Pricing for a well bred ISH x with a quirk?

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Hi some background, some on here may recall my earlier posts re: the ISH x I bought this year. He is with an eventer for reschooling and is now going well without evidence of his rearing issues (had to move him from the guy he was with at first as he was a bit of a plonker... 'nother story).

The eventer he is with now thinks he was simply uneven (he is quite young) and needed work to help him use his body and develop strength and the rearing was his call for help when placed under pressure. The change in him is marked and he is doing really well and showing potential.

My long term plan is to sell him to the right home eventually. The eventer he is with knows this and has made me a low offer. I'm not desperate to sell as I do want him to be right both in body and spirit and importantly go to a long term home where they 'get him'.

I've advised that the offer isn't a realistic option and we have discussed other options as they would be a super home. In talking price they talked him down which did disappoint me as they had been so positive when they viewed and handled him initially -he so needs people in his corner.

Any thoughts on what this quirk would do to value for semi pro / pro buyers greatly appreciated?
 
I can't remember how old he is but I think it will be age dependent, a 4 year old with a few issues that is very talented and ready to go next season and could sell if required with some runs under its belt may be a better prospect than a slightly older horse with no record to date.

I think that you have a few options,
1 take the offer and move on, probably the most sensible.
2 come to an arrangement with the pro to keep the horse, run it early in the spring and hope it then attracts sensible offers. Possibly joint ownership if he likes the horse, this should appeal.
3 get him out now, BS and BD try and get some money/ points and sell if and when a buyer comes along looking for a horse to run BE in the spring.

The pro who has him now is hopefully just talking him down to you to try and buy cheap, if he does not believe in the horse he is unlikely to want to buy him, it costs so much to keep them it would not be viable unless he expects to sell on well at some point.

Is he currently on the market? if he is have there been any viewings, if you want to pm me a link to the ad I will give my opinion on how well he is being marketed as that can be the difference between selling and being stuck with them.
 
Thanks so much BP for your offer. He isn't on the market yet as I want to be certain he has a good period of time with no issues. He is 6 and hasn't competed affiliated yet so behind for his age possibly.

I know option 1 is a cut my losses position but I don't like to have my back against the wall as he is too much horse for me but not for everyone. I'm also worried that he has more problems due to being worth something and how people view that than any rearing so a good long term home is my primary objective. With this in mind I did think about keeping a leg share or so, interesting to see that you agree it's an option:)
 
You risk putting a lot more money in but if you are happy to do so and the pro is happy to get on and compete him properly, the end result could be the most rewarding, if not financially it will still be fun being an owner for a while.
 
Ok, this doesn't make sense. On what hand the pro is saying that the horse was too young and uneven so this is being sorted out, on the other he is now saying it is an issue? I don't take issues that babies throw as necessarily being permanent - there was a project that was taken on and he would jump out of the school, run off, etc etc. He was turned around by a pro and ended up exceeding their expectations. This little no hoper was out eventing like a superstar last season and will be upgrading to Novice next year. His price now would be based on what his record is and what he is now. Never ever seen a repeat of the behaviour he showed when he first arrived. Yes he has a very good amateur rider in his owner but he has turned out to be a really solid horse.

So, competition horses need some sort of a record, otherwise its "potential" which doesn't show as well. A horse that has gone out to a couple of dressage and SJ shows ups its value a lot! (assuming it has done well!). Is your horse 6 this time or actually nearer 7? is it still rearing or has that now stopped? when you say ISH x -.. what is that? ISH is a generic breeding book so an ISH could be quite a mixture! but breeding is not of so much interest in a gelding as say a mare. It might be of interest if the sire was a proven sire of good event horses.. say Master Imp as an eg. If you then look at horse quest, H&H and British Eventing Classifieds then you should get a good idea of what your horse is worth, factor in the money you are spending with the pro to sort him out and then you will come up with a realistic figure. Otherwise, if you like, pm me and I can check with my YO. She produces on young eventers and I can validate prices with her!
 
Thanks Lucie07 he is 6 and he has stopped rearing on this yard. He is by Courage II and King of Diamonds Gd mare so breeding is good his half siblings are already working up the levels. I'm advised that rearing is an issue with this bloodline when younger. Good to know that once he is out in the spring he can build his own record.

Thanks both I'm now sure that the eventer maybe thought that I was really desperate to sell so I will be clear that I'm not and that his future matters just as much.
 
what are your own personal goals out of this? are you hoping to break even and buy something for yourself? or do you want to see if your boy can be produced on? how mature is your horse and how settled is he in in his training? and it sounds like the rearing was a phase too...

If you are going to get a good record for your horse and the eventer thinks he can go up the grades quickly (so say, get to Novice by mid season and possibly qualifying for a 1*) then you are really talking a different price bracket. A straightforward young horse, with BE points and a decent record at Novice and showing ability to go further will be worth anything from £25K upwards. Preference given to horses that don't exceed the 16.2 mark..A similar sounding young horse was up for £35K but really was anyones ride and had a very good record. Owner really didn't want to sell and lucky for her, sold another horse first. A horse with a good intermediate record, young and straightforward.. up another price bracket altogether!
 
Thanks this is really helpful , I do quite want to see him produced on but need to understand costs and potential value etc, hence my other thread. His half brother is already intermediate. The offer was £1K.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks this is really helpful , I do quite want to see him produced on but need to understand costs and potential value etc, hence my other thread. His half brother is already intermediate. The offer was £1K.
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Crikey! no wonder you raised a query! OK, so if he had a good say 3 runs at 100 and ready to go, say 8K ish + but if he goes to Novice and shows good form, its a good step up price wise as per the previous post.

I know you want to see him produced on, think you need to agree goals (how many runs, what level to get to) with your rider, commission if the horse will be sold? maybe lower sales/competition livery prices + x% sale price OR higher livery but no sales revenue. Costs of competing are high as well. Presume will need to go out for other shows as well as BE plus travel costs..
 
Wow even I can see that offer is taking the pee and I don't know much about eventers, for 1k I'd expect no more than a hacking horse and certainly not of that breeding with siblings already doing well :-/
 
IIWY, I would get him home and employ a freelance rider. The pro is seeing a money making opportunity and they are doing it out of you not just out of improving the horse and making the sale. Get a rider who is quite flexible working for you, handle the advertising yourself and pay the rider to show him to people. You'll do much better than £1k. That is a p take if the horse is sound, moves OK and is ridable.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks very much Luci that's a really helpful insight. I will talk to the eventer this week to be clear on direction.
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My YO is a professional eventer and has already planned both her own and other horses outings and goals for next year as is effectively starting the work already so it's not a big ask!
 
Well if you take into account how much he is going to cost to run, say until June next year. (pinching figures from CR), assume £1k per month, to inc comp fees and fuel. So keep him for another seven months = £7000 invested in him.

If you can sell for £25k, you will be ok... however if you are going to only be able to sell for £5k, you will have lost money.
 
wench said:
Well if you take into account how much he is going to cost to run, say until June next year. (pinching figures from CR), assume £1k per month, to inc comp fees and fuel. So keep him for another seven months = £7000 invested in him.

If you can sell for £25k, you will be ok... however if you are going to only be able to sell for £5k, you will have lost money.
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I have already lost as he was sold as a RC horse for me:eek: far from it way too much horse when the calmers wore off. I was toying with the idea of turning him away at home and bringing back into work in spring but in practical sense It's a good idea but I can't keep him at home for the same reason as I can't ride him ... he needs someone used to competition horses.

I suppose I'm pressing on for him mainly to fix him with a future and also because I just won't have my back up against the wall, I might not know the ins and outs of this but my mummy didn't just knit me either:D

Thanks all.
 
A horse is only as good as his schooling/ability and behaviour at the present time. Breeding means absolutely nothing in a gelding. I used to have a boy that was from amazing eventing lines. His sire was the late and great Just a Monarch and his dam produced two 4* eventers but he hated jumping - I kept him though and he was my horse of a lifetime but had major issues as a baby with being uber sharp.

You have said that this horse is too much for you and although these guys I believe are taking the P with their £1K offer, I think you won't be getting much more for him as he stands.

Personally, if you are not going to get on him and enjoy him, then I would sell on and get something you can enjoy.
 
mcnaughty said:
A horse is only as good as his schooling/ability and behaviour at the present time. Breeding means absolutely nothing in a gelding. I used to have a boy that was from amazing eventing lines. His sire was the late and great Just a Monarch and his dam produced two 4* eventers but he hated jumping - I kept him though and he was my horse of a lifetime but had major issues as a baby with being uber sharp.

You have said that this horse is too much for you and although these guys I believe are taking the P with their £1K offer, I think you won't be getting much more for him as he stands.

Personally, if you are not going to get on him and enjoy him, then I would sell on and get something you can enjoy.
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Yes it just needs to be a sensible offer as he is sound , clean limbed and jumps well so aside of his past rearing issue he is a lovely lad. I have said she could find me something and have specified something that would be reasonable.

melbiswas said:
" my mummy didn't just knit me"

Love it! Will be borrowing that one !
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You are welcome the orig Scots is " ma mammy didnae jist knit me" :D
 
mcnaughty said:
A horse is only as good as his schooling/ability and behaviour at the present time. Breeding means absolutely nothing in a gelding. I used to have a boy that was from amazing eventing lines. His sire was the late and great Just a Monarch and his dam produced two 4* eventers but he hated jumping - I kept him though and he was my horse of a lifetime but had major issues as a baby with being uber sharp.

You have said that this horse is too much for you and although these guys I believe are taking the P with their £1K offer, I think you won't be getting much more for him as he stands.

Personally, if you are not going to get on him and enjoy him, then I would sell on and get something you can enjoy.
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I agree with this while 1k does seem to be a very low offer but the horse has a quirk which will means the pro will have to keep it or sell it to another pro or take a punt that they can sort it with time and sell it on at a high price.
A horse like needs work and paying for livery is only worth it when you are getting something out of it many people love having a competion horse away with a pro and get great pleasure from it.
Trainability and a rideable temperament are key to a pro making a good profit from a horse if either is lacking they can't pay much as they need an incentive to take the risk on a quirky horse.
I was honest when I gave you that 1k figure that was what I put away each month to run the horse away from home transport stabling at shows supplements bits and pieces of tack rugs and things like the physio and the odd vet visit it all mounted up.
 
I didn't think you were exaggerating GS:). He is still going well from the latest update and hasn't displayed his quirk for weeks now. I'm advised that he is going well , jumping well and easy to do and responsive. So I'm hopeful that we can either come to an arrangement on price or a swap as I've said it would be an excellent home.
 
Shivvy said:
I didn't think you were exaggerating GS:). He is still going well from the latest update and hasn't displayed his quirk for weeks now. I'm advised that he is going well , jumping well and easy to do and responsive. So I'm hopeful that we can either come to an arrangement on price or a swap as I've said it would be an excellent home.
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That would be a good outcome for both you and the horse, well done for doing right by him and ensuring he has the best chance he can of a happy and successful life.
 
i smell a rat, don't believe the pro would want him if they thought he was rubbish, they either think he will do well or they can sell him for a profit so the quirk can't be that bad!, thats the business they are in!!
 
mjcssjw2 said:
i smell a rat, don't believe the pro would want him if they thought he was rubbish, they either think he will do well or they can sell him for a profit so the quirk can't be that bad!, thats the business they are in!!
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Yes I know that is the case. I don't want to sell for that price and have said as much and to be fair they have made a good start with him. So do I think the hand was overplayed? Yes but I'm not going to let that affect sorting him out.
 
mjcssjw2 said:
i smell a rat, don't believe the pro would want him if they thought he was rubbish, they either think he will do well or they can sell him for a profit so the quirk can't be that bad!, thats the business they are in!!
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Of course the pro does not think the horse is rubbish but the pro needs to make a profit and has to cost every hour they spend on the horse plus the cost of keeping it .
That's why they are pros they have the ability to make horse pay yes the pro is looking to make a profit that's one of the ways they pay the bills Shivvy will negiogate the best deal she can and part of that calculation is every weeks livery is money she has spent.
This is a talented horse with a quirk I don't think the pro has ever said it is rubbish just complicated.
The last talented horse with a quirk I sold to a pro was a more than Shivvy has been offered and was a beauiful type out of a proven mare but difficult and that was a the hieght of the market that horse was sold on as the pro found even they could not devote enough time to the horse and sold to the working pupil of another pro where it still is ( last time I saw them )
 
Shivvy he is your horse, you do as you want and what suits you :-)

Golden star thats what I meant when I said that's the business they are in, they are out to make a living.

When I say the can't think the horse is rubbish another way of putting is would be that they must think there is some talent there even if it needs nuturing.
 
mjcssjw2 said:
Shivvy he is your horse, you do as you want and what suits you :-)

Golden star thats what I meant when I said that's the business they are in, they are out to make a living.

When I say the can't think the horse is rubbish another way of putting is would be that they must think there is some talent there even if it needs nuturing.
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Thanks that was my thinking too:)
 
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