me, my mares always go abit wacky when the spring grass comes through!!

 

[AmyMay]

I think that by simply removing her from the geldings, and putting her with another mare you will sort the problem out.

We never mix brood mares and geldings - and the odd occassion that they do come in to contact all hell breaks out. The mares hormones seem to run rampant whilst pregnant, especially in the first couple of months, and they can become quite aggressive.

I suspect that you will respond by saying that this is not an option for you as you are on livery - but if you are not able to separate your horses out now, how will you manage when the foal is born.

As for riding - again I wouldn't.

 

[alicep]

do you have stabling? could you do shifts with them i.e. mare out during the day, boys out at night? if you do have stabling how is lizzie in?

 

[Maesfen]

It's not the most detailed piece but will give you an idea of Kossolian.

Would she have to be 'put in' at night in a shelter, wouldn't it be easier and less stressful for her to wrap her up and let them use the shelter of their own volition (long word for this time of morning!) so apart from you feeding her in winter, she really would become natural and perhaps her maternal hormones would take over?!
I do feel, first point of call should be the stud and make sure you talk to the people who handled her all the time, not just an office secretary
http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod6.asp?pro...g=&offset=9

Also Brewers Yeast helps restore hind gut efficiency; a source of natural prebiotics. A Natural source of B group vitamins to correct deficiencies such as poor skin and coat, nervousness and loss of appetite. Essential for sturdy growth. Gold Label do it. also Simple Systems.

 

[S_N]

I can't add to the excellent advice already given, I just wanted to wish you luck and hope that she calms down soon.

Incidentally, my mare (due in April) is out with her yearling son (gelded) and until a week ago, was also with my semi-retired cob gelding. During her last pregancy, she was out with my last gelding. No probs at all!!

 

[reynold]

my mare isn't like the problems you've described but she does now lay her ears back and look 'menacing' to anyone other than me - yet she is normally a total sweetie.

It's as if she's already 'protecting baby' although it's not even born yet.

apart from the face pulling though she is completely dopey calm

 

[foxviewstud]

i would get in touch with your vet as it may be as others have said hormone imbalance they may be able to give her something to sort her out. have you tried to lunge her so she still gets exercise but you dont have the danger of riding her??? may not work but maybe an option?????

 

[milliepup]

We had a mare come to us to AI this year and once she was scanned in foal she turned from being very placid to the most horrible aggressive mare ever. Now she is approximately 3/4 months the hormones have settled down and she is back to normal.
Also had another mare that was like this for the first month or so and she even tried mounting all the other mares. Once her hormones had settled she returned to normal.

As others have said I would take the shoes off and just see what happens in a month or two.

Good luck,

 

[S_N]

Been thinking.............. If you have her hormone tested, it might be easily rectifiable by the vet prescribing regumate?? I'm not a vet and I'm not saying this is what she needs, but if she was mine, I'd certianly talk to my vet about this drug. It's widely used, but you do need to be exceptionally careful when handling and storing it!!

 

[amandaco2]

my mare also became a nutter to ride although she was fine out with her mare friend.i gave up after she got too dangerous on the roads!she was normalllt none spooky but she was just flying all over the palce at stupid things-like people getting in cars, where she would never ever even glance at that sort of things.
she did HATE the boys though even just leading past she was bouncing about all over the place.
maybe if you could turn out with some mares or send her to stud with some expectant mares?def take the shoes off if shes kicking

 

[Fahrenheit]

Regumate is used on mares with low progesterone levels for the first 3 months of pregnacy, low progesterone can cause them to reabsorb the pregnancy.

 

[S_N]

I've had mares that have been on regumate throughout their pregnancy - Off the top of my head I thought the standard was uptil 150 days.......... Maybe I'm getting my countries confused................

 

[keeperscottage]

Well, thank you everyone for your advice, opinions and experiences! I had her hind shoes taken off last week so there'll be no autumn hunting for her this year! When I brought her in for the farrier, she was a real soft sweetie, but yesterday when my daughter went tio get one of our other horses in she kicked out at our totally inoffensive yearlling, struck out at my daughter (again) and was thoroughly horrid! My daughter wants to separate her from the geldings and this is possible at the moment but some winter she'll need a stable and the field where she can go ouot with our pony mare doesn't have any stables, although I may be able to buy a mobile field shelter. A woman I do some work for (I'm a freelance groom) is going to Louella Stud tomorrow to collect her mare (weaned foal arriving next week!) who has had a foal by the same stallion that our mare is in foal to so I really must have a word with them about our girl! Hopefully things will sort themselves out and, once the foal arrives, all this wil be just a horrible memory!