Preventing trade in stolen saddles

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SadKen

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Another theft in our area (Cheshire/North East Wales) of saddles in the last couple of days - loads of yards have been done over and lost all their tack in the last 2-3 months. This yard lost a lot of high quality tack which will be difficult to replace (as all well-fitting tack is). My saddle is insured but getting another one that fits, quickly, would inevitably be problematic.

It's really time efforts were made to stop this. I was thinking that maybe it's time that saddles were 'passported'. The saddle has the number stamped on it somewhere obvious. You get a document of ownership from the maker with the number on it. You can verify it against a database of saddles, update when you buy one second hand, and get the original verified document from the seller. OK some people are still going to buy stolen goods, but most of us don't want to. Thoughts?
 
My tack is all marked with my postcode done by the police (I think, it was a while ago!) Who came to our yard free of charge. No document though so that's in interesting idea... Will be trying to find out who did it so when I change saddles I can keep the same service.

The only difficulty I can forsee with the postcode is selling on so a one off code seems like a more practical solution although trickier to implement.
 
Yeah I think it'd have to be a number stamp relating to the verifying document with the number of the saddle on (as you wouldn't want someone else's postcode on your nice saddle!). And it'd have to be somewhere where it'd wreck the saddle if it was removed or changed. Auctioneers and ebay could commit to verifying as well. Just think the postcode mark isn't enough of a deterrent as most people buying 2nd hand wouldn't be able to check whether tack from that postcode was stolen, and the dodgy seller would probably just say they'd moved house.
 
I think the ability to remove numbers might be too easy.
I think postcode marking only really helps with regards to it being an additional identifying mark if the police find it for return. Mines on a saddle flap but that would be easily enough replaced should you wish.
 
TotalMadgeness said:
You can data tag saddles with 'invisible' dots which are linked to a database. So makes it easy to transfer to a new owner legitimately.
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I didn't know this existed as I was just thinking how a data base system would work! I have my horses at home and used to keep my tack in the garage but I keep it indoor now it's much safer, I used to take my tack home every night when I had them on livery.
 
Pinkvboots said:
The only way to really stop it is if every saddle gets registered somewhere and you can only sell it on with the necessary information, almost like a log book type of thing it's bloody crazy though to have to go to such lengths.
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Yeah this is kinda what I was thinking to be honest! With high value tack I almost think it's becoming worthwhile - we have had so many professional break-ins lately that I would actually pay a little bit more to subscribe to this if it meant that potential purchasers of a stolen saddle could check for themselves before buying it 2nd hand.

The problem with the datatag thing is that your average second hand purchaser isn't going to have access to check the microdots when looking at buying a saddle; it only helps when the police are trying to match recovered stolen items with the owner. The problem is in identifying the item as stolen in the first place if it is sold via facebook, auction etc.

A logbook type thing would enable second hand buyers to quickly check if it's legit. That means we could all opt out of buying nicked saddles (by accident) and the market for them would reduce.
 
It could be a bit like the scheme with caravans which are CRIS registered.

I honestly don't understand why so many saddles are stolen. There is no value to second hand tack. I have a couple of saddles I can't give away!!
 
JulesRules said:
It could be a bit like the scheme with caravans which are CRIS registered.

I honestly don't understand why so many saddles are stolen. There is no value to second hand tack. I have a couple of saddles I can't give away!!
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If you have stolen them even £50 is a 'profit"!! I think its sad that its other horse owners who are buying these saddles -maybe as a buyer we should take more responsibility to ensure that they are not stolen.
 
I think the saddle companies should put the data tag or similar in when the saddle is new, eventually all new saddles would then be able to be traced. But then I guess they are one of the people who are benefiting from people buying new saddles after they have had one stolen.
 
my saddle was stolen in 2016 and it can be identified as it has a registration number and i have my receipt showing the details so could prove ownership. i kept an eye on all on line outlets and never saw it advertised. friends of mine feel that loads of tack is stolen and is exported almost immediately so it would never be advertised in this country. who knows where it goes?
 
This has been a continuing issue for police identifying saddles when stopped in the possession of ne’er do wells...

The Datatag system uses a visible stud marker which is normally inserted on one of the top unused holes on the saddle girth straps... hence it allows Police to identify a relevantly marked saddle and know that it contains a microchip.

Rather than forensic markers it uses a glass radio frequency iD microchip similar to those used to microchip dogs/horses/cats. This allows the Police to scan easily and identify the saddle and return it to the rightful owners...

When you register it you do get an equivalent of a passport / certificate of registration which will allow subsequent owners proof of ownership and transfer of ownership details..

The RFID microchip is easily inserted with a special tool supplied into one of the flocking holes. You place the chip deep inside the saddle so it is impossible to remove...

I am still gobsmacked at the number of people who will think nothing of spending thousands on a saddle yet not spend £24 on marking their saddles for security purposes...
 
splashgirl45 said:
my saddle was stolen in 2016 and it can be identified as it has a registration number and i have my receipt showing the details so could prove ownership. i kept an eye on all on line outlets and never saw it advertised. friends of mine feel that loads of tack is stolen and is exported almost immediately so it would never be advertised in this country. who knows where it goes?
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I would guess this is the case; shipped abroad sharpish after theft. Lots of the ones stolen locally were high end Equipe, Amerigo etc, so big money with quite high demand but that'll be the case anywhere I suppose.

Mine is tagged but a buyer wouldn't be able to check that. So it's sitting at home even though it's insured because some recent thefts have been a bit close to home and it worries me. Would be a 6 week wait for a new one.
 
SadKen makes another incredibly valid point... obviously most saddles have been tailored for a specific horse and have been fitted as such...

That six week wait is dependant on insurance payout time (if insured) availability of relevant replacement saddles, and the fitters availability etc...

At this time as the calendar gets busy it would certainly mess up most people’s season!
 
This is a subject that occurs to me when ever a I see ad for multiple saddles on Facebook. The best I can come up with is creating a culture where is routine for buyers to ask for proof of purchase from the seller before they buy and for sellers to issue proof of purchase when they sell to create an audit trail of legitimate transactions.
 
SadKen said:
Yeah this is kinda what I was thinking to be honest! With high value tack I almost think it's becoming worthwhile - we have had so many professional break-ins lately that I would actually pay a little bit more to subscribe to this if it meant that potential purchasers of a stolen saddle could check for themselves before buying it 2nd hand.

The problem with the datatag thing is that your average second hand purchaser isn't going to have access to check the microdots when looking at buying a saddle; it only helps when the police are trying to match recovered stolen items with the owner. The problem is in identifying the item as stolen in the first place if it is sold via facebook, auction etc.

A logbook type thing would enable second hand buyers to quickly check if it's legit. That means we could all opt out of buying nicked saddles (by accident) and the market for them would reduce.
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Thing is it would have to then be illegal to sell saddles without it's log book otherwise you will get people not bothering, but I was thinking if if every saddle manufacturers issued every saddle with a log book it could work.
 
Farmer Chalk said:
This has been a continuing issue for police identifying saddles when stopped in the possession of ne’er do wells...

The Datatag system uses a visible stud marker which is normally inserted on one of the top unused holes on the saddle girth straps... hence it allows Police to identify a relevantly marked saddle and know that it contains a microchip.

Rather than forensic markers it uses a glass radio frequency iD microchip similar to those used to microchip dogs/horses/cats. This allows the Police to scan easily and identify the saddle and return it to the rightful owners...

When you register it you do get an equivalent of a passport / certificate of registration which will allow subsequent owners proof of ownership and transfer of ownership details..

The RFID microchip is easily inserted with a special tool supplied into one of the flocking holes. You place the chip deep inside the saddle so it is impossible to remove...

I am still gobsmacked at the number of people who will think nothing of spending thousands on a saddle yet not spend £24 on marking their saddles for security purposes...
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That's all well and good but the saddle will only get checked if it happens to fall into the hands of the police.
 
I have known thieves to remove the roof of a brick tackroom and remove hedges through two fields to steal tack. I don't think marking tack is going to stop thefts, the police don't search for stolen cars, nevermind saddles.
Locally, horseowners notify each other of suspicious activity and local travellers have been known to tip us off. Every yard should have a written policy regarding visitors coming on the premises to deter those brazen daytime thefts. I do recall one set of criminals, known to the police, were caught because our yard had CCTV cameras which picked up their registration plates.
 
The trouble is once 'all saddles' are marked then anyone who steals them know they need to check for said tagging and remove it before selling on.
I'm sure if you pulled the flocking out you would remove a microchip surely?
 
SadKen said:
I would guess this is the case; shipped abroad sharpish after theft. Lots of the ones stolen locally were high end Equipe, Amerigo etc, so big money with quite high demand but that'll be the case anywhere I suppose.
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I agree, I think these are too hot to handle over here. This is the list if we're talking of the 16 saddles stolen from Malpas earlier this week.

Amerigo Vega jump double flap brown 17 Medium Serial 17N28190415

Equipe Olympia dressage Brown 18 +1 Serial 18N44530714

Equipe Expression jump double flap brown 17 M+2 Serial 17N17010316

Voltaire custom made jump single flap brown 16.5 custom made with “Boots” on the back and Swarovski crystals Serial 3774.18

Amerigo Vega jump double flap 17 Medium Wide Serial 17N10620318

Equipe Synergy brown single flap jump 17.5 medium

Prestige Paris single flap brown 17 medium x 2

Equipe Olympia Dressage Brown 17 Medium Serial 17N42460615

Equipe Emporio Dressage Black 18 Medium

Martin Guliver GP Black Bespoke 18

Brown pony GP 15

Synthetic Black GP 17

Synthetic Dressage Black 17

Pessoa Brown 17 Medium

Brown Dressage Saddle 17.5

The Equipe saddles' identification numbers are IMHO well stamped .

image.jpeg
 
I don’t think there is much to be done. There are far more people looking a good deal than there are people looking to buy with certificates of ownership.
 
Pinkvboots said:
That's all well and good but the saddle will only get checked if it happens to fall into the hands of the police.
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You’ll be surprised how often Police will stop people with either tools, plant equipment, saddles etc... they will look through the kit but if there’s no identifying numbers on them to prove they are stolen they they have to let them on their way!

Trust me there is nothing more frustrating than giving back a load of kit that you know is stolen but can’t prove...
 
Even if you have the saddle identified and marked, won't necessarily help. Recently some saddles were stolen and sold to an establishment. Owner knows where they've gone but the police won't do anything as the new owner bought in good faith and didn't know they were stolen. Though why you would not be suspicious if someone drove up selling saddles out of the back of a van incredibly cheap is questionable.
 
criso said:
Even if you have the saddle identified and marked, won't necessarily help. Recently some saddles were stolen and sold to an establishment. Owner knows where they've gone but the police won't do anything as the new owner bought in good faith and didn't know they were stolen. Though why you would not be suspicious if someone drove up selling saddles out of the back of a van incredibly cheap is questionable.
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Yep in that case the purchaser is questionable as it's fairly obvious that they were nicked.

I think with the photo from Tiddlypom above we have the ID number, so if there was a quickly searchable database for you and me who don't want a nicked saddle, we could review the number and report or avoid it. Plus genuine sellers could put a photo up of their number when selling so it could easily be checked.
 
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