pro reaction to grassroots at Badminton

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ajn1610

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Has anyone else heard that some pro riders are rather negative about Badminton holding the grassroots final? I've seen a few reports and comments to this effect and someone has told me the pro rider that teaches them on a regular basis has refused to course walk with them as he feels he would be pilloried for doing it. Seems a bit off to me.
As far as I can see our entry fees support their sport, us lowly grassrooters turning up at big events provide the numbers organisers use to attract the sponsorship deals that pay for their prize money. I'm sure many of them generate a considerable portion of their income from lessons, clinics, appearances and demos that we attend. It's really wound me up.
 
I do hope that its just a bit of rubbish gossip, as if its true then that is just so so sad. After all, they were grassroots riders themselves once
 
I can't imagine that this is the view of all 'pros'. A lot of their bread and butter comes from teaching and a lot of their customers will be grassroots eventers so having this kind of attitude is a bit disingenuous. Certainly the 'pro' I have lessons with encourages and humours me when I tell him I will see him at Badminton some year soon.....:rolleyes: :D
 
My 'Pro' is also incredibly supportive, when we've been at the same events she's helped me warm up and even leaping off her ride leaving it with my mum at the XC finish and sprinting to me at the start box for some last minute tips on how to ride a course - this is why I love her and have been having lessons from her for more than a decade!
I really hope this is either being played up by the press or a case of a minority of people just being unpleasant because I honestly found it quite upsetting.
 
I think its good for the sport. I am sure if pros could qualify they would be there on their decent baby horses!
 
I may be mistaken but I got the impression that some of the pros were more concerned about keeping their horses calm enough to dressage whilst the Grassroots riders were going cross country!. Some super fit event horses can only just keep a lid on it in the Badminton atmosphere anyway-hearing whistles etc may push some over the edge!!!!!!!
 
Well, I was told by a semi pro who has done Badminton that she thought it was disgusting that the Intro and PN Champs were at Badminton as she thought it 'took it away' from the the people who had got to the 4* 'real' Badminton.

She said us Grassroots lot should've stayed at Aston Le Walls!

I said "what about Gatcombe, that would've been nice too?" and she said "oh no.... no no no... Aston!"
 
Given the reported negativity from some of the pro riders a course walk with Johnathan Chapman has been arranged for those BRC members who have qualified for the grassroots champs - 66 in total I think. This will take place on the evening of Thursday 29th, over both courses (which run side by side).
 
madhossy said:
Well, I was told by a semi pro who has done Badminton that she thought it was disgusting that the Intro and PN Champs were at Badminton as she thought it 'took it away' from the the people who had got to the 4* 'real' Badminton.
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Wow! That's mean. I can understand them not wanting to have the commentary and whistles from the grassroots XC setting their horse off in the dressage, but really...
 
i have heard from several pros that they are worried about keeping their horses calm when the Grassroots xc is going on, the tannoy can be heard up at the dressage arena etc.

I have also heard from top trainers that they don't think the Grassroots should be there at all as it takes away from the best event in the world- i even heard one person say they thought it could be confusing for foreign visitors who may think people competing in the Grassroots are in the Badminton 'proper' competition (can't see this myself).

i think it is fab they are holding it at Badminton but i guess none of the above concerns worry me!
 
Maybe it's a bit unfair for those who have qualified for the novice/int champs? Mind you, Gatcombe is lovely too!
 
The whole *keeping a lid on the horse whilst doing dressage* thing really pees me off TBH. Fact is the horses SHOULD be able to keep their attention on their rider at all times, isn't that what 4* is about? A horse that has come up through the ranks, being exposed to all types of distraction, but has risen to the top of it's game through good training and partnership with the rider? These horses have all done Adv one days where other things are going on at the same time, it isn't as tho this will be a new experience for them, albeit of course there will be more atmosphere, but that will blatantly SHOW whose horse is well mannered enough to keep a lid on it and whose isn't!

Sure, sure there is the argument that the best horses need a bit of sparkle to be able to show off and express themselves better than an average horse, but I still feel that an advanced horse of Badminton calibre should be able to control itself, and an advanced rider of Badminton calibre should not be whinging.

Smacks of the whole *unmounted prize giving* debacle in the dressage world.
 
I agree with Weezy - horses at that level do plenty of one day events where they can hear XC at the same time as they do dressage. They will also have had to cope with country fairs etc and loads going on. If there is any sour grapes I think it is totally pathetic. There is a huge amount of negativity in the world, sadly, and this may be just one more example. I'm sure once the sad, unimaginative, insecure few who have a problem get used to it they will find it isn't so bad after all ;) FWIW though, personally I haven't heard any rumblings.
 
I've defo heard some moaning and the angle it's been coming from, is that on friday when xc will be running. 'The poor darling' will not be able to warm up their advance horses up. WHAT complete POPPY COCK!!!!!!, we aren't talking their green 5yrs olds we're talking about experienced horses who have been there and got T-shirt shop!!!! Cos their horses have never done a one day event!!!!!!!!!!! when all three phases are runing errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Mee think it's a bit of the green eyed monster symdrome aswell!!!

I have to add that i also heard that alot of 'the pro' are very, very supportive and think its great for their sport. And i wish to thank BE and all the sponsors of the Grassroots, it can only add value to the sport of eventing - thank you
 
i haven't heard any rumblings, fwiw. good on those who are going to the Grassroots... good luck to all of them.
BUT i do think that it will give a big advantage to the 4* horses doing Dr on Thurs as opposed to Friday. it's all very well saying "4* horses are experienced and should be able to cope with tannoy, whistles etc" BUT the atmosphere at a 4* is HUGE compared to 1-days, we've seen lots of usually-very-well-behaved horses absolutely flip their lids at Badminton and Burghley... jeez, even the area where visitors can leave their dogs (so their barking can be heard from the arena) was enough to ruin a certain former team horse's dressage at Burghley, year after year, iirc!
can't help thinking that if Grassroots was running a day earlier, so no xc on Thurs or Fri, it would be far fairer on all the 4* competitors...
 
kerilli said:
i haven't heard any rumblings, fwiw. good on those who are going to the Grassroots... good luck to all of them.
BUT i do think that it will give a big advantage to the 4* horses doing Dr on Thurs as opposed to Friday. it's all very well saying "4* horses are experienced and should be able to cope with tannoy, whistles etc" BUT the atmosphere at a 4* is HUGE compared to 1-days, we've seen lots of usually-very-well-behaved horses absolutely flip their lids at Badminton and Burghley... jeez, even the area where visitors can leave their dogs (so their barking can be heard from the arena) was enough to ruin a certain former team horse's dressage at Burghley, year after year, iirc!
can't help thinking that if Grassroots was running a day earlier, so no xc on Thurs or Fri, it would be far fairer on all the 4* competitors...
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The 4* horses are doing dressage Friday and saturday...

FWIW, I think there is a HUGE amount of atmosphere at 4* regardless of whether anything else is going on the same day or not. The horses would have all done 3days before, they know what it is all about, and they will either be wound up already, or not!
 
Ooopsy, of course, i can't get used to this idea of it all being a day on from usual, sorry!
in that case, no excuse for any carping then, it's a big achievement for anyone, and I don't think it takes anything away from those doing the 4*.
 
what an utter load of poppycock...whoever these riders are they should count there lucky stars that they are living many peoples dreams! For some people, this may be the only time they get to ride at such a prestigious event. Some people have put every spare hour into preparing there horse/pony for the grassroots champs as they know they may never get the chance to ride there again whether it be in the grassroots or the 4* competition. These riders should be privilidged to see people compete, as they are the future and they fund the top end of the sport. without us 'lowly' grassroots competitiors, there wouldn't be a sport without serious funding issues. Sorry bit passionate about this - friend has qualified and is working her socks off for this weekend.
 
I can see it from both sides, daughter is in 4* and i must admit I hope she is on on the sat dressage, as tensions are high enough anyway without other distractions. It was every little girls/boys dream of riding at Badminton and because it is quite unaccessable for many gave it that extra thrill that you had managed to train a horse to that level. we are semi professional by the way daughter only rides and produces her own horses.
BUT i do think it is fantastic also for the grassroots riders a wonderful achievement, and I hope they all thoroughly enjoy themselves and drink in the atmosphere. Hugh Thomas says most of their stuff is over on the old steeplchase course, including stabling whilst we have the badminton stables so it is still quite special for us. We love every moment that drive into Badminton is something else. Enjoy 'grassroots' competitors hope you all have a wonderful time. I hope we might have a pupil going there one day.
 
zebedee said:
Given the reported negativity from some of the pro riders a course walk with Johnathan Chapman has been arranged for those BRC members who have qualified for the grassroots champs - 66 in total I think. This will take place on the evening of Thursday 29th, over both courses (which run side by side).
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Bondi'd owner was meant to be going but broke her collarbone at Aston a couple of weeks ago and has had to withdraw sadly. Jonathon is her instructor and I think she is still going to go along for the course walk and to see what she's aiming for for next year.

I think its quite off of other pro's to be so negative about it. Its quite exciting for the riders and if it were me I would feel very belittled by these comments **if ** they have been said and not twisted.
 
I think it will make it quite unfair for the 4* riders doing the dressage on the day the XC isnt running - will definitely be an advantage - as presumably they will have to hack up to the dressage past the XC track and sight of horse competing - and the sound of tannoys. These are mega-fit horses and it wont take a lot to make the difference between a good test and one that gets too stressed by other distractions. So if it was both days it might be fair, but not fair if not the same for all the 4* riders...

Nothing against the Grassroots being at Badminton, its a great idea - but after all, most of the spectators will be there for the 4*, so that has to be the priority
 
I can see both sides of the argument.

I do actually wonder if some horses will behave better with the XC going on then without. I take my old boy Dan as an example. Small quiet local BSJA show on occasion he would look at everything and be a complete twit especially if something else misbehaved/took off/crashed through fence etc, took him to Blue Chip champs one year and Devon County show and he behaved like a saint despite JCBs 'dancing' in the arena metres away, trade stands galore, fun rides etc. The busier the environment it was the better it was for him as one thing didn't stand out it just blurred into the surrounding enviroment. So if its actually a bit busier I wouldn't be suprised if some horses behave better, but on the same vein some horses might well be adverse to XC going on but as others had said they should be used to it at their level considering the amount of ODEs they will have done!
 
There will be no advantage being on the Saturday this year as I believe it will be incredibly busy and in fact more distracting as twice the number of people watching dressage as normal. In fact I am not going on dressage day this year as think it will be really busy.
Barbury CIC3* is hugely atmospheric and right next to the cross country so believe that this is all in the riders minds as its BADMINTON!
 
I can see both sideof the arguments, and both pros and grassroots can argue time/effort/money etc. But you know its the first year, things have to be tried for improvements to be made.

If it is easier for the badminton organisors to combine 4* dressage with GR xc then it is worth a try. If it doesnt work, next year will be changed surely?

The grassroots have stables, arena, and xc all seperate from the 4*. and if 4* riders have that many concerns (whether in regard to safety or equality) they should stand up and say them out loud and on record instead of rumours.

Badminton didnt offer to host the GR for the sake of it, hours of time and effort goes into these events, is it possible that badminton was trying to create extra revenue? increase the numbers through the gate?! instead of attacking maybe the 4* riders should question if this is a way for their event to survive and evolve under present financial times

Grassroots and 4*s, go out have fun and enjoy the event that you qualified for!

ETS- In no way implying badminton is struggling financially just personal thought!
 
Maybe the pro riders should take into account that the money that Badminton maybe making hosting the Grassroots Final, could well be contributing to improving the facilities available for the 4*.

It looks great for the sport to have the final at such a prestigious event and I doubt that any pros will withdraw from Badminton just because it is sharing a little bit of their limelight. Good luck to all those that have qualified!!
 
If the grassroots XC course is out where the steeplechase used to be, then why on earth would the dressage horses in the main arena be upset by the whistles/xc going on?!

If pros are complaining, then they all need to stop being so precious.
 
saratoga the grassrotts SJ and Dressage is in the steeplechase field. The XC starts and finshes there (or very nearby I think) but goes all around the grounds and in areas runs next to the 4* course, for example it goes through the top of the lake and by the quarry and steps, so although not admittedly next door to the main arena it won't run too far away.
 
santa145 said:
saratoga the grassrotts SJ and Dressage is in the steeplechase field. The XC starts and finshes there (or very nearby I think) but goes all around the grounds and in areas runs next to the 4* course, for example it goes through the top of the lake and by the quarry and steps, so although not admittedly next door to the main arena it won't run too far away.
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Ah ok, was thinking that i know 4* horses can be sensitive, but maybe not that sensitive!!!
 
There are several points that are cause for concern. The 4* dressage will be in the centre of the grassroots cross country. This entails crossing it on the way to ride in and the course goes alongside the route to the warm up arenas. The course appears to pass reasonably close to the warm up, particularly where Saturday's competitors work their horses. The tannoys, whistles (there is talk that there won't be any but that doesn't sound very safe), possibility of a loose horse, etc. mean only 1 thing to a high couraged, super-fit horse. There may be more people on Saturday than there used to be on Friday but most of the extra will be interested in walking the course and shopping. Most of those that were interested in the dressage used to go on the Friday anyway so the playing field doesn't look level. A few extra people in the stands won't make a huge difference.
To say that the horses should be obedient and listen to their riders is idealistic and shows a lack of appreciation of how fine-tuned some of these horses are. Some have an easier temperament but others there is little or no margin for error and even then they can't contain themselves. Lenamore, for instance, is hacked from the stables, timed to arrive at the arena in time to go straight in and no earlier. I guess Caroline is glad he is not on Friday and I would suspect that Daisy is hoping Springalong will be on Saturday. Yes they all do one day events but some don't do many and they are not necessarily expected to perform at as near maximum power as possible. If they are hot they may well be ridden underpowered to keep the lid on. You don't go to Badminton as a training exercise. Yes Barbury has the dressage near the cross country but it is a completely different type of competition as it is not an end goal, it is a stepping stone and the horses perform with their friends still in sight.
The 4* riders are not against the grassroots as such but they need to be able to focus on their job without extra hazards.
 
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