"Pretty" vs Effective Riding

[iknowmyvalue]

I was thinking about this today, while watching some video my mum took of me riding the other week.

With certain horses/situations, is it better to ride a little messily but get the results? Or better to ride "prettily" and quietly?

Here's my situation. Now I'm naturally quite a quiet rider, on last horse could almost just think what I wanted and it would happen, never really needed to "tell" her with jumping etc. What I've been finding with H is that he needs things to be much bigger and clearer to get the reaction we want, he can do it and he will, but the riding that gets it there isn't always pretty. Video in question was of a lesson recently where we were doing combinations/grids, and trying to get him really thinking forward and taking the bigger distance rather than chipping in (as he is naturally lazy and not always off the leg). In order to get the reaction we wanted, I was having to do a bit of a pony club kicking between the fences to really "tell" him I wanted the bigger stride (otherwise he'd just lose all momentum as we went down the line) I can imagine if I posted it anywhere I'd get a few comments about my riding! When I was riding "louder" he was jumping so much better and really going somewhere, which is what we wanted and which gave a great feeling, but watching the video back makes me cringe a bit with my riding and position! Of course the eventual aim will be to get him responding off a smaller leg aid and be more forward thinking and responsive in general so I wont need to ride like that. We are working with escalating aids, and it is getting so much better, but just not quite there yet... Maybe I'll just have to put up with riding a bit like that for now until he really starts to understand what I'm asking with a smaller aid...

 

[Under-the-radar]

I'm not a jumper - so can't really tell you about that side of it - but I can tell you about my dressage attempts at this

IMO - the majority of people will need to go through a "messy" stage to learn how to ride a certain movement. For me, a BIG messy period was when I was teaching my older horse lateral work. She had never done it before, I had never done it before - creates a LOT of messy riding. But I needed to go through that stage in order that I could learn to refine the aids and then ride them with a much more discreet aid. I am now teaching my young horse lateral work - we are having a little bit of a "messy" period just at the moment - no where near as bad as it was with my older horse, but I have that much more knowledge to help my young horse.

Most people will be aiming to have the quiet effective seat that we see when watching some of our top riders - but just sitting "prettily" isn't going to mean that you are riding effectively, or that the horse is performing the task that it is supposed to.

Incidentally - despite the large volume of scrappy riding that my older horse put up with (bless her - she puts up with a lot!!), she came out the other side and survived to tell the tale! Now that I am starting work with my younger horse, it is amazing how much more quickly we are progressing because I battled through with my older horse. Older horse taught me so many many lessons - which I don't think I can ever repay to her (although I do try with the amount of polos she gets to eat!!).

For your situation I would persevere with your "loud" riding for a time. I had to ride my young horse quite "loudly" for a couple of months last summer to train the responses that I wanted. I would add that "loud" riding is a good analogy as it is an over emphasis of the aids - not rough or poor riding - but just over stating the facts as it were.

 

[blitznbobs]

Think of it the same as anything else.. when your horse is learning it may need BIG signals for some things - sitting there quietly but in effectively is not riding it's sitting... the more advanced you (and your horse)get you start to signal smaller cos that small aid is now all you need to get the reaction. Hence everything looks like you're not doing anything. Watch one of the top riders ride v carefully. They are rarely doing nothing - the signals are all there at every change of pace, half halt, change of direction but they are tiny... because the horse is trained but training will involve big signals at times (and a lot of the time in the beginning.) so yes good riding can be both messy and neat but neat without results to me is not riding at all.

 

[Annagain]

Agree with others about needing to be 'loud' or going through a messy phase when horses are learning but it can also depend on the horse. Both of mine are 21 so can't blame a lack of experience for their foibles. If I rode A the way I ride M he'd carry on doing exactly what he wanted and totally ignoring me. If I rode M the way I ride A he'd have a nervous breakdown. People who watch me ride think M is a much easier horse as I don't look like I'm doing much but I find A just as easy as I don't have to think about toning anything down, I can be as 'loud' as I like and not offend him! With M it's a constant balancing act - too heavy a hand in the half halt and he'll do a downward transition, too much leg and he'll shoot forward. Asking for medium trot has to be such gradual build or he'll canter etc. My sister and I were the same growing up. Mum would only have to suggest to her she might like to lay the table, do her homework or go to bed whereas she practically had to stand over me forcing me to do it. My sister was the one who had all the tantrums though!

I imagine he'll get used to the striding and won't need the pony club kicks the more you do but he may not. Archie never has!

 

[Fred66]

The occasional "boot" is OK, but you must be sure it doesn't become a habit else he will become dead to the leg. Try spurs and whip as well so that you reinforce your leg message.

 

[SpringArising]

Weird you posted this as I was thinking about it the other day.

Can you be a good rider without being stylish? Is a good rider a 'pretty' rider, or an effective one? What even makes a good rider?

I often see those at the top and think 'Eek! They're not very nice to watch', but they're clearly skilled.

I'm not into dressage but SJ wise I've always admired Pippa Funnell, Beezie Madden and Mary King. They have what I would describe as a 'timeless' style.

 

[meesha]

My chap wasn't great at slowing down after jumps, instructor told me to lean back using my weight and take a clear pull but release immediately once he slowed, definitely not pretty but flipping well worked, massive difference in just one session as he started to get the idea and slowed each time with less oomph required from me!

 

[millikins]

Weird you posted this as I was thinking about it the other day.

Can you be a good rider without being stylish? Is a good rider a 'pretty' rider, or an effective one? What even makes a good rider?

I often see those at the top and think 'Eek! They're not very nice to watch', but they're clearly skilled.

I'm not into dressage but SJ wise I've always admired Pippa Funnell, Beezie Madden and Mary King. They have what I would describe as a 'timeless' style.

It's odd that you include Pippa Funnell as my thoughts on opening this thread were PF is one I'd pick as an extremely good and effective rider but not a very stylish one

 

[meesha]

If you want stylish has to be William fox Pitt ! Long limbs help but he never appears to move!!!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Watch the jockeys at Cheltenham this week. You will see every kind of riding - effective, stylish riding, stylish but useless, effective but messy etc. These guys are the best at their sport and some still ride a finish like a sack of spuds on a trampoline!

 

[millikins]

Watched John Francombe do a demo schooling round on C4 once, so stylish, whereas AP is a messy b*gger but obviously effective.

 

[blood_magik]

Personally, I'd like to be both but I'll take effective over pretty any day. I'd like to think that effective eventually gives way to pretty, though.

On the subject of not-so-stylish riders, Roger Yves Bost's lower leg over fences always makes me cringe but he was European champion at one point so it obviously works for him.

 

[asterope]

Watched John Francombe do a demo schooling round on C4 once

I've always loved watching Francome do those charity showjumping events - he has the softest hands!

 

[Bernster]

Personally, I'd like to be both but I'll take effective over pretty any day. I'd like to think that effective eventually gives way to pretty, though.

On the subject of not-so-stylish riders, Roger Yves Bost's lower leg over fences always makes me cringe but he was European champion at one point so it obviously works for him.

Brilliant. Just looked him up and some of the pics are bonkers! Def not pretty but agree clearly must be effective.

This one is def not pretty. Not sure about effective either, although we did get round clear ��

 

[SpringArising]

On the subject of not-so-stylish riders, Roger Yves Bost's lower leg over fences always makes me cringe but he was European champion at one point so it obviously works for him.

Never heard of him until you mentioned. That's one heck of a technique!

 

[blitznbobs]

Reminds me of Annette Lewis .... good boy Tutein... I miss that pair.

 

[Bernster]

Reminds me of Annette Lewis .... good boy Tutein... I miss that pair.

Yes, the frog technique!

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Interesting replies. I had also thought about some event riders you see who are definitely less than pretty but clearly very skilled! And of course hunting is very much that style doesn't matter as long as you get to the other side! I guess it's a case of riding the horse underneath you to allow them to go their best.

Brilliant photos of that SJ rider, it's certainly a unique style! Bernster, yes that's pretty much what I look like in some of the video! It worked but wasn't beautiful!

Of course the aim is to ride like Michael Jung or WFP, who I love to watch! But on a wobbly, spooky 6yo who doesn't always know what to do with his legs it's not always possible

This thing doesn't let me quote for some reason but Fred66, of course. We're working on getting him to go off a smaller aid but he sometimes needs that extra reminder! Usually after a few times he "gets" it and starts going nicely forward without the need for any booting. It's just a very different style of riding as with R, any kind of booting would have earned you a hefty buck or perhaps her jumping out of the arena (with or without you still on board)

 

[Lintel]

I'd rather be a good messy rider than a pretty rider that can only ride horses that will go prettily!

Being pretty only gets you so far in life!!

 

[windand rain]

you see an awful lot of pretty but ineffective riders in the show ring it is surprising in some cases they get away with it but then some of the horses are schooled to automaton status

 

[ponies4ever]

always go with effective. I train with an international eventer and I think her favourite phrase is "boot it" so you're alright to flap a bit i think if it gets his attention

 

[Illusion100]

Do what gets the job done! Everything should be a work in progress, refinement always comes at a later stage once communication is clear, concise and understood.

Much better to have a few 'ugly duckling' moments and get the desired effect than sit pretty and let it fall apart. IMO anyway.

 

[SpringArising]

I train with an international eventer and I think her favourite phrase is "boot it"

She sounds nice.