Preventing stress triggers in my veteran

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi all, finally posting here because I am at the point where I need to find the right solution (for good) and would love to know if anyone has had any success

I have a 27yo pure bred Arab gelding who I bought when he was 4. As most Arab owners will understand, he is as beautiful as he is enigmatic, and by enigmatic I mean he is a complete diva. He knows he is adored and he knows how to get exactly what he wants.

For years he has always been triggered when he can’t get what he wants e.g if he’s in and wants to be out he’ll squeal and bronc round his stable, if he’s out and wants in, he’ll do the same but at much greater speed and add in a charge round / hard stops etc

I have now been rehabbing him for 7 months from a superficial flexor injury which he did during an episode of this, demanding to be brought in from the field in autumn last year. Given the severity of the damage at the time, we have made excellent progress and the vet is confident about his prognosis - even suggesting I start riding him again soon! To add, my boy is 100% still all about life, so whilst he wants to be here, I’ll keep doing my best to fix him!

Thanks to my YO he’s been on small scale turn out since May, which has been brilliant for him, but this can’t be for the rest of his days. I also don’t want to go back to the in/out tantrums as we’ll end up back at square one!

Has anyone successfully transitioned to a ‘free range’, less routine orientated life, and eradicated this trigger type behaviour? I’m thinking sort of small herd / open stable choose to go in out lifestyle. Obviously not sure I can find such a perfect solution but before I try (and I’m willing to do so), I’d like to know if removing the barriers will work.

I have studied retirement and track liveries but there is nothing near me and our bond is too deep for me to send him away

Would love to hear any success stories or other ideas to help me figure it out!

 

[Caol Ila]

My old horse could be a terrible fencewalker/boxwalker when the routine wasn't to her liking or a yard had the wrong juju. I never knew all her triggers. One of the yards we stayed at put them on 24/7 turnout for the summer, and she was not happy about that.

I don't know if she would have been more settled if there had been a field shelter, or if it had been in a place with reliably good, dry weather (not Glasgow).

I accepted that she was not a candidate for retirement in a field and kept her in the routine and at the yard where she was happiest. PTS at age 28, so she did alright. But I swore I would never get something that neurotic again. There's a few studies out there suggesting that this kind of stereotypic behaviour around stress/geography/routine is related to early/traumatic weaning. And one thing I 100% know about my current two horses is that they were not weaned early or traumatically.

 

[Nickynackynoo]

My old horse could be a terrible fencewalker/boxwalker when the routine wasn't to her liking or a yard had the wrong juju. I never knew all her triggers. One of the yards we stayed at put them on 24/7 turnout for the summer, and she was not happy about that.

I don't know if she would have been more settled if there had been a field shelter, or if it had been in a place with reliably good, dry weather (not Glasgow).

I accepted that she was not a candidate for retirement in a field and kept her in the routine and at the yard where she was happiest. PTS at age 28, so she did alright. But I swore I would never get something that neurotic again. There's a few studies out there suggesting that this kind of stereotypic behaviour around stress/geography/routine is related to early/traumatic weaning. And one thing I 100% know about my current two horses is that they were not weaned early or traumatically.

That’s a fascinating theory. Although I didn’t know her, my horse was bred by a well known Arab breeder who has more recently been at the centre of one of the largest animal cruelty convictions secured by the RSPCA. On this basis I can assume anything could have happened before I bought him at the age of 4!

Really appreciate your honesty in that you didn’t manage to find a solution. Staying out is also firmly in my view, and I also accept we may have it as good as it will ever be - as long as he is happy!

100% also share the view about any future equines. It is quite simply exhausting to live with this level of neurosis! Also stealing the term ‘juju’ lol

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

That’s a fascinating theory. Although I didn’t know her, my horse was bred by a well known Arab breeder who has more recently been at the centre of one of the largest animal cruelty convictions secured by the RSPCA. On this basis I can assume anything could have happened before I bought him at the age of 4!

Really appreciate your honesty in that you didn’t manage to find a solution. Staying out is also firmly in my view, and I also accept we may have it as good as it will ever be - as long as he is happy!

100% also share the view about any future equines. It is quite simply exhausting to live with this level of neurosis! Also stealing the term ‘juju’ lol

Was he bred by the Peels?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I do think that sometimes we can cause this kind of anxiety by keeping horses in very strict routines, my friend has a mare she goes out at exactly the same time every day and comes in the same time, so the horse is conditioned to this so I have seen her running about abd rearing at the gate even if she is left out a little bit later than normal.

I keep mine at home in no set routine so my horses don't really anticipate coming in being fed because it's different every day, I think its hard to just suddenly do this method if the horse is used to a set routine though, I suppose if you moved the horse and put a different approach in place from the off it would be easier.

 

[meleeka]

My old mare sounds very similar. There’s no way she’d cope with a yard environment with horses coming and going. She lives in a small herd on my own land and and pleases herself. She does like to be in overnight in the winter, so I keep the others in the yard and just shut her door, without bolting it. If she wants to come out she can, but she’s only done that a couple of times when I’ve been unavoidably later in the morning.

 

[Nickynackynoo]

Was he bred by the Peels?

Haworth Arabians

 

[Nickynackynoo]

My old mare sounds very similar. There’s no way she’d cope with a yard environment with horses coming and going. She lives in a small herd on my own land and and pleases herself. She does like to be in overnight in the winter, so I keep the others in the yard and just shut her door, without bolting it. If she wants to come out she can, but she’s only done that a couple of times when I’ve been unavoidably later in the morning.

This sounds lovely. It’s kind of the ideal I see in my mind, although achieving this in reality is very much a task on its own

 

[Nickynackynoo]

I do think that sometimes we can cause this kind of anxiety by keeping horses in very strict routines, my friend has a mare she goes out at exactly the same time every day and comes in the same time, so the horse is conditioned to this so I have seen her running about abd rearing at the gate even if she is left out a little bit later than normal.

I keep mine at home in no set routine so my horses don't really anticipate coming in being fed because it's different every day, I think its hard to just suddenly do this method if the horse is used to a set routine though, I suppose if you moved the horse and put a different approach in place from the off it would be easier.

You are spot on. It’s 100% a result of being in a solid routine and then it’s been doubly reinforced by me reacting to fix the situation when he has his ‘moments’ / is triggered, but honestly it’s really difficult to ignore and this has always been to stop him hurting himself etc. I know there is no reversing this now but wondering if that fresh start / freedom of choice lifestyle helps to eradicate it in any way

 

[Caol Ila]

I do think that sometimes we can cause this kind of anxiety by keeping horses in very strict routines, my friend has a mare she goes out at exactly the same time every day and comes in the same time, so the horse is conditioned to this so I have seen her running about abd rearing at the gate even if she is left out a little bit later than normal.

I keep mine at home in no set routine so my horses don't really anticipate coming in being fed because it's different every day, I think its hard to just suddenly do this method if the horse is used to a set routine though, I suppose if you moved the horse and put a different approach in place from the off it would be easier.

While I mostly agree, some horses (certainly mine and potentially the OP's) force your hand and shoehorn you into that strict routine due to stuff that happened to them way before you were in the picture. Can you give the horse Prozac? Apparently not, so you do what you gotta do to keep them from doing self-harming stereotypies as much as you can.

My horse's fencewalking varied depending on the yard. It was on a scale, from didn't happen at all, to total f*cking nightmare. Somewhere in between was she would do it, but semi-predictably. At her previous yard, for example, the YO brought all the horses in from turnout starting at 3:45 sharp. During the summer, my horse was pretty easy (didn't happen at all), but during the winter, she would usually kick off fencewalking between 2 and 3. YO would not, under any circumstances, bring in early. He made a point of not even catching her first. I engineered my life so I could fetch her at 2/3pm, or a friend could. The horse was also a poor doer; if she was walking a lot, she started looking like an RSPCA case pretty quickly.

YO always gave me the evil eye; he had the view that the horse was basically attention-seeking, and by bringing her in early, you were rewarding the behaviour, making it worse. He thought if you left her to it, she would learn that it did not get her anywhere and stop. I knew from years of owning this horse and staying at various yards in various countries that this was not remotely true. Once she started, she was like an addict and sure as hell not going to stop until someone moved her to where she wanted to be moved. In other words, your choice was between pacing for 10-20 minutes, or pacing for hours and hours.

I still stayed at that place far longer than I should have done. Moving was like Russian Roulette. I'd come from a yard where she paced randomly, all the time, and there was no obvious trigger or way to predict it or contain it. I reckoned that a yard where you could somewhat control it with timing was an improvement.

After we left that yard, we moved to one I thought would work well because it was layed out in a way that I thought would not be triggering. I was wrong. Within three days, the YO phoned me, telling me that the horse would not stop pacing, and she needed to be off the premises ASAP. "We cannot help your horse," she said, which was fair, but sort of funny because they advertised themselves as specializing in 'problem horses.' I'd forewarned them about my horse, and she'd said, "We've had some tough horses here. Trust me, your horse is not that tough." Well, she clearly was. I whisked her out of there and brought her to the place where my horses live now, also forewarning them. The yard manager and staff ended up thinking I was nuts because the horse was calm and content from day 1. The yard just had the right vibe.

If schedules are very predictable, any horse, no matter how well-adjusted, can get stressed by changes in routine. I hear that. I keep my current two guessing as much as possible, within the confines of my schedule and yard rules about turnout times. But some horses have a serious screw loose, and you have to adapt to their needs, throwing everything you think you know or believe out the window if you have to. They haven't read the same manual, or the HHO forum.

 

[Goldenstar]

I had a 2 horses like this one was a lovely mare the drama when she had been out long enough was scary and although she never injured herself she easily could have done .
The other was as mad as a box of frogs he would live out alone in awful weather while everyone else is stabled then just demand to come in and behave like he was stabled all the time .
The first demands where all the day to day while the others was more of a long term thinker the second one settled the first did not she would never have lived out safely.
When she retired I PTS rather than breed from her despite her being beautiful and talentEd.
It’s very difficult most people can’t be there at the yard all the time .
So you just have to manage as best you can I was lucky my mare loved stables so I could keep her safe by stabling she did improve but would never live fully out .
I would certainly try 24hr out type lifestyle with yours it would not have worked with mine well it might if the field had been completely enclose so she could see or hear a human , these horses are very hard work .

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Haworth Arabians

I do remember them as well now quite a few Arab breeders have been involved in cruelty charges over the years. So sad

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You are spot on. It’s 100% a result of being in a solid routine and then it’s been doubly reinforced by me reacting to fix the situation when he has his ‘moments’ / is triggered, but honestly it’s really difficult to ignore and this has always been to stop him hurting himself etc. I know there is no reversing this now but wondering if that fresh start / freedom of choice lifestyle helps to eradicate it in any way

I think if you went to a different place you could possibly change it especially if the horse then has the choice to come in or stay out it rather than relying on you.

I have Arab's they are so clever they can be demanding and I can see how I could easily end up being personal slaves to them both

 

[vetsbestfriend]

My 25 year old TB gelding is the same. He has an absolute fear of being left out in the field if those nearest to him are taken in. He is fine going out there even if they are not there, but if he has it in his head that it is coming in time, he will run up and down and get in a right state if other people start fetching in.

I have never left him out alone, and never will do and always work with other owners at the yard so I can be there the same time as them. But my issues mainly arise when someone comes earlier than they told me (i.e. 3.30 pm instead of the 7 pm I had been told!) and a few weeks ago someone got their horse out of the next door field which caused him to get in a real state. He still has that in his head now and even when he sees this person's car arriving starts panicking that they will leave him on his own again, even if I am there in the field with him poo picking.

He is definitely getting more insecure with age, but obviously more prone now to taking a lot longer to recover from strains and sore muscles from running around, sharp turns and being silly.

I am just now turning up a lot earlier than others and mooch around the yard until time to bring in. I don't want me or him to be a burden to others, but can't risk that someone turns up hours earlier than they told me they would so he gets in a real state.

 

[Caol Ila]

My 25 year old TB gelding is the same. He has an absolute fear of being left out in the field if those nearest to him are taken in. He is fine going out there even if they are not there, but if he has it in his head that it is coming in time, he will run up and down and get in a right state if other people start fetching in.

I have never left him out alone, and never will do and always work with other owners at the yard so I can be there the same time as them. But my issues mainly arise when someone comes earlier than they told me (i.e. 3.30 pm instead of the 7 pm I had been told!) and a few weeks ago someone got their horse out of the next door field which caused him to get in a real state. He still has that in his head now and even when he sees this person's car arriving starts panicking that they will leave him on his own again, even if I am there in the field with him poo picking.

He is definitely getting more insecure with age, but obviously more prone now to taking a lot longer to recover from strains and sore muscles from running around, sharp turns and being silly.

I am just now turning up a lot earlier than others and mooch around the yard until time to bring in. I don't want me or him to be a burden to others, but can't risk that someone turns up hours earlier than they told me they would so he gets in a real state.

It's a nightmare, isn't it? And you wish that other owners would be more helpful with helping you manage your difficult horse, but they have their own lives, their own horses, their own sh1t, and it's understandable that they don't. It just sucks for you and your horse.

The movement of other horses was one of my horse's triggers (but far from the only one). During weekdays, when most people did not ride in the middle of the day, she would usually start pacing around 3. But weekends were a pain because other owners would be up at all sorts of random times, collecting their horses from the paddocks. She could kick off a lot earlier than 3 if it was a particularly busy weekend. And there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't leave her in, either, because if she was in by herself during the morning or early afternoon, she would run laps in her stable.

One thing that helped her -- and this probably won't help everyone with a neurotic horse -- was being at a busier yard. Really. My current yard has 90 horses, and when I was in the US, we boarded at a couple places with circa 60 horses. The pacing wasn't an out-of-control problem at these large barns. My theory is that a 60-90 horse yard has a constant buzz of activity. Sure, there's more at the weekends, but there are always horses and people moving around no matter what day of the week it is. I think my horse found that easier to deal with than the activity patterns at a small, quiet yard, where it's totally dead during the week, then a flurry of people and horses scurrying about at the weekends.

 

[Nickynackynoo]

My 25 year old TB gelding is the same. He has an absolute fear of being left out in the field if those nearest to him are taken in. He is fine going out there even if they are not there, but if he has it in his head that it is coming in time, he will run up and down and get in a right state if other people start fetching in.

I have never left him out alone, and never will do and always work with other owners at the yard so I can be there the same time as them. But my issues mainly arise when someone comes earlier than they told me (i.e. 3.30 pm instead of the 7 pm I had been told!) and a few weeks ago someone got their horse out of the next door field which caused him to get in a real state. He still has that in his head now and even when he sees this person's car arriving starts panicking that they will leave him on his own again, even if I am there in the field with him poo picking.

He is definitely getting more insecure with age, but obviously more prone now to taking a lot longer to recover from strains and sore muscles from running around, sharp turns and being silly.

I am just now turning up a lot earlier than others and mooch around the yard until time to bring in. I don't want me or him to be a burden to others, but can't risk that someone turns up hours earlier than they told me they would so he gets in a real state.

I feel you! Yes I would expect a very similar reaction from my boy. Luckily we have a rule where no horse should be left alone on our yard, my problem comes if my boy sees other start to come in he starts - especially once we are at the end of summer. And asking everyone to bring my horse in before their own (even when there are others still out) is the but I can’t control. Exhausting!!

 

[Nickynackynoo]

It's a nightmare, isn't it? And you wish that other owners would be more helpful with helping you manage your difficult horse, but they have their own lives, their own horses, their own sh1t, and it's understandable that they don't. It just sucks for you and your horse.

The movement of other horses was one of my horse's triggers (but far from the only one). During weekdays, when most people did not ride in the middle of the day, she would usually start pacing around 3. But weekends were a pain because other owners would be up at all sorts of random times, collecting their horses from the paddocks. She could kick off a lot earlier than 3 if it was a particularly busy weekend. And there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't leave her in, either, because if she was in by herself during the morning or early afternoon, she would run laps in her stable.

One thing that helped her -- and this probably won't help everyone with a neurotic horse -- was being at a busier yard. Really. My current yard has 90 horses, and when I was in the US, we boarded at a couple places with circa 60 horses. The pacing wasn't an out-of-control problem at these large barns. My theory is that a 60-90 horse yard has a constant buzz of activity. Sure, there's more at the weekends, but there are always horses and people moving around no matter what day of the week it is. I think my horse found that easier to deal with than the activity patterns at a small, quiet yard, where it's totally dead during the week, then a flurry of people and horses scurrying about at the weekends.

wow my boy is exactly the same! We have around 17 horses here, plus 2 donkeys who he is obsessed with.

In some ways having had him in on rest recently has been manageable. I leave small ‘interval nets’ and a treat ball outside so that when he has a moment people can distract him and throw something in. But it took him making his injury 10 x worse and setting us far back before I could get people to help with that. The attitude before had been very much, “if you start that he’ll expect it all the time” I was amazed by how many people were happy to just let him have a tantrum as they saw it. Then as soon as I’d arrive they’d enjoy telling me all about how bad he’d been ????

 

[Nickynackynoo]

While I mostly agree, some horses (certainly mine and potentially the OP's) force your hand and shoehorn you into that strict routine due to stuff that happened to them way before you were in the picture. Can you give the horse Prozac? Apparently not, so you do what you gotta do to keep them from doing self-harming stereotypies as much as you can.

My horse's fencewalking varied depending on the yard. It was on a scale, from didn't happen at all, to total f*cking nightmare. Somewhere in between was she would do it, but semi-predictably. At her previous yard, for example, the YO brought all the horses in from turnout starting at 3:45 sharp. During the summer, my horse was pretty easy (didn't happen at all), but during the winter, she would usually kick off fencewalking between 2 and 3. YO would not, under any circumstances, bring in early. He made a point of not even catching her first. I engineered my life so I could fetch her at 2/3pm, or a friend could. The horse was also a poor doer; if she was walking a lot, she started looking like an RSPCA case pretty quickly.

YO always gave me the evil eye; he had the view that the horse was basically attention-seeking, and by bringing her in early, you were rewarding the behaviour, making it worse. He thought if you left her to it, she would learn that it did not get her anywhere and stop. I knew from years of owning this horse and staying at various yards in various countries that this was not remotely true. Once she started, she was like an addict and sure as hell not going to stop until someone moved her to where she wanted to be moved. In other words, your choice was between pacing for 10-20 minutes, or pacing for hours and hours.

I still stayed at that place far longer than I should have done. Moving was like Russian Roulette. I'd come from a yard where she paced randomly, all the time, and there was no obvious trigger or way to predict it or contain it. I reckoned that a yard where you could somewhat control it with timing was an improvement.

After we left that yard, we moved to one I thought would work well because it was layed out in a way that I thought would not be triggering. I was wrong. Within three days, the YO phoned me, telling me that the horse would not stop pacing, and she needed to be off the premises ASAP. "We cannot help your horse," she said, which was fair, but sort of funny because they advertised themselves as specializing in 'problem horses.' I'd forewarned them about my horse, and she'd said, "We've had some tough horses here. Trust me, your horse is not that tough." Well, she clearly was. I whisked her out of there and brought her to the place where my horses live now, also forewarning them. The yard manager and staff ended up thinking I was nuts because the horse was calm and content from day 1. The yard just had the right vibe.

If schedules are very predictable, any horse, no matter how well-adjusted, can get stressed by changes in routine. I hear that. I keep my current two guessing as much as possible, within the confines of my schedule and yard rules about turnout times. But some horses have a serious screw loose, and you have to adapt to their needs, throwing everything you think you know or believe out the window if you have to. They haven't read the same manual, or the HHO forum.

This reminds me of when my YO used to ask her partner to bring in and because he was less experienced, when my boy would start, he would refuse to get him saying he was dangerous. The only danger he poses is to himself but I can see why it appears scary to others. It’s all nostrils and speed! Stupidly - He also gets worse the closer you get to helping him - like if he sees you approaching the field. And when he’s at the point of no return he has this very recognisable deep call, which tells me he is worried. It’s definitely not tantrum, he expresses real anxiety

 

[Fransurrey]

Years ago I took on an Arab cross who was like this, but rearing was his thing. Very neurotic and 'thrived on routine', except I didn't really have one. He could still be a diva out on rides, but in the field he was absolutely fine with an open stable in the winter (shared with my other ponies) and in summer was grass kept on summer grazing. I didn't even have a fixed time of visiting (depended on work). Any chance of grass livery with shelters in your area?

 

[Nickynackynoo]

Years ago I took on an Arab cross who was like this, but rearing was his thing. Very neurotic and 'thrived on routine', except I didn't really have one. He could still be a diva out on rides, but in the field he was absolutely fine with an open stable in the winter (shared with my other ponies) and in summer was grass kept on summer grazing. I didn't even have a fixed time of visiting (depended on work). Any chance of grass livery with shelters in your area?

Thank you .. This is what I’m thinking and wanted to know if anyone had success. Maybe I need ro explore trying 1st - like send him on a holiday?? I’m reluctant to give up a stable on a yard where I know he is 90% settled, taking a leap that doesn’t work being stuck in a cycle of moving an older boy around hence doing my research