Prices just went up another level

[tatty_v]

I’ve been counting my lucky stars that we managed to find our latest acquisition through word of mouth and paid a reasonable price for him. I was searching for a long time but struggling to find anything within a £7k budget. However, I do accept that I was shopping in that sweet spot (15-16hh, gelding, 8-12 years, life experience). I’m also happy to take on horses that need schooling and fitness work, so long as they are sensible generally and good to hack. I do feel for anyone that is looking to buy at the moment. My friend is looking to replace her eventer, who sadly has health issues, and she’s having to look at £13k+ ?

 

[AdorableAlice]

I would like to see the breeders of good all purpose horses start producing again safe in the knowledge the stock will command a price that it should. British bred cob x TB and Irish x TB types that just are not seen anymore.

A return to the Hunter Improvement Society for those who can remember that !

 

[Shilasdair]

Supply and demand (neoclassical) economic theory would suggest that, as horse prices are high, producers will move factors of production to creating more of them (shipping stock from Ireland, breeding from that lame mare etc..) In the short run, the price will rise as demand is higher than supply, but in the longer time period, supply will increase bringing prices back down.
The question is - how long does it take to source/create a horse to sell?

 

[chaps89]

I was speaking to my vet a couple of weeks ago, she was saying it was still madness, number of vettings being done was through the roof, but very few were passing/sound...and yet people would still buy. That's frightening quite frankly!

I wouldn't want to buy in this market. Price aside, not being able to take my time to do 2 visits and have a vetting without feeling rushed/losing out on the horse to someone prepared to buy unseen and/or unvetted would be horrible.

I would like to see the breeders of good all purpose horses start producing again safe in the knowledge the stock will command a price that it should. British bred cob x TB and Irish x TB types that just are not seen anymore.

A return to the Hunter Improvement Society for those who can remember that !

This this this!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

There’s a full TB for sale at the moment that’s done a couple of unaff 90s. Nearly 20k...

That is just utterly ridiculous! I know of one that came from our yard, he has done well in everything asked of him in the last 2 years - showing, dressage, jumping, eventing - placed in 2 BE 80's, 2 poles in an 80 and his first 90 due to rider error and that's the only BE he has done. 5.5k available after Petplan finals if anyone is interested... 16hh 9?yo gelding. Easy going chap when you get to know him.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I am seriously considering it. I had always thought I wasn't 'good enough' for a Tb but I have ridden a fair few off the track standies and mad warmbloods ?

When you find the right one you will have a friend for life. I would go down the National Hunt horse route for a happy hack as most will have been hacking and done some work in the school. If you start looking now you will probably find a horse that is no good or older so retiring after the winter campaign. If you wait til the end of summer - september/October time then end of season Summer jumpers will come up as well as a load of flat horses. Timing is key when looking for a racehorse. You need to look to the end of seasons generally.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Supply and demand (neoclassical) economic theory would suggest that, as horse prices are high, producers will move factors of production to creating more of them (shipping stock from Ireland, breeding from that lame mare etc..) In the short run, the price will rise as demand is higher than supply, but in the longer time period, supply will increase bringing prices back down.
The question is - how long does it take to source/create a horse to sell?

Minimum four years as a breeder selling a sound horse with basic manners and ridden away. Pre COVID prices were so low for this type of horse the breeders of amateur horses packed up.

Dealers buying in can buy one yesterday, rag it around this morning, give it a wash and spruce up to sell tomorrow. Buyer beware.

 

[honetpot]

Minimum four years as a breeder selling a sound horse with basic manners and ridden away. Pre COVID prices were so low for this type of horse the breeders of amateur horses packed up.

Dealers buying in can buy one yesterday, rag it around this morning, give it a wash and spruce up to sell tomorrow. Buyer beware.

This is me. The cost of breeding a good foal is about £1000, just in stud and vet fees, and none of the costs of keeping the brood mare for nearly two years. I am lucky, I could run them on until four to get a better price, but even then it was better to buy them in as stores. I sold my last youngster last April, he was probably too cheap, but I sold him to a pro home, so he is should worth three times what I sold him for, they did a very good job.
I am having trouble replacing him, so he may be my last one, although I have been looking at brood mares, which is madness.

 

[Mals05]

Prices have gone through the roof. We had the same issue last summer. Hard to find anything under 10-12k. Also seemed less imports around. We were originally looking for a sensible ready to go out type but ended up buying a youngster instead. It took us about 3 months to find a good match. Looking back probably the right decision for us. Good luck, I hoop you find what you are looking for.

 

[Cloball]

When you find the right one you will have a friend for life. I would go down the National Hunt horse route for a happy hack as most will have been hacking and done some work in the school. If you start looking now you will probably find a horse that is no good or older so retiring after the winter campaign. If you wait til the end of summer - september/October time then end of season Summer jumpers will come up as well as a load of flat horses. Timing is key when looking for a racehorse. You need to look to the end of seasons generally.

Thank you for your advice. The plan is to get the house move sorted. Have to lessons in a new place to keep my hand in and have a look around for livery yards and instructors so probably autumn time although the year is marching away from me.

 

[scats]

Honestly, I think I’m priced out of the market now. I just couldn’t afford to pay outright the prices people are expecting for very average horses.
Millie is definitely not for sale, and never will be, but I do wonder what she’d be worth in this crazy market. 15hh, coloured, registered PB welsh, 11 years, good to catch, load, clip, travel etc. Hacks alone and in company, schooling at elementary, behaves impeccably at farm rides. No vices.

 

[ycbm]

Well I don’t know where all these people are that are fighting for horses and paying ridiculous prices.

I’ve advertised mine at a sensible price with a decent advert... no sensible takers as yet

Happy to review your ad for you if you PM it?

Is it possible you're pricing too low? It puts people off in a hot market, they think there must be something wrong with it.
.

 

[Bernster]

There’s a big range now with a few fairly standard types at 20k+. And they seem to be selling. Weirdly, when you look for a while you get used to it, so anything 10k and below seems like a bargain! There is one that’s in my criteria but seems oddly cheap in comparison and that has put me off, but I’m re thinking that after reading some replies on here. Damned if I can find it now...!

There are a few where people are just having a punt at 15k+ for an unproven youngster (no special breeding).

 

[sport horse]

I think everyone should realistically add up the cost of breeeding/keeping/producing the average happy hacker/low level sport horse.

Stud fee & vets fees to get mare in foal and scans etc. At least £1000
Keep of mare for 18months - 2 years while in foal & nursing - say grass at £20/week for 75 weeks £1500
Farier/vet for mare during pregnancy and for foaling if needed, vaccination of foal/mare £500
Passport for foal including vet for markings, microchip etc £200
Keep of foal for 4 years to breaking age of 4 years @ £20 pw £4160
Backing & breaking 6 weeks @ minimum £150pw £900

That is so far £8260!! In no way would this be a safe happy hacker. It is a green just broken young 4 year old!!
Oh, yes, I hear you say but the breeder might have their own land so not be paying for grass keep. Yes they might but it costs money to buy and maintain and they could let it out for grass livery or make hay and have an income, so why breed to not even cover cost?
Oh, but the breeders do not breed for money they do it for love, because they enjoy having young horses. Really!

Well folks. The fact is that the breeders not only here but also in Ireland and Europe woke up some years ago to the fact that, other than top end sport horses, there was no money in breeding so they packed it in. The prices you see now are, as has been said, supply and demand, and the supply has dried up and the demand has not so prices have gone up. Will they go down? Maybe a little but I doubt they will go back to where they were.

The prices I have quoted are, in my opinion, the very basic costs of breeding a nice riding horse - for a more specialised sport horse you can multiply those figures several times over. They take no account of a professional breeder having to build into their figures the losses, the initial cost of a mare, any major vet bill, the years the mare does not get in foal etc etc etc etc.!

 

[teapot]

There’s a simple answer to all of this: don’t buy a horse now. I know it’s boring to wait, but do any of us ‘need’ a new horse that much that we are willing to pay double or triple it’s worth.
Wait, be patient, have some lessons on decent schoolmasters (they can be found and they really need your money) and buy next year, or the year after when things calm down.
And they will,
I don’t buy all this, ‘horse prices have been too low for too long and the breeders struggle to make money’. That may be true to an extent, but these current inflated prices are totally due to covid and brexit.

You're assuming centres can afford to keep schoolmasters running, or buy them in the first place.

Try being in the industry and sourcing horses at the moment. Demand for lessons has upped massively across the board which is great, just what the industry needs, but having the spare cash to go out and buy something that's safe, sound (or least manageable), schooled, and does the job for a variety of riders is the hardest it's ever been. Let alone transport costs fromm Ireland or the continent. Popping to Goresbridge to bring four/five back is no longer viable. Then the time and investment in getting a horse to a decent lesson standard...

There's a reason why the big centres advertise for long term loans but those are drying up because the owner market for horses stepping down the levels has gone through the roof.

 

[laura_nash]

Just had a look at the latest Connie prices. Jeez.

My neighbours just sold his 4 year old connie broodmare. Apparently someone offered him a price he couldn't refuse, they'll start her under saddle and sell her on.

I'm pleased as the poor girl was always bored and lonely, just had an old donkey for company since a yearling. She would be so thrilled when mine were next door and make a huge fuss when I moved them.

I've also had someone come around asking if mine could be for sale, so I expect they're driving around all the farming areas looking for horses in fields.

 

[Wishfilly]

Supply and demand (neoclassical) economic theory would suggest that, as horse prices are high, producers will move factors of production to creating more of them (shipping stock from Ireland, breeding from that lame mare etc..) In the short run, the price will rise as demand is higher than supply, but in the longer time period, supply will increase bringing prices back down.
The question is - how long does it take to source/create a horse to sell?

Bringing horses in from the EU is now more difficult/expensive, so that's part of the lack of "supply" impacting prices right now.

It's not just all about lockdown.

But the country is likely to be in a different place in 4-5 years time, so I hope no-one is breeding in the hope of meeting that supply.

 

[[59668]]

I enquired with a local racing yard this week. A 6yo out of training 3 weeks, showing promise....10k! I nearly choked!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I enquired with a local racing yard this week. A 6yo out of training 3 weeks, showing promise....10k! I nearly choked!

OK that is an actual pics take! Expecting covid prices! We tend to sell the good prospect for £3-4k, the generic ones for £1.5-2k and the weirdo's are loaned. We have one that will be an absolute bloomin cracker for eventing when he finishes racing (which will probably be soon as he is naff at his current job) and he will be 4k I expect and he would be worth it.

 

[spacefaer]

Any horses coming in from Ireland or Europe will be more expensive from now on because of the increased costs of vets and transport, plus the extra 20% import tax. It should help British bred horses but there'll always be people prepared to pay the premium

 

[Michen]

Any horses coming in from Ireland or Europe will be more expensive from now on because of the increased costs of vets and transport, plus the extra 20% import tax. It should help British bred horses but there'll always be people prepared to pay the premium

From what I’ve seen Re Ireland there’s easy ways of avoiding it which transport companies are doing by using a different port.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

From what I’ve seen Re Ireland there’s easy ways of avoiding it which transport companies are doing by using a different port.

Yes Irish transporters go north into Northern Ireland and across from there so much less hassle and expense as they already have all the right pieces of paperwork to do it.

We just went through all the paperwork the other week to take a horse to the Punchestown Festival and he didn't go in the end because it was far more hassle than it was worth to get him from Scotland to Southern Ireland. Your lorry needs an EU licence which you can only get in the EU so we would have had to get the truck over empty first for 2 days before bringing it back, that paperwork takes up to 28 days to come through. Then your driver needs an EU certified CPC. The cost of all that is ridiculous and then I think there was an EU charge for the horse as well but you could claim it back if you were a company. The horse had to be vetted 24 hours before it travelled over, had to have certain vaccs as well that were flu. And then you had the human covid quarantine etc. Far, far too much hassle.

 

[[59668]]

OK that is an actual pics take! Expecting covid prices! We tend to sell the good prospect for £3-4k, the generic ones for £1.5-2k and the weirdo's are loaned. We have one that will be an absolute bloomin cracker for eventing when he finishes racing (which will probably be soon as he is naff at his current job) and he will be 4k I expect and he would be worth it.

Lol at the weirdos!
I know right! I just said thats a little out of my budget but thanks.
Also nuts cos I said my requirements were sound, sane, seen coloured poles, only want to event 80cm!

 

[AdorableAlice]

One of the sadder points of the price situation is all the older or aged horses on the market now. 18 plus is common at 4k.

Those old boys and girls will have been in long term homes, the upheaval will be massive for them.

 

[spacefaer]

From what I’ve seen Re Ireland there’s easy ways of avoiding it which transport companies are doing by using a different port.

Yup but only until July 1st when that loophole closes

 

[emilylou]

I am on the other side with this. I have 3 potentially for sale. Two Irish youngsters, one 3yo who is lightly broken and a 4yo who will be broken and for sale in a couple of months time, and a quirky but safe TB.
I hope to find good long term homes for all of them and don’t want absurd money for them.
However I’m cautious to advertise in current market, particularly the TB as people seem to be buying quick without much thought and if I advertise at a sensible price then who’s to say the buyer won’t sell on for a few more ££ the following week.
It’s a tough market for sellers who care about their horses too.

 

[maya2008]

Well I don’t know where all these people are that are fighting for horses and paying ridiculous prices.

I’ve advertised mine at a sensible price with a decent advert... no sensible takers as yet

That happened to me many years ago with a project pony. I kept her in the end - she was worth what I was asking and more. No regrets - some things are meant to be!

I hope yours sells soon!

 

[Ceriann]

Well the 5 year old I’d seen was sold over the weekend. I do wonder if there will be one I just can’t sit on my hands on. In no rush so will stop looking as keenly for a bit (brain is fried) and see what happens!

 

[ycbm]

Well the 5 year old I’d seen was sold over the weekend. I do wonder if there will be one I just can’t sit on my hands on. In no rush so will stop looking as keenly for a bit (brain is fried) and see what happens!

I was going to post, but haven't had the time, that if the 5 year old was still available after you'd had time to post here and wait for input, then it probably wasn't a good horse. It's that kind of market right now.

I am on the other side with this. I have 3 potentially for sale. Two Irish youngsters, one 3yo who is lightly broken and a 4yo who will be broken and for sale in a couple of months time, and a quirky but safe TB.
I hope to find good long term homes for all of them and don’t want absurd money for them.
However I’m cautious to advertise in current market, particularly the TB as people seem to be buying quick without much thought and if I advertise at a sensible price then who’s to say the buyer won’t sell on for a few more ££ the following week.
It’s a tough market for sellers who care about their horses too.

Your best choice, I think, is to price them high and be picky about who you allow to buy them. I wouldn't risk selling at below current market value, I think you'll likely see them sold again for a higher price within weeks.

I don't see the issue with selling at the best price you can get for them, you can still vet the buyer just the same.
.

 

[Old school]

Recently I sold a horse very quickly. I priced the horse fairly. A friend bought said horse. Came and collected the horse and paid for it. Proceeded to 'brag' how they were going get/take more photos of the horse doing things and sell on a different social media platform, with the intention of pocketing several thousand profit after two to three weeks of ownership. Even wanted us to send photos, that were not published, on to them for use in their add.