Price of professional pics at competitions? Do you buy many?

Hels_Bells

Hels_Bells

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Have just been musing to myself and thought I would share to see what you guys think on the subject...

Does anyone else find the prices for basic pictures at competitions quite high? I would love to get a few of my comp pics from this season just to put in a photo album but at £10-15 for a standard sized pic it's just out of my price range to get more than one (maybe 2 at the cheaper prices) which is really disappointing. :( So am just wondering how photographers come to the pricing they do? Maybe they prefer to sell fewer pics for more money, or would it be better for them to sell cheaper pics and more of them??

I understand that a photographer takes 1-2 days to photograph an bog standard BE event plus processing the pics maybe takes a further day (unsure on that one) but if there are say 500 competitors over a weekend and half of them buy 1 pic (I think that's quite a lot) at £10 a pop (cheapest i've seen) thats £2500, not bad for a weekends work I think. Do you think that if pics were priced more around the £4-7 mark more people would buy them??? I know I certainly would every time as there is usually at least 1 good pic in each batch??

I remember the thread some time ago about people copying pro pics and posting of f/book etc which I don't agree with at all. However, I would be prepared to pay more for an electronic copy of the picture so I could print it out myself and pass it on to family etc, but I don't think I've seen any photographers that offer this service? Basically just wondering what people's thoughts are!!! :)
 
Totally agree that more people would buy them if they were cheaper. My daughter is always moaning that I haven't bought many photos of her competing but when I tell her that if you add in entry fees, diesel to get there and then photos on top, it makes for a very expensive day out!

We did go a small ODE the other day and the photographer was offering a CD with (I think) 8 pics on it, we thought great - until we saw the photos. He had managed a few decent ones of the dressage but hadn't managed to get one of them jumping a fence (lots coming up to the fence!) Needless to say, we didn't buy. Heard later that he'd never taken photos of horses competing before!
 
No-not that I've done much competing lately but the last full season I did I took my ex racehorse to about nine or so BE events-he was well placed and I managed to buy one pic from Draycott - it had three things going for it-in focus-the majority I saw all year were not-and it was taken over a decent fence-one I would have chosen myself- and it was not ridiculous money. Some of the photographers seem to have a penchant for choosing the smallest fence on the course and the quality is often poor and charging £15 for a 7x5 or an 8x6 is a bit too expensive for me!
 
Also another thought... a fairly standard price for a wedding photographer for 1 day is about £1000 but often includes the price of pics/album. So is an event photographer expecting to make a similar amount per day on photographing BE events?? I guess that at £10 a pop that means they need to sell 100 pics per day?? Is this the usual amount they sell??

Tophambrown - it looks like you are in the trade - really keen to hear your thoughts and comments on how it all works!! :)
 
The photographers that have covered recent events I have done have been £6-8 for a 7x5 and if there have captured a good photo then yes I do buy the odd one for my photo album.
 
I am going to e-mail one photographer to ask if they do a discount for multiple purchases as I really like 5 photos but they are £14 each, that said I rarely ever buy pro pics (1 each the last 2 seasons - the advantage of having an ugly horse :p) so I may splash out :)!

Some are much cheaper but then the quality of the photos really varies I won't name names but Nick Gill and Chris Lax photos are imo very good quality compared to others in the area!
 
We have a loval show centre who has a photographer who sells pics only on the day, but they are £2.50 a shot! As a result, people buy 2 or 3 because they are cheap, and I am sure he makes as much as he ones charging more without the hassle of a website etc :)
 
I dont think half of the competitors at a show normally buy pictures. And a show with 500 competitors is quite a big show, which is going to need more than one person manning the cameras in order to get pics of everyone. And they wont be doing shows this big every weekend.

If you are buying them at the show (not online), consider the expensive printing equipment as well and the fact that you need cameras/lenses worth a few thousand pounds each (x by how many camera operators you have) insurance for the cameras etc, wages for the staff. i dont think £10 is unreasonable
 
I find it so annoying that they find the smallest fence on the course too! Think this is something that photographers really need to look at, as i would imagine if they chose bigger/more interesting fences, they would get a lot more customers!

Also only usually buy 1 picture (if that sometimes, as often poor quality, or none that we couldnt take ourselfs tbh! e.g over really boring fences that we could build at home!) unless they have offers like 3 for 2 etc.. If they were sort of £8ish each it would definatley encourage me to buy more..
 
Definitley choice of fence for me, if it's something more `imposing' for want of a better description, I think I'd be more likely to purchase, at Hutton last year there was a lovely one of mine and horse's backsides going over the steeplechase fence, now horse has lovely backside, mine, not so lovely ;)
 
Hutton has had the photographer in the same place the past 2 years as well, there were some nice pics of me this year but I have one of the same pony over the same fence just with a different rider from last year!
 
I do freelance sports photography, we work on around 20% of competitors buying an image, it's nowhere near 50%.

For a photographer to do well in event photography, they need a team of 2 or 3 photographers working for them, an on site printing facility, website, petrol to get to the event (I've travelled 3 hours to an event before earning a penny). The capital investment is so high, not to mention equipment- my camera is £1000, lens £800, back up camera £400, 6/7/8 memory cards are £10-£20 a pop, 4-6 batteries at £10 a hit, plus the general wear and tear on your camera (it will eventually die if you use it in a professional manner no matter how sturdy it is). My gear is by no means top quality and I have already sent 1 camera to camera heaven due to over using it.

Often the photographer is asked to make a contribution to the show organisers for allowing them to make money at their event.

Once you've bought the equipment, got to the show there is still no guarantee that you will sell any photos, it is very much hit and miss. Some days we have a fantastic day, others people just do not buy and quite often you get the same people at the shows so they don't buy every week. If out photographing XC we vary the jumps to shoot at, don't just pick the one closest to the van! SJ we go for a variety of shots as with showing, so there's always plenty of choice.

It isn't a glamorous job, sometimes we start shooting at 8am and work straight through till gone 6pm. Lunch breaks don't exist and by the end of the day you lose the will to live, arms are tired from carrying all the gear, then you have to drive home. We are often the first people to turn up at an event and the last to leave and then you have to upload onto the website which can take hours... so when competitors complain at paying £8-£10 for a photo, I tend to get a bit irate and annoyed...
 
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Thanks so much for your input Twizzel, I really wanted to get more detail on what is involved for the photographer and that is exactly what you have given, so thanks v much. It sounds like awfully hard work.

Personally I would love to buy at least 1 or 2 pics at most events sometimes more but given that I struggle I have to just find my entry fees I usually just can't stretch to the extra cost. If it was possible more people would buy would it be worth you doing special offers for multiple purchases, electronic pics or just lowering the sale price do you think? If 20% is the average, is it better to have 30 or 40% at a lower price?

I also massively agree with the big fence point. I always want to have a pic of the most impressive fence on the course and am often disappointed when it's a teeny one, but I think the photographers often pick the most basic as it means more people will get over it?? Is that cos they are being kind and inclusive of everyone or because of the bigger hit rate??
 
Hels_Bells said:
I also massively agree with the big fence point. I always want to have a pic of the most impressive fence on the course and am often disappointed when it's a teeny one, but I think the photographers often pick the most basic as it means more people will get over it?? Is that cos they are being kind and inclusive of everyone or because of the bigger hit rate??
Click to expand...

I did actually ask a couple of photographers about this :D
Apparently light plays a huge part.
But I will be far less likely to buy a pic where the fence looks tiny!! Hendersyde was definitely the biggest BE90 we did this year with some great photo opportunities I thought but the only pic of me was at the smallest fence on the course a post and rails part b element!
 
I tend to only buy from 1 photographer because her prices are reasonable and she will sell the full quality digitial image. I can't afford to buy at the prices most charge and I do wonder if the photographers aren't missing the market. I understand the cost of equipment, but I'm sure many more people would buy more if they were cheaper, therefore making the same or more profit.
 
I would love to buy a photo (appearance permitting of course!!) from every event I've done. I don't mind paying £10 per photo IF its good quality, has got ALL of both me and the horse in, and doesn't have some stranger's bottom in the background!! I do think, however, that over that price IS too much for 1 photo, no matter how good it is. Obviously it would be more for a bigger shot, but for 7 x 5 should be no more that £10.
I would definately buy more if they were about £7, and would consider to buy 2 for something like £16 if those sort of deals existed.
 
Here in Belgium there is usually a photographer at the dressage competitions we go to, the quality is usually good, and they show them on a computer screen, then if you choose any they are printed off straight away. Cost usually €8-10. I only buy one if it is a very good shot or a movement that hasn't previously been captured in a good photo.
 
DarkHorseB said:
I did actually ask a couple of photographers about this :D
Apparently light plays a huge part.
But I will be far less likely to buy a pic where the fence looks tiny!! Hendersyde was definitely the biggest BE90 we did this year with some great photo opportunities I thought but the only pic of me was at the smallest fence on the course a post and rails part b element!
Click to expand...

Light does play a part but the new digital cameras can cope-mine is fantastic in low light conditions-but because people have got used to seeing loads of pics at an event if you show one good pic you are always asked if you have any more and I do think that has made photographers go to combinations where they can show eight shots rather than going for the one good shot over a decent fence
 
Agree with DHB - I'll almost always buy a decent pic over a big fence SJing or XC. However I've only bought three pics this year - and one was from MelHorne (on here) who sells via photobox and is ludicrously cheap. Hers was the best pic by far, though my husband was so impressed by one that photo_jo took on the flat that he's offered to buy me a print (will see you about that some time ;)).

At Bishop on Sunday admittedly the conditions were horrific but the photographer was at the tiny log (part 'a' of the water). I asked him if he would be changing fence for the BE100 and he said no. There's no chance that I'll buy a picture of my horse jumping a 2'6 log, however good the photography! There were a few decent fences out in the open that I'd have thought would have sold a million times better!

The Hutton photographer (can I mention names? - it was Grossick, who are usually excellent) was at the same fence for both June and Septermber fixtures. It was a brush shared with the BE90 so I doubt many people in the BE100 bought photos! I got an almost identical picture taken of me at both fixtures and unusally bought one at the first event (I was a captive audience as had to wait hours for the prize-giving). No chance that they'd have been able to sell me a second, virtually identical one!

10/10 to Bill Parrot for taking pics at Eland Lodge of the landing side of the most enormous fence on the course. When I paid for mine the queue was a mile long.
 
I dont buy pro piccys because they always choose the smallest fence to sit at :mad:

I would buy the piccys if they had a rider frightner fence, or something that looks big - not over a silly log :confused:

The pro pics here are £10 - which I will pay but I would buy more if they were £5 a photo! :)
 
I normally have to really like a pic before I'll part with my cash (true scot!). I wouldnt mind paying £10 for a decent photo but some photographers do charge way more than that. This year I have bought a couple of photos, some from MrFJ (who takes great shots and is cheaper than average by a fair amount!), one 'expensive' photo (which was just too good not to get!) and a cd of 6 photos that I could print off myself for the tiny sum of £15 (bargain!).

Last year for Christmas my friend gave me a lovely frame with a note inside as an IOU for a pro shot from the season. As I rarely buy photos it was lovely to be able to go through and pick one, which now has pride of place in my living room :D
 
Pro photos are only worth buying if :-

a) They are taken over an impressive jump
b) Focus/lighting etc is better than an amateur could catch
c) It wasn't exactly the same fence as the year before

Then I am happy to part with a tenner. Otherwise not. :)
 
With regards to light and fences, that is to some extent true. I was sat at a fence out XC this season all day and in the end had to give up and move somewhere else, yes I was getting shots at the right time and they were sharp but the light can do so much to improve a photo, so I moved to another fence on the course where the light was better, it can often be the difference between a photo having that 'wow' factor or not.

It seems some photographers are lazy, if you have your wits about you, you can get 5 or 6 fences out of a showjumping round photographed (whilst dodging horses haha), and out on the xc course whilst it is more beneficial to shoot combination jumps we will just stick to one jump if it is huge or the light is good. Plus you can get fantastic galloping shots. And yes... there is normally a photographer towards the beginning of the course for those people who don't get round the whole course, we still pick a nice jump though :)

I think the reason why pros don't charge less and sell more is that is much more labour intensive, effectively you are doubling the workload for the poor soul back at the van who whilst trying to print and sell pics is also uploading from memory cards, printing out thumbnails and sticking them down to tables for people to view, along with having to pull photos up on screen for those who want to preview before they buy. If that person then had to make 2 sales to make £10 instead of 1 sale, they would probably end up with a queue and lots of impatient customers. Either that or hire another person to help, but then that is yet another outlay...
 
I go out most weekends and always check the photographer's website excitedly afterwards as I love getting good shots of my horse! Have just had one arrive today actually which is beautifull, really great focus and sharp (especially considering it was raining at the time!), it was only £7 for a 6 x 8 inch which I think is great value. The photographer, DigitalPicy (sorry to namedrop but I am very impressed so think they deserve it!) also had smaller sizes available starting from just £4 which is rare, most photographers round me start at £10 for a 7 x 5. Normally I only buy one photo per show as I just can't afford to buy many! If there are more than one I really like I may splash out but generally I just buy the one nicest one.
 
I generally buy photos at every show/event if they are good. I've even bought one they took of my dog!

I would love to have the option to buy a 4x6" or 5x7" version for a bit less money. I don't want to put every one in a frame...

I agree with the majority on here, I'd much prefer more impressive fence photos. If it were a photo of the more difficult fence on the course I'd buy it. Stafford took quite impressive ones last year, but unfortunately I was gurning on the way over!
 
I have bought far too many photos this year, 1st intro, 1st pn, BYEH etc! last year i didnt buy any though as was a poor student!

I actually dont think £10 is bad at all if you think of all of the investment. I like being able to buy pictures at shows :)
 
I have not bought any pics this season so far, but do keep all the links to the photgraphers websites and will be hoping to get one or two for my birthday in november. that said if they were only a fiver i would have bought one from each event! as others have said though, it costs about £100 to do a BE event with start fee, entry, diesel and money for a coffee or some chips etc and spending another £15 on a pic that is not over the biggest fence on the course, or where I'm pulling a funny face is just not going to happen.

In the end i will spend probably £30 this season in 2 pics, or would have bought about 10 pics if they were £5, so that could be an extra spend of £20 per person, 67% more..
 
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