Probably a stupid question about dressage: legs and seat.

dressagelove

dressagelove

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Im struggling with my legs for dressage. I want a long, relaxed leg, obviously, which I can get, but then when I need to use my leg aids it all goes to pot. I start 'holding' myself with my upper thigh and seat, and feel like I tense up all around my hips. And my heel creeps up.

How should your dressage legs work? Should they be long and soft all the time? And should your leg be on all the time, or does it just go on when you are asking for something? Ie. it goes on to turn / more forwards / to collect etc. And then it comes off again until the next thing you ask for? Probably a stupid question :S

It is getting better, my leg is ten times longer already, but I have recently lengthened my stirrups and since then, my whole lower body position feels loser. I can just feel that once I 'tighten' it up, I will be so much looser, relaxed and still be able to ask for what I want with my legs. As I say, my leg is longer, but now when I ask for something my hips and thighs just tense up! Is it just practice? When I am not asking for anything, he is still nicely forwards, so its not like I am nagging all the time.

A glass of red for someone can make sense of that...? :)
 
Now and then......like when my KWPN sees an umbrella.....My legs feel spot on,long,relaxed.....I feel like Carl H looks.......but when I have to use them to create the impulsion you get from umbrellas, I get the same same heels up/tight inner thigh that you mention.
I am currently working on the 'less is more' technique because I think the problem might stem from trying too hard and 'over aiding'.

I will be interested in other replies on this one.
 
abitodd said:
I will be interested in other replies on this one.
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Me too. I have short stocky legs (hobbit really) that won't play nicely :( I don't ride often enough to get much practice in, and am allrightish when there's plenty of impulsion going spare, but otherwise - gah! I'm stretching my adductors every morning when I do my pilates and when I give an aid I try always to use the leg, drop it down, use again if necessary (also good for stopping yourself nagging). But it's so hard *wails*!!
 
I have this prob exactly! Burnttoast, what exercise do you do to stretch? I'm gona have to try and find a pilates class. I am like a piece of wood....am supposed to be 23 but have body of frozen dead body I'm so stiff! I find if I lengthen my stirrups my heel creeps up too easily?
 
I would say your horse isnt off your leg enough.
My legs go on when I ask for something and then come off again until the next aid. The only time I will keep my leg wrapped is if I am asking for something such as a lateral movement and even then it is more wrapped than applying pressure.
It comes with practise but I would really work on getting your horse more off your leg.
 
Good stretches to get your legs in the right place are firstly to pull your legs up away from your horses sides, as if you were going to do a big pony club kick, put a hand on the front of the saddle to balance if need be, then put your legs back. Next swing your lower leg back and up to stretch your quads out, try not to lean forwards when you do this.

To keep them there I try to think of using my legs down and forwards rather than drawing my heel up to nudge, it takes a lot of concentration though. It also helps to make sure you're really sitting up really straight and keep pushing your weight down.

Hope this helps a bit, not sure if I've explained it very well.
 
Lots of core strengthening work and stretches for the hamstrings have helped me. Try and keep your lower back free and your hips should free up, try not to push too much weight down in the heel/strirup as well - this is bad habit I have. I think a lot of it can be psycoligical, think relaxed and free through the body and the leg will hopefully hang nice.
 
I would start with the fit of your saddle as it may be making you grip if its not level

Your stirrup bars may not be in the right place for your leg to hang under your body.

If the above okay, I would then check your upper body as there is usually tension or balance issue that is making you use your leg to stay in the saddle.
 
Thanks all. I do have terrible flexibility actually. My OH has just helped me do some stretches; he's a sports coach, and apparently I am really lacking flexibility! So going to do some stretches and see if that helps...
 
Why don't you have a couple of lunge lessons with a good instructor. They should be able to help answer your questions and give you some good exercises to help. I recently had a lunge lesson with the fabulous Ali at Talland which really helped sort out some basic positioning
 
Herts05 said:
Why don't you have a couple of lunge lessons with a good instructor. They should be able to help answer your questions and give you some good exercises to help. I recently had a lunge lesson with the fabulous Ali at Talland which really helped sort out some basic positioning
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I would do that, but there arent many good places for that around me. And atm I am so poor, all spare cash is going on feed, and competition fees! lol. Im in my last year at uni, so when I start working I could afford one :D so thats why am looking for tips to try on my own first :D
 
Firstly, yes, lunge lessons are fab for your position. The more you do without strirrups the better too, so if you can get your instructor to lunge you without stirrups this will really help, as your instructor will create the horses impulsion and you can concentrate on how you are sitting.

Secondly, don't worry about getting your stirrups too long too fast. The ideal is that when your leg has been worked without strirrups the strirrup should hang level with the ankle, so that you just need to lift your toe to go into the strirrup. However, if you find you are reaching down for your stirrup (this is esp noticable in rising trot) this will do more harm than good to your position, so take them up a hole or two with the aim of getting them back down.

Thirdly, you talk about a loose leg, but you do need a little pressure in your leg, mostly in the inner thigh, and then contact between your knee and the block/ flap of the saddle. Kicking away your stirrups and holding yourself in a rising trot position (or jumping position if you prefer to think of it this way) is a good test of this. It's easier out on a hack going up a steepish hill I find so maybe start there.

If your saddle's front roll isn't in the right place for you this won't help the stability of your leg either. Your lower leg should then hang loose, so if you're needing to kick all the time do some sharpening work with your horse - lots of trot, halt, trot and walk, canter, walk. Once your mastered this rein back canter is also great for getting them thinking forwards from the leg.

Good luck, this is def something that will improve with practise.
 
I'm the same as you at the moment.
I give him a wee nudge and my heels come up and my right is a lot worse than my left :o
my instructor told me to nudge with my ankle rather than my heel so we'll see how I get on this afternoon.

one stretch I've been doing for my hips is a sort of lunge but you put your back knee on the floor and lean forwards :) I have seriously dodgy hips :p
 
kerryflower said:
I have this prob exactly! Burnttoast, what exercise do you do to stretch? I'm gona have to try and find a pilates class. I am like a piece of wood....am supposed to be 23 but have body of frozen dead body I'm so stiff! I find if I lengthen my stirrups my heel creeps up too easily?
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I stretch after I've done my knee drops (ie, lying on back, knees up, each knee alternately out to side then bring it back) - I just let both knees fall open, feet together, allow the stretch for about 30 seconds, repeat. It is best done when the muscles are warm, hence doing it then. The remedial pilates is the best thing I've ever done for my body. I had a private session with my instructor (who is very skilled at seeing crookedness) and now have half an hours' worth tailored to my uselessness .... I try to do it every morning, plus a normal class once a week (helps tbh that I don't have a horse, or I'd never find the time).
 
I am no competition rider, but personally I enjoy a sensitive responsive horse and riding should not be hard work imo. So I don't like to ride with 'legs on' all the time. The only time I might do that is if the horse is being nappy or spooky and needs reassurance and coercing into a situation.

I like to give a gentle aid and for my horse to recognise and then maintain the pace asked for until I signal for a change. Of course that doesn't always work and I may need to 'remind' my horse every so often.
The biggest 'hate to see' for me is nagging legs and sadly so many dressage riders get into this dreadful habit. It looks ugly to me and it must infuriate the hell out of the horse - it must be like a boss saying 'keep going, 'keep going' 'keep going' repeatedly. :)

A good and cheap way to learn is to watch good riders - watch what they do, how they sit, how they ask. You can't study good riders enough and try and incorporate some of their methods. Also 'walk' is a very underestimated gait - get it right in walk and everything else will follow. Practice your posture and balance and be very aware of your hands and aids - do lots of upward and downward transitions (even just a few paces) being very aware of your seat, hands, aids, legs etc.Your horse will become more and more responsive to your seat and you shifting your weight and using discreet aids the more you practice. ALso I always use a neckstrap - that way whatever discipline I am doing I never have to worry about needing extra security or balance, I can just reach and grab the strap :)
 
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Polotash said:
Secondly, don't worry about getting your stirrups too long too fast. The ideal is that when your leg has been worked without strirrups the strirrup should hang level with the ankle, so that you just need to lift your toe to go into the strirrup. However, if you find you are reaching down for your stirrup (this is esp noticable in rising trot) this will do more harm than good to your position, so take them up a hole or two with the aim of getting them back down.

Thirdly, you talk about a loose leg, but you do need a little pressure in your leg, mostly in the inner thigh, and then contact between your knee and the block/ flap of the saddle. Kicking away your stirrups and holding yourself in a rising trot position (or jumping position if you prefer to think of it this way) is a good test of this. It's easier out on a hack going up a steepish hill I find so maybe start there.

If your saddle's front roll isn't in the right place for you this won't help the stability of your leg either. Your lower leg should then hang loose, so if you're needing to kick all the time do some sharpening work with your horse - lots of trot, halt, trot and walk, canter, walk. Once your mastered this rein back canter is also great for getting them thinking forwards from the leg.
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Thanks polotash, i found this bit especially useful ^
My instructors have commented on how straight cut my saddle is; it is a fairly small, albion. I cant remember the model name now, but its almost a WH saddle, it has practically no knee roll and I have fairly long legs; so Im struggling to stay within the confines of my saddle... A new saddle might be a good idea long term...

Thanks for the everyone for the other tips, I will play about with no stirrup work. Its not so much that I am reaching down in rising trot for the stirrup, as I say I have fairly long legs, but I find that my lower legs becomes a bit 'raggy' and I struggle to keep it in one place.

It is also probably working against me that my main DR horse is quite small, he is very fine, like a hat rack; and is only about 15.3hh. I struggle to keep my balance on him. My other horse is bigger; 16.1hh, and a lot 'chunkier' and I find there is much more 'horse' to ride and my leg is much stiller...
I'll post a picture to demonstrate... Sorry for the rubbish picture quality. This was during a lesson (smaller 15.3hh here) with helen bradley, where she really picked up on my leg:

231.jpg


I agree with everyone who has said get him more responsive to my leg and this should quieten my leg up, and as you say is practice :D
 
You have a very nice basic position from that pic, and your stirrup length looks fine for the depth of the horses body, certainly not too long.

Yes I know what you mean about being a bit big on them making it harder, I'm 5'8 and my my mums anglo arab is only 14.3, and I find on him my lower leg is hanging in space. You just need to think about riding him forwards using your calf, not your heel. I actually used to find I couldn't use spurs on him...
 
I would say you look a little pirched and you are right, to avoid this, you need to focus on your thigh/hip/seat - your seat is too light IMO, i doubt you can feel much going on underneath you. You need to take your stirrups away as often as humanely possible and try to emulate the feeling you get in your seat with a fully extended and relaxed leg and open hip joint when you take your pedals back. I would also agree that in an ideal world the beast beneath should go off one aid and maintain the instructed movement until told otherwise but seriously... how many of you have ever ridden a horse like that ;)
 
Polotash said:
You have a very nice basic position from that pic, and your stirrup length looks fine for the depth of the horses body, certainly not too long.

Yes I know what you mean about being a bit big on them making it harder, I'm 5'8 and my my mums anglo arab is only 14.3, and I find on him my lower leg is hanging in space. You just need to think about riding him forwards using your calf, not your heel. I actually used to find I couldn't use spurs on him...
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Agree with above, i have a PRE & a chunky WB. I actually find that the PRE makes me a better rider. This is due to him showing up all my faults due to him not taking my leg up as much as the WB. So really work on your leg position on the finer horse, i think not having big knee rolls is a plus tbh as it will help you have a natural good leg position that doesnt rely on a saddle to sort your position.
You are drawing the heel up when applying a leg aid in that photo, so you must retrain yourself to use the calf.
 
i think the upper body position is so important, sit tall, hips forward, chest expanded in a three point seat, head over bodyweight to enable the horse to balance under you, this will stabilize you and allow you to relax your legs down and gently adhere to the horses sides, in the correct position ready to give discreet aids, stop riding with spurs and learn to use your seat and legs to initiate movement.

you will know when you have improved by riding with safety stirrups with no bands on the sides, and find that you don't need them as the relaxed leg is weight enough in the stirrup, also don't press down your heel, let it be natural, but not up as that shows you are out of balance or leaning forward.
 
OP, thanks for this thread: hacked out this pm and concentrated on tips from here - using calves rather than heels and using legs forward and down not back and up (and thanks to posters of those tips). The difference was enormous and made me realise how easy it is to slip into bad habits ... Cheers all!

ETA: No prob Kerryflower. Should have added that I stretch other bits too, as directed by pilates teacher - in my case, left hamstring, right calf and right piriformis. Takes bloomin' ages to see a difference :( but it's worth it :)
 
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Burnttoast said:
OP, thanks for this thread: hacked out this pm and concentrated on tips from here - using calves rather than heels and using legs forward and down not back and up (and thanks to posters of those tips). The difference was enormous and made me realise how easy it is to slip into bad habits ... Cheers all!
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Me too :) I did the same, I do find it easier when hacking anyway, but hopefully this will translate more in the school as well... practice makes perfect as they say!
 
Yes, lots of impulsion (sometimes sideways inclined :rolleyes:) out hacking so can concentrate on position. V useful :D Worry about replicating it in the arena later...
 
it's important to sit straight and equal on the seat bones. very recently this lightbulb went on for me and my riding got so much better. your legs should hang naturally when you do this and your horse should move more evenly underneath you.
 
doubledutch said:
it's important to sit straight and equal on the seat bones. very recently this lightbulb went on for me and my riding got so much better. your legs should hang naturally when you do this and your horse should move more evenly underneath you.
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How do you know you're straight and equal though? What feels straight to me isn't - apparently I put more weight down through my right hip and we don't have mirrors to check ourselves.
I wonder if this is why I have trouble keeping my heels down (although they were better today)?
 
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