pricing of event horses

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Kelpie

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I'm not in the market at the moment so forgive me but this is just a bit of an academic musing..... or hopefully planning for the future....

Anyway, my musing, which I hope some of you may join me on, is event horse prices.

Looking at various for sale adds, there seems to be quite a lot of contradiction and I can't figure out why. So, you see 5yo's that have gone and done a few 90's, up for £12-15k+++ and yet you also see horses that are maybe older by a couple of years but with more under their belt but for less money. Are you paying for some sort of "hope value" with a 5yo?

I'd be really interest in views on what the typical price brackets are for the various sorts of horses that would be for sale. Like the 5yo, nicely bred, done a bit but not loads vs the 6yo done more, maybe already stepped up to novice (though actually personally this puts me off, I prefer my 6yo's to have done less, but then I'm a bunny hugger ;) ) vs something that is confirmed at novice/ intermediate, etc.?

Also, price comparisons for something that has been with a pro vs something that has been with an amateur - does that affect price a lot or does it more affect saleability (I know some people prefer not to buy from pro's?). Or maybe with an amateur you accept blips on the record more readily than you do with a pro, but at what point do you say something is more than a blip?

I know there is another thread running about possibly a horse being good for the JNR market, but if I'm honest I'm not sure if that makes the price tag go up or down? When someone says suitable for the JNR market, are they saying that basically the horse is easy enough for a JNR but doesn't have the scope to go all the way? But then anyway, unless you're a 4* eventer, how far does a horse really have to have the scope for to keep the average eventer happy (bearing in mind that most eventers tend not to do much above novice, in all honesty, do they? - I mean when you look at the statistics of how many people compete at what level...)

Virtual tea and biscuits for any fellow musers :)
 
Not an expert but a horse suitable for JRN will generally be a relatively easy horse with the capability of being ridden round a 1* track by a youngster probably coming off ponies. They command a decent price price because they will be forgiving and know their job, good JRN horses will always be expensive and usually they are not younger than 9 or so. With regard to 5/ 6year olds, IMO its all about potential. I don't think it's easy to spot the horse that will be a 4* horse at this age but I do think you can see the scope, temperament and ability to go further than novice and this is what puts the price up. If a horse has been competed up to novice with a good record and looks to have the ability to go further, Ifeel this pushes the price up.
 
The introduction of the 90/100 grass roots championships has probably bumped the price up for the high end of the low end of eventing ( does that make sense!) ie the horse that is easy, and consistently placed at those levels, but isn't good enough for novice
 
I'm another without a clue so watching this closely :). Then again, a lot of pricing of horses makes no sense to me - a well-bred but badly broken done-nothing 5 year-old is advertised for £4k, but a 6yo who's done more and is more established is £3k.

A 6yo at Novice (or with a lot of runs) would also put me off simply from a wear-and-tear angle.
 
It is Hope Value. Just how many of those 2012 Olympic Horses for sale in H & H actually got there in the end?

It is easier to put a big price on a horse that has done well so far, but hasn't been asked a real question yet - "Great Potential".
 
It is impossible to price horses on paper really, you have to look at the inidividual. A friend of mine has just sold a 6yo for 100k, on paper he probably looks much the same as horses advertised for 25k. A horse is worth what someone will pay for it - cliche I know, but happens to be true ;)
 
Thank you so much for the replies so far. At least I sort of feel better knowing that I'm not the only one that finds some pricing odd.

Totally agree that it is true that it's about what someone will pay, but just sort of figured there would be kinda more standard price brackets for certain things (generalising massively, I do accept)?

It also does really surprise me that there are so many people (not on this thread, but generally, I mean) that seem to think a 5yo or 6yo ought to have done actually quite a fair amount of eventing and that should up the price tag. Personally I'd much rather a 6yo that has done a few 90's and maybe a bit of unaffiliated as a 5yo (or maybe not anything if they were big and gangly and immature) than a 6yo that has already gone novice but the market seems to not go that way?
 
Kelpie said:
It also does really surprise me that there are so many people (not on this thread, but generally, I mean) that seem to think a 5yo or 6yo ought to have done actually quite a fair amount of eventing and that should up the price tag. Personally I'd much rather a 6yo that has done a few 90's and maybe a bit of unaffiliated as a 5yo (or maybe not anything if they were big and gangly and immature) than a 6yo that has already gone novice but the market seems to not go that way?
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I agree with you - but people don't seem to want to take their time with youngsters anymore. Probably a reflection on the instant gratification we've become accustomed to in our society. Mine will probably do 2 unaff ODEs at 65 and 75cm next summer (she'll be 5 in May), with her first BE80 in 2016 when she's 6. I don't understand rushing them up the grades and saying youngsters 'have' to be out competing from their 4th year (as shown by a thread currently running on here....).
 
Depends on the horse though. If they are really naturally talented, jumping novice as a 6yo is probably not actually that stressful for them if well within their capabilities. If novice was a strain for them ability wise, then yes, doing it at 6 is probably not so clever. Also don't forget a lot depends on their type - a TB is going to be a lot more mature at that age than a big solid Irish horse would be.
 
Mydogisanidiot .... A person after my own heart!

Rachel, I know what you mean, even though I am not totally sure that is right from a skeletal perspective..... (a debate for another thread!)
 
Basically price wise I think comes down to a combination of:- potential, rideability, comp record, and breeding and conformation/looks. Different buyers place different importance on each. To get on a junior team now you need a horse with really super flashy paces, which can put up with a bit of a numpty, straight and honest to a fence- but it never needs to go very fast or jump more than 1.10/1.15 so it is a completely different prospect to your potential 3/4* horse

Jumping around a couple of novices with a pro at the end of their 6yo year, having had a sympathetic and complete education to that point without being missed every other fence etc, is easier and less stressful on a horse than a 7yo which has had a couple of years of bad, even if unaffiliated, competition riding and poor schooling up to 1m...
 
this seems a bit harsh, to get on the junior's team (and I assume you are talking about the British team) you not only need an excellent horse but you also need to be able to ride. I wouldn't describe any of the past GB junior riders as numpties and many of them are now our best professional riders. If you are talking about JRN riders, then you are talking about riders who are under 18, probably coming off ponies and yes, they need straightforward well schooled horses who know their job because they will make mistakes but this doesn't make them a numpty. But what parent would want to put their child on anything different for a first introduction to novice level courses which these days are very technical I apologise if I have misunderstood you.
sportsmansB said:
To get on a junior team now you need a horse with really super flashy paces, which can put up with a bit of a numpty, straight and honest to a fence- but it never needs to go very fast or jump more than 1.10/1.15 so it is a completely different prospect to your potential 3/4* horse

Jumping around a couple of novices with a pro at the end of their 6yo year, having had a sympathetic and complete education to that point without being missed every other fence etc, is easier and less stressful on a horse than a 7yo which has had a couple of years of bad, even if unaffiliated, competition riding and poor schooling up to 1m...
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oldie48 said:
this seems a bit harsh, to get on the junior's team (and I assume you are talking about the British team) you not only need an excellent horse but you also need to be able to ride. I wouldn't describe any of the past GB junior riders as numpties and many of them are now our best professional riders. If you are talking about JRN riders, then you are talking about riders who are under 18, probably coming off ponies and yes, they need straightforward well schooled horses who know their job because they will make mistakes but this doesn't make them a numpty. But what parent would want to put their child on anything different for a first introduction to novice level courses which these days are very technical I apologise if I have misunderstood you.
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It's not really that harsh. Juniors are in the same age group as JRN. Yes they probably mostly have more experience but they are competing at intermediate in their trials. At that age they will make mistakes however talented they may be (some are but some are less so). It is because of these mistakes that they learn and become better riders. A few go on to be good professional riders but the majority either compete as amateurs or give up.
 
Interesting..... and I guess one person's idea of a numpty is not another's ...... I know I don't jump enough different horses to always put them 100% right to a fence but then I do also do a lot with my horses so they learn to be clever with their feet (loose jumping, lots of Lucinda Green style practice things, etc). Does that make me a numpty rider (wait, no, don't answer that ;) )

So, if we were to put a price tag on a horse, what would we be saying?

So, for example, what would you get for a £10-£15k bracket vs a £15-20k bracket vs a £20-£30k bracket, etc??
 
There are basically two points that have come to the fore here one being junior horses .I am afraid to say if you ever wish to see the most ineot and dangerous riding go and watch JRN sections at BE . I do not say that lightly but from many years watching and fence judging. There have over the years been many very good horses that have been totally ruined once got hold of by juniors for who the inflated money they spent on the horse would have been better spent on some riding lessons.

Now the question asked about what you get for various price levels well that is an impossible question as there are so many variables and people put different values on aspects of a horses ability.
YUou will ultimately get what a buyer in the flesh will give you. Every week you will see horses advertised for X however many will change hands for half that amount when the money comes out.
The real skill with selling is pitching the horse at the right market at the right price. Its a fact of life that undervaluing a horse you are selling can be as damaging to the prospect of a sale as overvaluing it.
 
Blimey... I am obviously a bit naive on jnr stuff as I never went that route (though the couple I know we're sadly insuch a rush to do what they had to, they sadly had little care for their horses, which I hate....but don't know if that's the norm?) . That and the comments above would now worry me selling to the jnr market - though I dunno, you get people that push for competition over their horses wellbeing at all levels don't you?
 
I wouldn't worry about selling to a junior. The horse would be as well cared for as anywhere else and loved it's just that it needs to have a forgiving nature just like for any inexperienced rider. They aren't all numptys but all those lacking experience (and some that aren't) will do numptys things at times, some more often than others, and horses of a fragile/sensitive nature are more likely to get confused and upset. This is an asset that costs money.
 
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