Price for gelding undescended testicle.

[Blanche]

Waiting for it to drop can be a very futile exercise in some cases. I had a TB colt about fifteen or so years ago that got to 18 months old with his balls still attached. I had been groping him while he was still on the mare and got the vet to have a feel too. We actually knocked him out twice, one standing and once flat as the vet was sure he had felt it. On opening him it couldn't be found. Anyway at eighteen months it couldn't be put off any longer( though he was a very easy colt)and he toddled off to Hotel Avonvale and eventually they found it. The vet said it was so small a gerbil would have been embarrassed. She had to blow air into his abdomen or somewhere else to force it to come down to where they could reach it. He had two holes in his flank on each side, I'm not sure they still do this though. This colt recovered very quickly. The funny part was I got a note to say he must be box rested for eight days and then have QUIET turnout. Who do they think they were kidding! Spoke to my normal vet and he went straight back out, he was a very laid back boy and happy with his friends and grass. He was away for two days.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Thank you for your reply, I’ve explained his situation to all the vets I’ve rang. It seems to some the only big difference is that they have to be knocked out instead of sedated with a local anaesthetic and it can take up to half instead of 10 mins to complete with it being undescended, the bring out a portable ultrasound Machine to look for the undescended one before going ahead . Then the other side of it are the vets saying it’s a 2 night stay in horsey hospital. I’m just trying to find the best way of doing it that’s not going to be too traumatic for him. I really didn’t want him to have to stay away but if he has to then he has to. I'm just wondering what other people’s experiences were with procedures and prices xx

Out of about 75 colts over the years, I have had one with an undescended testicle - it was about a third of the way up to the worst scenario. To add a minor complication, he also had quite a badly swollen hock - cause unclear - which had taken a long time to get from a 5 on the scale down to 1! So decision was delayed until the hock was ALMOST normal and after we'd tried a few other tricks which sometimes work - and which you can do yourself. I should add my colt was 2 when we started trying to get the 2nd to drop - up until then we had just waited because the hock made him unsaleable (and as I had a couple of colts being run on, one more wasn't a problem.) The first was regular 'attention' with warm water and sponge as well as fingers He really started to enjoy it (randy sod) particularly while probing (as for a stone) and up to kneading the testicle there and coaxing extra space for the missing. Takes a few tries with most - get no further back than girth area - I actually first trained him to wear a roller with big loops and kept the 'spare' hand on one of the loops (MUCH the safest way.)

Then we started introducing him to mares - one not in season - and one (and more) in season. He - of course - didn't care if mare wasn't, and would always get himself ready, lol. (Obviously from the other side of a stable door - watch and avoid her fore legs in particular, unless you've turned her back-end towards his nose, lol.) This is one we tried on much younger colts if we thought one was undescended - could be as young as 6-7 months. Only one didn't get himself 'ready' and he was a bit slow in ALL respects having been orphaned at 8 weeks. He caught up at about 11 months. So if your chap is coming up to yearling age, then March is far too soon to be sure time won't do it for you. I would certainly give him until May - or put off to Autumn; avoiding flies and mud both important factors. As is keeping him away from mares - colts CAN get a mare in foal - or damage her trying - from as early as 8 months and having one undescended doesn't change that risk at all. As to cost, my one was done at 3 years old, in 2015. (He'd already jumped 2 electric fences to get to an in-season mare with foal at foot and do the job - she got a jab without bothering to scan first, lol. He was away 2 days (at 3 Counties Vets) and the cost was a touch short of £850. Because of his size (already 16.1) he took more work, more anesthetic and preventative antibiotics than he would have if we'd done it sooner. That included another few days of pen/strep and tat was all the 'treatment' needed, except some antiseptic spray, and retrieving him from a field with mares in (silly me thought the 3'6" fences would be sufficient for a colt so newly gelded, and he DID pull the top line on one of the 3 he thought worth clearing. So - I THINK that more than £1,000 for the surgery would be greedy and excessive UNLESS it was a LONG way up and there were complications, so you should be warned it's possible.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Oops - just caught up with age. At 20 months, the chances of dropping are much less - although I'd still probably delay until end of April and let him smell mares, at least. I see you're on your own place so that makes management (and necessary control work) a bit easier (unless your only other horses re mares, lol. But this was my worst as a young stallion - they DO like to keep their eyes out. And his handler couldn't take a length of blue pipe into Grading with him. He regularly reared out in the field, or when ridden (obviously not for another year.)

Stallions gelded late will not be a problem once they are over the physical side of things, unless they've done a LOT of covering (rather than the odd, illicit affaire!) I gelded 2 stallions last October: one at 7, who'd only covered a couple of mares, and one at 11, who'd covered about 34. The 7 year old started back into ridden work within 6 weeks, and the only trouble with him was separation anxiety when I sent him to a very good yard. First being I didn't have a rider confident enough to do it, and 2nd that I thought separation anxiety was very likely - he was home bred. They delayed turning him out for 8 weeks (make sure sperm on the move are very dead). His only ly problem WAS the SA - but seemed to be just over it after 6 weeks. I had a very good 'fish' on the line, and she has visited him at east once a week at his new yard, and next week we'll find out if another new home will worry him. I'm fairly sure it will, for at least a week or two, but new owner really knows how to deal with it, and he knows her.

The 11 yo MUCH harder. He is still very confused - even on how to deal with geldings (do you DO them, or want them to DO you, lol) I wouldn't dare put him out with a gelding he knows (next door stable) or with a gelding he doesn't know (he might try to kill it - or run away from it!) We cannot guess how a horse will react to anything out of routine - there are so many possibles! All we can do is research, think, and then choose the 'right' way (and hope like hell!)

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Oops - just caught up with age. At 20 months, the chances of dropping are much less - although I'd still probably delay until end of April and let him smell mares, at least. I see you're on your own place so that makes management (and necessary control work) a bit easier (unless your only other horses re mares, lol. But this was my worst as a young stallion - they DO like to keep their eyes out. And his handler couldn't take a length of blue pipe into Grading with him. He regularly reared out in the field, or when ridden (obviously not for another year.)

Stallions gelded late will not be a problem once they are over the physical side of things, unless they've done a LOT of covering (rather than the odd, illicit affaire!) I gelded 2 stallions last October: one at 7, who'd only covered a couple of mares, and one at 11, who'd covered about 34. The 7 year old started back into ridden work within 6 weeks, and the only trouble with him was separation anxiety when I sent him to a very good yard. First being I didn't have a rider confident enough to do it, and 2nd that I thought separation anxiety was very likely - he was home bred. They delayed turning him out for 8 weeks (make sure sperm on the move are very dead). His only ly problem WAS the SA - but seemed to be just over it after 6 weeks. I had a very good 'fish' on the line, and she has visited him at east once a week at his new yard, and next week we'll find out if another new home will worry him. I'm fairly sure it will, for at least a week or two, but new owner really knows how to deal with it, and he knows her.

The 11 yo MUCH harder. He is still very confused - even on how to deal with geldings (do you DO them, or want them to DO you, lol) I wouldn't dare put him out with a gelding he knows (next door stable) or with a gelding he doesn't know (he might try to kill it - or run away from it!) We cannot guess how a horse will react to anything out of routine - there are so many possibles! All we can do is research, think, and then choose the 'right' way (and hope like hell!)


View attachment 40813

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a detailed reply. You’ve really put my mind at rest. Even though I know he’s just hormonal it still confuses me when I get comments from other people about his ‘manners’ colts can be a handful and they are playful he’s just more like my husband than my ex boyfriend when it come to testosterone levels lol
It has been a learning curve for me which is why I have a trainer out.
I don’t have any mares or any near by but my next door neighbour was looking after one for her friend a couple of weeks ago and although he didn’t try to escape he didn’t eat a bite of hay all week and stood whinnying over the fence to her while she struted her stuff for him on the other side!
I’m waiting to hear back from pool house in Lichfield about his operation. They are getting back to me tomorrow with details and a price. Then I think I’ll have a think about it before I book him in, some days I’m like “why am I rushing, he’s stood perfectly to be groomed and fussed” then other days I’m like “yeah he needs them removing tomorrow” lol xx

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Oops - just caught up with age. At 20 months, the chances of dropping are much less - although I'd still probably delay until end of April and let him smell mares, at least. I see you're on your own place so that makes management (and necessary control work) a bit easier (unless your only other horses re mares, lol. But this was my worst as a young stallion - they DO like to keep their eyes out. And his handler couldn't take a length of blue pipe into Grading with him. He regularly reared out in the field, or when ridden (obviously not for another year.)

Stallions gelded late will not be a problem once they are over the physical side of things, unless they've done a LOT of covering (rather than the odd, illicit affaire!) I gelded 2 stallions last October: one at 7, who'd only covered a couple of mares, and one at 11, who'd covered about 34. The 7 year old started back into ridden work within 6 weeks, and the only trouble with him was separation anxiety when I sent him to a very good yard. First being I didn't have a rider confident enough to do it, and 2nd that I thought separation anxiety was very likely - he was home bred. They delayed turning him out for 8 weeks (make sure sperm on the move are very dead). His only ly problem WAS the SA - but seemed to be just over it after 6 weeks. I had a very good 'fish' on the line, and she has visited him at east once a week at his new yard, and next week we'll find out if another new home will worry him. I'm fairly sure it will, for at least a week or two, but new owner really knows how to deal with it, and he knows her.

The 11 yo MUCH harder. He is still very confused - even on how to deal with geldings (do you DO them, or want them to DO you, lol) I wouldn't dare put him out with a gelding he knows (next door stable) or with a gelding he doesn't know (he might try to kill it - or run away from it!) We cannot guess how a horse will react to anything out of routine - there are so many possibles! All we can do is research, think, and then choose the 'right' way (and hope like hell!)


View attachment 40813

my boy

 

[cundlegreen]

hes 20 months old not years xx

i know, you said. If he has been taught manners from a baby, he shouldn't be a problem now.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

i know, you said. If he has been taught manners from a baby, he shouldn't be a problem now.[/QUOTE

oh sorry I misread. I thought you meant he had no hope at his age! Haha
His manners are not the problem, it’s his hormones. Like some men I guess, some have more testosterone than others, some women do to apparently but that’s another thread for a different website ?. Xx

 

[Leo Walker]

i know, you said. If he has been taught manners from a baby, he shouldn't be a problem now.

Thats just not true though is it. If it was people wouldnt geld colts they wanted as stallions due to behaviour. Some colts do turn into monsters with the addition of hormones no matter how good the handling has been.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Thats just not true though is it. If it was people wouldnt geld colts they wanted as stallions due to behaviour. Some colts do turn into monsters with the addition of hormones no matter how good the handling has been.

exactly what my vets and trainers have said. ??

 

[JanetGeorge]

Thats just not true though is it. If it was people wouldnt geld colts they wanted as stallions due to behaviour. Some colts do turn into monsters with the addition of hormones no matter how good the handling has been.

I HAVE to disagree with you. There is always a reason for bad behaviour in stallions - and 97% would be bad training. The other 3% could be divided between bloodlines - and bad handling of those traits when they show up; and the odd chance of a VERY bad experience in life or abuse either by accident or abuse from someone just 'passing by' (short life groom, bad farrier are two I have had recent experience of - and one was a gelding beaten up by VERY short lived farrier (1st day last). THAT gelding has had VERY good farriers since then (18 months ago), they have been told in advance that off hind is the iffy one, and whoever holds him KNOWS that they must start to massage his upper gum with their thumb the SECOND he approaches THAT leg and keep it up the whole time. My only mistake with that horse was naming him Sweet Memories, lol - he has the memory of an elephant (as do most/all horses) and it is the hardest horse problem to 'cure' other than untreatable unsoundness.Of course, the sex and the breed of the horse will influence whether they chose fight or flight. Tell a gelding, ask a mare,and negotiate an agreement with a stallion holds a lot of weight with all horses; but so does breed. Warmbloods and TBs are definitely stronger with a response to hurt; and individual bloodlines within the breeds also play a part. I'm sure Sweet Memories' good memory and speed go back to the stallion on his 5th line - a TOP TB (Nearco). One of my stallions also has The Tetrarch in his pedigree - a bit further back. As a stallion, even covering mares, speed certainly wasn't a strong hereditary trait - just colour (as you'll see) I hven't yet found the parent who gave him his enjoyment and scope jumping - although it is quite common in Irish Draughts.

My first knowledge of where stallions' behaviour originated on a TB stud (when Iwas 17) The brain dead owner bought this stallion rather cheap to come to Australia from New Zealand. He was 17yo, and twat owner thought he was cheap because of his age. He was a bit worried when he got a letter from the stud groom at the boy's last stud. Basically, they couldn't find a stud that would have him because - in the previous 5 years - he had allegedly killed THREE stud farms!! Frightened me a bit more when the head groom walked out when I'd been there 2 weeks and I was the best theyhad to take charge, lol. Ar that stage (3 weeks after arrival) there had been no real trouble with him but the season hadn't started, nd it was assumed the deaths had been accidental -due to 'normal' covering risk. But BEFORE the season, I found what I KNOW is the reason. He was out in his yard with walk-in stable. I popped into the stable to skip out - obviously with pitchfork in right hand. He saw me and charged - with evil intent! It was a miracle that I was close enough to the 6' rail fence and I cleared it - or I would not have hesitated to whack him across the face with the fork, or - if I was already between his teeth - stabbed him wherever I could reach. I put 2 and 2 together - and once we had BOTH calmed down, I went in to groom him with the lights on n the shed. And I found the scars - small round, raised ones that exactly matched a 3 prong pitchfork. Now if they'd been in neck and/or chest, I would know it had been in self defence. But it was about 4" from the top of his rump. He flinched slightly when I touched the area then settled back down. They were totally healed - and unless I'd been LOOKING for a visible scar - it would hae taken a week!! No white hair with 3 out of 4, and alost none in the 4th. But you could feel a bit of hardness under them where the holes had self-repaired. The only thing that was changed about his management other than EVERYONE getting instructions about not going near him with ANYTHING that could hint at a pitchfork. I did some controlled experiments (with me on the other side of the trying bar) - Anything long (over 12") and narrow was enough: made it hard to use standard method of stopping stallions galloping at a mare's back-end (very common) which is a 4' length of plastic pipe (usually used for underground water supplies.) Good stuff - particularly for reminding horses who are bargy (on chest)_or who rear while led (half way between knee and elbow.) With one stallion (now gelded) I'd yell 'PIPE' at him in my sternest voice as I used it, and took no time at all to limit the USE of the pipe to one time in 4 - then 6 - then 8, lol. You DO have to remind them what a word means - and keep volume and pitch consistent. I still get odd looks from visitors when a certain bay mare is on the yard and starts kicking the stable door - I roar 'Bucket' at the top of my voice - and it stops; even when I'm around the corner and out of her sight. Teaching her that much, it was handy that her stable name is Brooklet - so the sound of the word was close enough for her to know it was her I was screaming at - and why. That also ties in with bloodlines: her mother was IDxTB though only her passport would tell you that. Hunting fit, when I went to see her at the end of the season as huntsman's horse in a challenging country (High Peak) I had been told she was TB! Looking at her and riding her made me believe that - never even worried any more about whether she'd be tough enough for our country. She was - but she had real attitude (put idiot huntsman in hospital after 3 months, lol.) She came back to me as a brood mare - back then, a 3/4 TB/1/4RID would be graded AID - and then HER filly foals would be eligible for Grading as pure-breds. She had some fab foals, but ALL of them DID have 'attitude'. In the wrong hands, they tended to pick 'fight'. They were easy to sell, but several came back when I made a mistake about 'suitable' owners. Hell, one of them came back twice - the first took 3 weeks to screw up her jumping (that took 6 months to 'fix' although she still wasn't enjoying it that much!! 2nd buyer wasn't too interested in jumping, just lots of hacking a a bit of low level dressage. THAT owner took 5 months to turn her into a buckjumper (helped by an ill-fitting saddle that bruised her wither VERY badly. She took 5 months to 'fix' that time and most of that was spent healing her back and convincing her that a saddle shouldn't hurt and allowing a rider on DIDN'T double the non-existent pain. Thankfully, I found the perfect 3rd owner for her - and she's performing VERY well at low lvel dressage and won't take much time to get to a higher level.

 

[Leo Walker]

I've not read that massive block of text, unfortunately, as I had no idea what you were trying to say in the first few lines and gave up. But you yourself have gelded a colt when their behaviour wasnt good. You clearly said that was the reason as well so I have no idea why you now disagree with that.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Ok so here’s an update, today I’ve had a surgeon vet out to assess My colt.
He said that he is physically looking in good health and that his temperament and manners are great but he has agreed that with gelding he would be much easier to handle. I actually spoke to him about this thread and he said he thinks it’s funny how mares are allowed to be mareish but geldings are always rigged or colts have bad manners lol. He has booked him in for March, it’ll be a two night stay and best case scenario £350 worst case £1000.
very pleased. Lovely vet, very knowledgeable ??

 

[Dwyran_gold]

I HAVE to disagree with you. There is always a reason for bad behaviour in stallions - and 97% would be bad training. The other 3% could be divided between bloodlines - and bad handling of those traits when they show up; and the odd chance of a VERY bad experience in life or abuse either by accident or abuse from someone just 'passing by' (short life groom, bad farrier are two I have had recent experience of - and one was a gelding beaten up by VERY short lived farrier (1st day last). THAT gelding has had VERY good farriers since then (18 months ago), they have been told in advance that off hind is the iffy one, and whoever holds him KNOWS that they must start to massage his upper gum with their thumb the SECOND he approaches THAT leg and keep it up the whole time. My only mistake with that horse was naming him Sweet Memories, lol - he has the memory of an elephant (as do most/all horses) and it is the hardest horse problem to 'cure' other than untreatable unsoundness.Of course, the sex and the breed of the horse will influence whether they chose fight or flight. Tell a gelding, ask a mare,and negotiate an agreement with a stallion holds a lot of weight with all horses; but so does breed. Warmbloods and TBs are definitely stronger with a response to hurt; and individual bloodlines within the breeds also play a part. I'm sure Sweet Memories' good memory and speed go back to the stallion on his 5th line - a TOP TB (Nearco). One of my stallions also has The Tetrarch in his pedigree - a bit further back. As a stallion, even covering mares, speed certainly wasn't a strong hereditary trait - just colour (as you'll see) I hven't yet found the parent who gave him his enjoyment and scope jumping - although it is quite common in Irish Draughts.

My first knowledge of where stallions' behaviour originated on a TB stud (when Iwas 17) The brain dead owner bought this stallion rather cheap to come to Australia from New Zealand. He was 17yo, and twat owner thought he was cheap because of his age. He was a bit worried when he got a letter from the stud groom at the boy's last stud. Basically, they couldn't find a stud that would have him because - in the previous 5 years - he had allegedly killed THREE stud farms!! Frightened me a bit more when the head groom walked out when I'd been there 2 weeks and I was the best theyhad to take charge, lol. Ar that stage (3 weeks after arrival) there had been no real trouble with him but the season hadn't started, nd it was assumed the deaths had been accidental -due to 'normal' covering risk. But BEFORE the season, I found what I KNOW is the reason. He was out in his yard with walk-in stable. I popped into the stable to skip out - obviously with pitchfork in right hand. He saw me and charged - with evil intent! It was a miracle that I was close enough to the 6' rail fence and I cleared it - or I would not have hesitated to whack him across the face with the fork, or - if I was already between his teeth - stabbed him wherever I could reach. I put 2 and 2 together - and once we had BOTH calmed down, I went in to groom him with the lights on n the shed. And I found the scars - small round, raised ones that exactly matched a 3 prong pitchfork. Now if they'd been in neck and/or chest, I would know it had been in self defence. But it was about 4" from the top of his rump. He flinched slightly when I touched the area then settled back down. They were totally healed - and unless I'd been LOOKING for a visible scar - it would hae taken a week!! No white hair with 3 out of 4, and alost none in the 4th. But you could feel a bit of hardness under them where the holes had self-repaired. The only thing that was changed about his management other than EVERYONE getting instructions about not going near him with ANYTHING that could hint at a pitchfork. I did some controlled experiments (with me on the other side of the trying bar) - Anything long (over 12") and narrow was enough: made it hard to use standard method of stopping stallions galloping at a mare's back-end (very common) which is a 4' length of plastic pipe (usually used for underground water supplies.) Good stuff - particularly for reminding horses who are bargy (on chest)_or who rear while led (half way between knee and elbow.) With one stallion (now gelded) I'd yell 'PIPE' at him in my sternest voice as I used it, and took no time at all to limit the USE of the pipe to one time in 4 - then 6 - then 8, lol. You DO have to remind them what a word means - and keep volume and pitch consistent. I still get odd looks from visitors when a certain bay mare is on the yard and starts kicking the stable door - I roar 'Bucket' at the top of my voice - and it stops; even when I'm around the corner and out of her sight. Teaching her that much, it was handy that her stable name is Brooklet - so the sound of the word was close enough for her to know it was her I was screaming at - and why. That also ties in with bloodlines: her mother was IDxTB though only her passport would tell you that. Hunting fit, when I went to see her at the end of the season as huntsman's horse in a challenging country (High Peak) I had been told she was TB! Looking at her and riding her made me believe that - never even worried any more about whether she'd be tough enough for our country. She was - but she had real attitude (put idiot huntsman in hospital after 3 months, lol.) She came back to me as a brood mare - back then, a 3/4 TB/1/4RID would be graded AID - and then HER filly foals would be eligible for Grading as pure-breds. She had some fab foals, but ALL of them DID have 'attitude'. In the wrong hands, they tended to pick 'fight'. They were easy to sell, but several came back when I made a mistake about 'suitable' owners. Hell, one of them came back twice - the first took 3 weeks to screw up her jumping (that took 6 months to 'fix' although she still wasn't enjoying it that much!! 2nd buyer wasn't too interested in jumping, just lots of hacking a a bit of low level dressage. THAT owner took 5 months to turn her into a buckjumper (helped by an ill-fitting saddle that bruised her wither VERY badly. She took 5 months to 'fix' that time and most of that was spent healing her back and convincing her that a saddle shouldn't hurt and allowing a rider on DIDN'T double the non-existent pain. Thankfully, I found the perfect 3rd owner for her - and she's performing VERY well at low lvel dressage and won't take much time to get to a higher level.

hay, thank you for your reply. I was never on about bad behaviour. I was just on about the type of behaviour everyone gelds their horse or pony for xx

 

[flying_high]

I HAVE to disagree with you. There is always a reason for bad behaviour in stallions - and 97% would be bad training. The other 3% could be divided between bloodlines - and bad handling of those traits when they show up; and the odd chance of a VERY bad experience in life or abuse either by accident or abuse from someone just 'passing by' (short life groom, bad farrier are two I have had recent experience of - and one was a gelding beaten up by VERY short lived farrier (1st day last). THAT gelding has had VERY good farriers since then (18 months ago), they have been told in advance that off hind is the iffy one, and whoever holds him KNOWS that they must start to massage his upper gum with their thumb the SECOND he approaches THAT leg and keep it up the whole time. My only mistake with that horse was naming him Sweet Memories, lol - he has the memory of an elephant (as do most/all horses) and it is the hardest horse problem to 'cure' other than untreatable unsoundness.Of course, the sex and the breed of the horse will influence whether they chose fight or flight. Tell a gelding, ask a mare,and negotiate an agreement with a stallion holds a lot of weight with all horses; but so does breed. Warmbloods and TBs are definitely stronger with a response to hurt; and individual bloodlines within the breeds also play a part. I'm sure Sweet Memories' good memory and speed go back to the stallion on his 5th line - a TOP TB (Nearco). One of my stallions also has The Tetrarch in his pedigree - a bit further back. As a stallion, even covering mares, speed certainly wasn't a strong hereditary trait - just colour (as you'll see) I hven't yet found the parent who gave him his enjoyment and scope jumping - although it is quite common in Irish Draughts.

My first knowledge of where stallions' behaviour originated on a TB stud (when Iwas 17) The brain dead owner bought this stallion rather cheap to come to Australia from New Zealand. He was 17yo, and twat owner thought he was cheap because of his age. He was a bit worried when he got a letter from the stud groom at the boy's last stud. Basically, they couldn't find a stud that would have him because - in the previous 5 years - he had allegedly killed THREE stud farms!! Frightened me a bit more when the head groom walked out when I'd been there 2 weeks and I was the best theyhad to take charge, lol. Ar that stage (3 weeks after arrival) there had been no real trouble with him but the season hadn't started, nd it was assumed the deaths had been accidental -due to 'normal' covering risk.

But BEFORE the season, I found what I KNOW is the reason. He was out in his yard with walk-in stable. I popped into the stable to skip out - obviously with pitchfork in right hand. He saw me and charged - with evil intent! It was a miracle that I was close enough to the 6' rail fence and I cleared it - or I would not have hesitated to whack him across the face with the fork, or - if I was already between his teeth - stabbed him wherever I could reach.

I put 2 and 2 together - and once we had BOTH calmed down, I went in to groom him with the lights on n the shed. And I found the scars - small round, raised ones that exactly matched a 3 prong pitchfork. Now if they'd been in neck and/or chest, I would know it had been in self defence. But it was about 4" from the top of his rump. He flinched slightly when I touched the area then settled back down. They were totally healed - and unless I'd been LOOKING for a visible scar - it would hae taken a week!! No white hair with 3 out of 4, and alost none in the 4th. But you could feel a bit of hardness under them where the holes had self-repaired. The only thing that was changed about his management other than EVERYONE getting instructions about not going near him with ANYTHING that could hint at a pitchfork. I did some controlled experiments (with me on the other side of the trying bar) - Anything long (over 12") and narrow was enough: made it hard to use standard method of stopping stallions galloping at a mare's back-end (very common) which is a 4' length of plastic pipe (usually used for underground water supplies.)

Good stuff - particularly for reminding horses who are bargy (on chest)_or who rear while led (half way between knee and elbow.) With one stallion (now gelded) I'd yell 'PIPE' at him in my sternest voice as I used it, and took no time at all to limit the USE of the pipe to one time in 4 - then 6 - then 8, lol. You DO have to remind them what a word means - and keep volume and pitch consistent.

I still get odd looks from visitors when a certain bay mare is on the yard and starts kicking the stable door - I roar 'Bucket' at the top of my voice - and it stops; even when I'm around the corner and out of her sight. Teaching her that much, it was handy that her stable name is Brooklet - so the sound of the word was close enough for her to know it was her I was screaming at - and why. That also ties in with bloodlines: her mother was IDxTB though only her passport would tell you that. Hunting fit, when I went to see her at the end of the season as huntsman's horse in a challenging country (High Peak) I had been told she was TB! Looking at her and riding her made me believe that - never even worried any more about whether she'd be tough enough for our country. She was - but she had real attitude (put idiot huntsman in hospital after 3 months, lol.) She came back to me as a brood mare - back then, a 3/4 TB/1/4RID would be graded AID - and then HER filly foals would be eligible for Grading as pure-breds. She had some fab foals, but ALL of them DID have 'attitude'. In the wrong hands, they tended to pick 'fight'. They were easy to sell, but several came back when I made a mistake about 'suitable' owners. Hell, one of them came back twice - the first took 3 weeks to screw up her jumping (that took 6 months to 'fix' although she still wasn't enjoying it that much!! 2nd buyer wasn't too interested in jumping, just lots of hacking a a bit of low level dressage. THAT owner took 5 months to turn her into a buckjumper (helped by an ill-fitting saddle that bruised her wither VERY badly. She took 5 months to 'fix' that time and most of that was spent healing her back and convincing her that a saddle shouldn't hurt and allowing a rider on DIDN'T double the non-existent pain. Thankfully, I found the perfect 3rd owner for her - and she's performing VERY well at low lvel dressage and won't take much time to get to a higher level.

Very interesting.

I guess most people are still better gelding for easier handling and easier life. It is harder to accommodate and deal with stallions for most owners.

Though I agree with you few stallions are born bad and it is more likely the environment / handling / set up that causes issues. Less room for error with stallions.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Very interesting.

I guess most people are still better gelding for easier handling and easier life. It is harder to accommodate and deal with stallions for most owners.

Though I agree with you few stallions are born bad and it is more likely the environment / handling / set up that causes issues. Less room for error with stallions.

it is interesting. There’s always bad apples in every species. My Alfred isn’t one of them though, I was just asking about procedures and prices for getting my colt gelded ? who is 20 months and just becoming more hormonal. now I’m exhausted lol. X

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Thank you everyone for your input. There’s been some great advice and it’s all sorted now. Booked in for March. Just got to check with the vet if he can book in my teenage son and husband at the same time ??

 

[JanetGeorge]

I've not read that massive block of text, unfortunately, as I had no idea what you were trying to say in the first few lines and gave up. But you yourself have gelded a colt when their behaviour wasnt good. You clearly said that was the reason as well so I have no idea why you now disagree with that.

Gee, Leo Walker - so sorry you found it too boring to read a post from someone who dared disagree with you. But my post wasn't for you - it was for those who wanted to learn WHY I disagreed with you. What stallion have I EVER gelded because of bad behaviour? It just hasn't happened in my life. Because - apart from anything else - I only had the power to make that decision with home-bred colts that I still owned! Hell, the stallion with Nearco in his pedigree was 'condemned' by an Inspector who misjudged his temperament at Grading (on the basis of 30 minutes knowledge of a 3yo - in a strange place - surrounded by strange stallions). I did not even consider gelding him for that reason, the ONLY consideration was that she Graded him Class 2! But once I read why, I totally disagreed that he should be Class 2 - but as I wanted to use him on my mares, I didn't give a damn. (And 6 out of 7 of his daughters Graded Class 1!) When he threw the ratbag member of staff across the field, the rest of my staff went straight to his stable to praise him and reassure him, lol. He - and my other stallion used on my mares and one or two visiting mares - were gelded for one reason only. I was retiring. As Class 2 stallions, it was unlikely I'd find a good home for them - so anyone who wanted them was likely to breed them to junk mares of any breed and then dump them! The stallion I castrated who liked rearing was NOT gelded for that reason - but for the old rules on Grading. He FAILED grading to be RID - and a non RID stallion's pure-bred progeny could NOT be graded - so no use using him. He is now a much loved gelding in a very good home! So - just like you are wrong about stallion behaviour - let's see if you can clarify which stallion I gelded because of bad behaviour. Because you are wrong for all the stallions I have owned - not just the ones you read about in my post. Even a couple of stallions I had for a short time - one on breeding loan and the other as a member of staff at someone else's stud - I would not have gelded them because of their behaviour because - in both cases - it was caused by abuse. Both were 17 year olds - totally different breeds (one RID - the other TB) - and there was a means of handling them that would render them safe. Castration at 17 CAN be done - but unlikely to change their problems enough for them to become WANTED geldings!

How many colts have you bred, Leo??

 

[JanetGeorge]

Though I agree with you few stallions are born bad and it is more likely the environment / handling / set up that causes issues. Less room for error with stallions.

Actually, I knew several offspring of a TB stallion in Australia when I worked for the top tainer of 2yo's, Angus Armanasco. And that yard had at LEAST 6 mature stallions and 10 colts at any time. The stallion whose 'difficult' progeny I dealt with (in the case of the colt, VERY briefly) had a reputation as a stallion who threw crazy progeny. I don't know if he did - but the two I handled: the colt tried to kill me (I left the box in a hurry and went to the yard foreman to BEG him not to make me look after it.) That chap stayed a little longer (until Angus decided he was useless as a racehorse and sent him back to his owner): for his remaining time he was only handled either by the foreman or by a tall, Kiwi ex-bare knuckle boxer. He never tried to kill them after the first time he charged at the Kiwi who had just opened the stable and stood outside. When colt charged - complete with mouth open, ears flat back and a lively erection, he waited until it was almost on top of him then gave him an almighty punch - straight between the nostrils. Horse went right down - for a minute or two, then slowly got up, shook his head - and reversed back into his box, lol. The filly wasn't vicious - just terrified of everything. She went shin sore and vet checked her over, instructed her be bandaged and given the right medication. Within 30 seconds of me closing the 2nd bandage, she went beserk (had not been bandaged before at that yard - and probably never.) Vet was dragged back, but we had to literally lassoo her over the door, took 4 strong guys to drag her to the door so getcould give her IM transquilizer. I waited for it to work - then whipped the bandages off. But she sure didn't get them back on, and was sent home. So I have no idea what could have caused massive agression in the colt - and terror with anything odd in the filly. IF it was hereditary, it was only 'attitude' - whether the younsters chose fight or flight, though testoserone will help encourage fight. They both came from different studs - so they might have been managed in the wrong - but different - way. So you are very correct about less room for errors in stallions - but that also applies to mares (at least every 21 days, lol.)

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Gee, Leo Walker - so sorry you found it too boring to read a post from someone who dared disagree with you. But my post wasn't for you - it was for those who wanted to learn WHY I disagreed with you. What stallion have I EVER gelded because of bad behaviour? It just hasn't happened in my life. Because - apart from anything else - I only had the power to make that decision with home-bred colts that I still owned! Hell, the stallion with Nearco in his pedigree was 'condemned' by an Inspector who misjudged his temperament at Grading (on the basis of 30 minutes knowledge of a 3yo - in a strange place - surrounded by strange stallions). I did not even consider gelding him for that reason, the ONLY consideration was that she Graded him Class 2! But once I read why, I totally disagreed that he should be Class 2 - but as I wanted to use him on my mares, I didn't give a damn. (And 6 out of 7 of his daughters Graded Class 1!) When he threw the ratbag member of staff across the field, the rest of my staff went straight to his stable to praise him and reassure him, lol. He - and my other stallion used on my mares and one or two visiting mares - were gelded for one reason only. I was retiring. As Class 2 stallions, it was unlikely I'd find a good home for them - so anyone who wanted them was likely to breed them to junk mares of any breed and then dump them! The stallion I castrated who liked rearing was NOT gelded for that reason - but for the old rules on Grading. He FAILED grading to be RID - and a non RID stallion's pure-bred progeny could NOT be graded - so no use using him. He is now a much loved gelding in a very good home! So - just like you are wrong about stallion behaviour - let's see if you can clarify which stallion I gelded because of bad behaviour. Because you are wrong for all the stallions I have owned - not just the ones you read about in my post. Even a couple of stallions I had for a short time - one on breeding loan and the other as a member of staff at someone else's stud - I would not have gelded them because of their behaviour because - in both cases - it was caused by abuse. Both were 17 year olds - totally different breeds (one RID - the other TB) - and there was a means of handling them that would render them safe. Castration at 17 CAN be done - but unlikely to change their problems enough for them to become WANTED geldings!

How many colts have you bred, Leo??

Hi, I don’t think Leo is trying to pick an argument with anyone. I think he is going by his own experience as we all do.
In your opinion may I ask, apart from the chance of mounting a mare why do people geld their horses? Xx

 

[JanetGeorge]

Hi, I don’t think Leo is trying to pick an argument with anyone. I think he is going by his own experience as we all do.
In your opinion may I ask, apart from the chance of mounting a mare why do people geld their horses? Xx

lol, Dwyran-gold, I think you know your colt a lot better than Leo - he's grabbed a few opportunities on different types of threads - usually trying to prove he knows more than anyone else. But he's only referred to one colt.

Your colt has behaved absolutely normally for most 20 month old colts - and he's improved since you got him (even though he still has both balls.) And that's because you've done everything correctly, asked people when you weren't sure - and been very polite to every response. He is very lucky to be with you.

The problem with stallions obviously starts with mounting a mare - which means keeping him in mixed company - or even over a fence from mares - isn't often 'safe'! You need the 'right' facilities. And you won't find them on a normal livery yard - in fact, MOST livery yards won't touch a stallion as a client. If you need to put a stallion on livery, that's the first thing against him. Hell, if I had Twemlows on my doorstep, I certainly wouldn't want to lodge a riding stallion there. Fantastic facilities, great staff, but to have a young stallion surrounded by older stallions and within scent of mares wanting some rumpy-pumpy can be pretty disastrous, particularly when mares and stallions are coming and going all around him. Having a stallion at home requires very good facilities, and high, strong fences. Otherwise any mare nearby is very likely to get in foal to him: owners won't be pleased, damage could be caused to other people's property or stallion or mare (a novice colt is more likely to get nasty with a mare who is not QUITE ready is more likely- it would get a bit expensive too quickly. And it can be VERY embarrassing hacking out on a randy stallion: they KNOW where every mare in season is, long before you know/find out it's 200 yards away from the road. And then motorists passing slow enough make raunchy comments out their windows - as pedestrians or mare owners can do, when he's tapping the bottom of your boot quite hard (and loudly.) And the wost behaved ones will happily jump a fence to get to her - with you on - or off.. With racehorses trained on the track there are rues, no scolts after a set time, no in-season mares before that time, so accidents don't usually happen. I was riding a 3yo rampant colt, WELL beore 9 o'clock, when the horse (mare) in front screeched back from gallop to halt right under his nose - begging for him. He obliged =- with me still on him. I got hell from the stable lads at ALL the stables - lots of 'you like being on top then' type comments and shrieks of mirth! Te lad on the mare had jumped off pdq the second he saw the colt's arrival - I couldn't - and had just had to perch.

See this horse - another I sent back to his owner because of his behaviour with mares: He was 17 too, come to think of it. He HAD only been used for AI collection for at least 7 years - and his owners were not - IMHO - very good at owning, riding or handling stallions (judging on things they said about how they rode him - at Adv. Medium - but very limited success.) He covered his first 4 mares very well - they were mine. Then we had a visiting mare he tried to kill - and went a bit close to killing me for my liking. Usually there's a reason a stallion will HATE one mare and be fine with others - breed, colour, size being most common. But the 4 he covered nicely - and the mare he nearly killed were 3 out of 4 greying out to white, all experienced mares who behaved well, and were all pure-bred Irish Draughts. Maybe he just got out of bed on the wong side that morning. But I didn't use him again - far too risky. He went home as fast as they could collect him and was then sent to another stud (without any warning.) He was fab to ride - seen here being ridden by Kate Attlee (as was - she's married now and don't remember her new name.) And we had a mutual giggle over the owner's instructions: 'always ride him in a double - it's much easier to get him on the bit': I had NO trouble with that in a snaffle. Then there was: 'Always ride him in spurs - he won't flex or half pass without them.' Wrong again, he was really nice to ride in a snaffle and bare heels! I loved riding him but killer stallions are definitely NOT liked. His 4 foals were all super: one mare had a bit of attitude and took quite a while to work - but now out hunting for an older lady (who IS a very good rider.) But all of THAT mare's foals - by 3 different stallions - had attitude to burn, so I backed her at 10, and she often meets her 2nd daughter at low level eventing.. Another filly had a bit less attitide than some of her siblings, and was competing successfully at low level eventing - and others have shown in hand, or as Lady's hack, or low level dressage. Of the two colts, I ran them both on until 3 (deciding which should be a stallion with rare bloodlines.) My randy little fella won - first time he caused stallion type trouble was when he was about 18 months old, and overnight jumped 2 x 5' electric fences. He never touched them - so no shock there. Came onto the yard and jumped a 4' stable door to get in with a visiting mare who'd been AI'd that day - but had been kept in to treatment for fluid retention. It would hve been VERY embarrassing if she was an easy breeder - and HAD scanned in foal 14 days later - Irish Draughts are DNA tested for registration - and an ungraded youngster's illicit progeny would NOT get a pure-bred passport. That was an end to him living out 24 hours a day. That, of course, was TWO colts in at night and turned out by day - with double fencing - and never left out by day if no-one there to keep a close eye on them. That soon speeds up your decision on which MIGHT make a stallion, lol. You have made the right decision and are handling it very well.

 

[windand rain]

Thats just not true though is it. If it was people wouldnt geld colts they wanted as stallions due to behaviour. Some colts do turn into monsters with the addition of hormones no matter how good the handling has been.

I had to geld a homebred colt because he was really badly behaved away from home, at home he was an angel he was polite, was lead out daily his only problem was he thought he could read so traffic signs were very interesting he had to stop and have a read of them. He was perfect in every way to handle took him to a show and he nearly killed me a week later he was gelded and made a perfect lead rein pony without a hormonal bone in his body he was much loved by his tiny jockeys he was so safe. On the otherhand I have one that was born bad he was gelded as soon as his dropped and he is still evil 15 years old now and should have been shot years ago but we like each other so he is still around. He has never been treated in anyway badly he has never been beaten or hurt has always been fed well and handled firmly but fairly he has always been dangerous he nearly killed my friend when he was a foal still on his mum he tried to stove her head in.
The one I had gelded with neither testicle descended cost me £90 because the students did him his balls were attached to his kidneys near his spine so a major op but he was fine he has a few days in his stable so he didnt hurt himself as all our other ponies were mares it was a while ago now about 25 years when standard gelding was about £80

 

[JanetGeorge]

I had to geld a homebred colt because he was really badly behaved away from home, at home he was an angel he was polite, was lead out daily his only problem was he thought he could read so traffic signs were very interesting he had to stop and have a read of them. He was perfect in every way to handle took him to a show and he nearly killed me a week later he was gelded and made a perfect lead rein pony without a hormonal bone in his body he was much loved by his tiny jockeys he was so safe. On the otherhand I have one that was born bad he was gelded as soon as his dropped and he is still evil 15 years old now and should have been shot years ago but we like each other so he is still around. He has never been treated in anyway badly he has never been beaten or hurt has always been fed well and handled firmly but fairly he has always been dangerous he nearly killed my friend when he was a foal still on his mum he tried to stove her head in.
The one I had gelded with neither testicle descended cost me £90 because the students did him his balls were attached to his kidneys near his spine so a major op but he was fine he has a few days in his stable so he didnt hurt himself as all our other ponies were mares it was a while ago now about 25 years when standard gelding was about £80

I really think your colts were just demonstrating different behavioural aspects of young horses of ANY sex. Your first was a scaredy cat of anything odd - he could have been a filly, or he could have been gelded at 6 months. He is a bit of a wimp that has chosen flight!. Your evil boy was an early maturer sexually - his testosterone kicked in earlier than normal and he chose fight! By the time he was gelded (after weaning??) he retained fight as his response to anything - but it may well have been pain. I had a colt got ulcers due to stress at weaning. We didn't pick it up as quickly as we should and by the time he was gelded, he was an arse - managed to kick both the vet and myself when we went to dope him before castration. After castration, he got a nasty infection and after 2 days of him trying to treat that - and avoiding being killed, I gave up. He got better on his own - but his temperament didn't change - especially with me. He blamed me personally for all the bad things that had happenedand it was my fault. He was usually better with staff - although it varied which member of staff he 'liked' (or at least tolerated. After all, they were humans - not just as mean as me. He showed flight as a gelding-type response to fear, but in the stable, once you got hold of him, it was fright. I seriously considered having him PTS - but a member of staff who he liked MOST days, and who had a small yard nearby, wanted him - and I let her have him for £1 - i thought.hoped the change of home and 1st carer would help him. It did, for a number of months but he was rising 4 and not ready to start backing. She got bored, had already left me - then boyfriend dumped her and she sold him to a dealer - for a lot more than a pound. He sold her on- same day - to another dealer. Thankfully a better one, who puts months of care into him and got him backed. She sold him - and then it was up and down - I won't bore you with the detail but it involved another crooked dealer, a friend trying to buy him (when he didn't even have the horse) - luckily got her money back and he went back to the good dealer. Next home was a good one - he is now much loved and well behaved.. I bred 6 full siblings to him, and none f them were 'difficult' - although they did have a bit more 'attitude' than some! But nothing went wrong for them in their young, impressionable lives! If your 3rd one was only kept in for a few days, surprised you didn't get a few mares in foal to him. Colts still retain live semen in the system fr up to 6 weeks after gelding,

 

[windand rain]

I am afraid The one I have is genetically evil his dad is much the same however a three week old foal that deliberately tries to stove your head in is never a good look. He has never had a harsh treatment from anyone was gelded at an excellent horse hospital. Is very polite and well behaved once caught it is just loose in the field and in a stable he bites, rears at you, runs you off kicks and is generally a pain hates children with a vengence has more than once picked one up and chucked it over a fence. He is very trainable so it is such a shame as he could have been a wonderful pony. Must admit it has seriously put me off his breed but there are others that love them. It has also seriously put me off geldings. Yes I have had a lot of fillies sharp ones, excitable ones, stressy ones fiesty ones but never had one that would attack with no reason or provocation. Especially when they are as sweet as ninepence 2 seconds prior. You could have bee right about the first one but he always seemed very confidence never bothered about traffic, combine harvesters birds flying up plastic bags blowing up even at the show he was as good as gold until we went in the ring so perhaps he lost confidence surrounded by more colts

 

[Dwyran_gold]

I am afraid The one I have is genetically evil his dad is much the same however a three week old foal that deliberately tries to stove your head in is never a good look. He has never had a harsh treatment from anyone was gelded at an excellent horse hospital. Is very polite and well behaved once caught it is just loose in the field and in a stable he bites, rears at you, runs you off kicks and is generally a pain hates children with a vengence has more than once picked one up and chucked it over a fence. He is very trainable so it is such a shame as he could have been a wonderful pony. Must admit it has seriously put me off his breed but there are others that love them. It has also seriously put me off geldings. Yes I have had a lot of fillies sharp ones, excitable ones, stressy ones fiesty ones but never had one that would attack with no reason or provocation. Especially when they are as sweet as ninepence 2 seconds prior. You could have bee right about the first one but he always seemed very confidence never bothered about traffic, combine harvesters birds flying up plastic bags blowing up even at the show he was as good as gold until we went in the ring so perhaps he lost confidence surrounded by more colts

aw that’s such a shame your gelding has those traits. He’s lucky he’s got you, someone else might have pts or wouldn’t have the patience with him. You said it put you off his breed, could I ask what breed he is?
Xx

 

[cundlegreen]

I am afraid The one I have is genetically evil his dad is much the same however a three week old foal that deliberately tries to stove your head in is never a good look. He has never had a harsh treatment from anyone was gelded at an excellent horse hospital. Is very polite and well behaved once caught it is just loose in the field and in a stable he bites, rears at you, runs you off kicks and is generally a pain hates children with a vengence has more than once picked one up and chucked it over a fence. He is very trainable so it is such a shame as he could have been a wonderful pony. Must admit it has seriously put me off his breed but there are others that love them. It has also seriously put me off geldings. Yes I have had a lot of fillies sharp ones, excitable ones, stressy ones fiesty ones but never had one that would attack with no reason or provocation. Especially when they are as sweet as ninepence 2 seconds prior. You could have bee right about the first one but he always seemed very confidence never bothered about traffic, combine harvesters birds flying up plastic bags blowing up even at the show he was as good as gold until we went in the ring so perhaps he lost confidence surrounded by more colts

You can get ones born bad. My farrier told me the story of going to trim the dam of Parham Rufus ( a Suffolk who have a very small gene pool). He came at him as a 6 week old foal ready to have him, and was knocked over the head with the hammer to stop him. The colony stood him for many years, and one day the head stud groom went in, and the stallion attacked him, biting his face. They didn't geld him because they wanted the bloodlines, but he would have been cut if he'd been mine. He used to stand in his box and stare at you. A really brooding type of horse.

 

[windand rain]

A dartmoor pony he was supposed to be for my granddaughter when he grew up as I was led to believe they were quieter than Welsh. He has been a nightmare since he was born. however he did make a good driving pony and was very willing so he did have a job for a while. OH stopped driving as the roads are too bad so he has become a companion a job he does to perfection as he can be left alone when the field mates go out. Classic example today he came for a fuss was happily standing having a brush and cuddle he moved his head suddenly and caught me under the chin I went ouch he immeditely turned to attack me with his teeth so I told him off and he turned to kick so went from all lovey dovey to wanting to kill me in seconds a few seconds later he was back for a fuss. I do love him to bits but he can never leave me as he could easily kill someone. He is just unpredictably unpredictable He will likely be PTS if he gets sick or the old girl goes down hill but as long as I keep him safe and people away he should be okay we have had him all his life he is 15 this year

 

[scruffyponies]

My experience has been that well socialised stallions in a herd with no mares are sometimes a bit hotter than geldings when they go through the 'kevins' at about 5, but that's about it. They learn manners from each other, so a quiet herd will raise quiet mannerly stallions.

The set up mimics a bachelor herd in the wild, and the stallions form close friendships.
'Kevin' settles with consistent handling in very much the same way as any other youngster learning his job.

I am lucky to not have my hand forced, but have still gelded some for their own good:
- A 'born first pony'. His manners were perfect before, but gelded he could go out on loan etc.
- A slightly neurotic beta-type. I thought would be happier to not have a hormone drive he doesn't quite have a use for. Ironically schooling him up has made him a hotter ride than his hormones ever did, but I do think he's less stressy.

 

[JanetGeorge]

from all lovey dovey to wanting to kill me in seconds a few seconds later he was back for a fuss. I do love him to bits but he can never leave me as he could easily kill someone. He is just unpredictably unpredictable He will likely be PTS if he gets sick or the old girl goes down hill but as long as I keep him safe and people away he should be okay we have had him all his life he is 15 this year

You are a remarkably caring and sensible person (well, maybe not TOTALLY sensible, lol, but at least 90% so.) BUT - I'm guessing you got him as a weanling - but you'd seen him at 3 weeks?? In that case, I would say serious attitude he got from his father - compounded by the 'wrong' sort of weaning. It had NOT occurred to me that a foal stressed by an abrupt weaning - even when he'd been handled correctly throughout his time with Mum and APPEARED to be fine during a proper, slow weaning. There was NOTHING in his bloodlines other than a bit of attitude in his mother,who I bought at 3. Noting in HER bloodlines either as I bought her mother at the same time,and the other mare by the same, very well-known stallion was THE sweetest mare I ever owned as a brood mare - and the only foal that had any attitude at all was a 'surprise foal' as I bought dam as scanned n.i.f. I only KNEW the cause when he was 4 - although he'd shown signs of it before he was castrated (and just before the job he DID want to kill the vet AND me - and went close. etting a BIG dose of trank into him eek - that was dangerous! The ONLY thing that made sense w2as him being more stressed than he SHOULD have been (and chosing fight) was ulcers. It was never proven without doubt - but he was all the proof I needed (not least that he was slightly 'better' when he came straight into a stable after a few months in the field - but the 'easy' got to 'bloody hard' within 2 weeks. After I introduced Acid Ease to his feed, he improved a bit - I have used Acid Ease as treatment for several horses with 'suspicious' behaviour and it has helped all of them - at least a bit - within 4-6 weeks

Young foals - of either sex - WILL kick (or buck, or spook, or run) from the time they learn they are properly alive (about a week usually.) Plenty of good handling cures ALL of them (or at least I haven't had an exception in more than 150 foals delivered.) Even if born in the field and with very little/no handling, they can even be weaned safely - as long as given extra GOOD time and limiting stress. If the chap who was kicking at 3 weeks was taught not too: a plastic bag or half a bucket of cold water whacked on the a*se as well as a loud stern NO - if it can be delivered right on top of the kick flying out - will cure 100% of them. Just a case of whether the punishment will need giving once, twice or three times. Obviously, colts probably even more likely to take 3 'whacks' to get the message through (the girls are MUCH smarter, lol). Obviously, you do not use the 'whack' for foals who run away from you - they're harder. The best treatment I've found? Always have baby pellets or Soft Mints in your pocket. At first sign of foal running, turn your back and feed treats and 'good girl' to the mother - obviously NEVER getting between a young foal and its mother if she is the slightest bit protective. That has ALWAYS worked for me. Of course, same trick can be used with other field companions - or even the stable next door. Just takes a bit more repeating. And if ANYTHING has upset them, the likelihood of ulcers and the pain they cause, doubles or quadruples. And the longer it continues, the better any horse will remember what worked, be it running OR kicking.

 

[JanetGeorge]

My experience has been that well socialised stallions in a herd with no mares are sometimes a bit hotter than geldings when they go through the 'kevins' at about 5, but that's about it. They learn manners from each other, so a quiet herd will raise quiet mannerly stallions.

Absolutely. With pure-bred that LOOK good when yearlings or 2 year olds that look like potential stallions (and have the 'right' breeding to be fashionable, lol) I always run them on. Usually in a group of the same age or colts and already gelded. I can usually decide at 3 and I have seen a total variation in behaviour at that age - and in one case, even sooner. At worst case, the smart a*se boys escape regularly and treat their companions with disdaim. At the other end of the spectrum is the colt who thinks he's a nobody, is nervous of the Alpha colt, and usually either sticks close with the geldings or stays alone like a reject. Alpha males can be sorted - at least short-term, bu bunging them in with colts a year older, if you have the numbers to divide by age AND sex. Even better is to put them with a VERY bossy older gelding - as long as the old boy has the temperament to boss others kindly rather than breaking their legs, lol. The wimps can be 'cured' by moving them to a younger group - ideally a geldings only group.

Of course, doing this has some nervous moments, lol. These two boys were the only colts I had still at 3yo. The dark (eventually grey) lad was an escaper for mares from the age of 18 months. The bay was a bit of a wimp. They lived together and the wimp never tried to follow his best friend - if he's met an older stallion he'd have run a mile at speed. That was one of several reasons the bay lad was gelded a few months later - he didn't really notice, lol, and he was absolutely safe to put with mares 6 weeks after the op.The dark boy was a stallion - until he was 11. And he was easy enough to handle and to back, much harder to keep a bit slower on the way to a waiting mare, and definitely the FASTEST stallion at the job I have EVER seen in action. These pics should give a very good idea of who was the boss - and the better balanced - though much smaller colt was. Just a hint - the bay ended up 18hh!

 

[windand rain]

No was given him at 3 weeks because he was so awful my friend bought his mother so I owned him from 3 weeks he was weaned naturally with other foals in exactly the same way. He has always attacked and punishing him resulted in a full on kill you attack he truly is evil. He has been the same whatever diet, eat as much as he could, restricted grazing, fed lots of small meals every kind of food under the sun, just grass, just hay, He is happiest on our track system and it keeps him looking good without being fat.
My plan was for him to be for my 2 year old grandaughter to be a lead rein and perhaps first ridden. I thought he would calm down when gelded, thought it was just boisterous colty behaviour and quite normal if a bit over the top. H was gelded in the spring of his 2 year old year by an equine hospital, Was done under GA and had wolf teeth removed at the same time. He never improved no matter what we tried so decided to micromanage him and if he ever seriously hurt one of us he would be shot. We can avoid too much by letting him choose who he likes and basically it is me and a young woman who he adored and allowed to ride him. Everyone else has been rodeoed off so he isnt ridden now as his rider is too big for him now He wont make old bones bless him as if he gets sick or hurts one of us he will be PTS. I do have a photo of littleone riding him on a lead rein but he frightened her so she rarely rides and only on the big old girl