Probably in the wrong place but just so upset about my mare :(

[LankyDoodle]

That's it really.

Having lost my mare to laminitis 2 and a half weeks ago, after a 6 or 7 week battle, nursing her, sure she would get better, I just can't get over it. She wasn't even my ride, but was no less my horse.

I've just got back from the stables where one of the women (doesn't ride) was telling me she had been speaking to our vet at a party. He's treated her for the whole 12 years we had her, shared with another vet at the practice and now a third vet has also started treating our horses. Anyway, the vet at the party who had been her main vet for the 12 years, we will call him A, had apparently been a bit tipsy, as you are at parties usually, and got talking to her about our dead mare, saying 'it just shouldn't have happened to a horse like Sparkle', but all we ever did was what we were told to by our vets/farrier and all we ever did was the best by her. We spent hours nursing her, encouraging her and praying for her to get better and I feel like people like her who are really unknowledgeable are judging us. On the outside, when I say we did our best and we called it a day at the right time, she agrees and says 'of course you did' etc, but then she says what A said at the party and I am left thinking that even our vet thinks we did wrong. I don't know what more we could have done for her.

She was the best horse in the world, did so much for my confidence and my other horse's confidence, was so young, had so much to give, and we let her down... let her die. I just can't get over it. I am absolutely guilt-ridden, thinking about what we did, what we didn't do, what we should and shouldn't have done, whether we did things the vet didn't tell us we could do.

When he took blood tests there had been no sign of cushings or anything like that, but he said there were 2 or 3 inflamed readings which he said were more than likely related to the laminitis. He didn't tell us what was inflamed, although he spoke to my husband who is known for not probing enough. So we are oblivious to what was inflamed and always will be, but my feeling and the feeling of A seems to be that there was something underlying as she shouldn't have kept getting ill, kept getting attack after attack. She shouldn't have become a sinker.

I just don't know when this is going to get easier. At the moment I feel like selling my other horse and saying f it to keeping horses because I am obviously rubbish at it

 

[tikino]

try not to beet yourself up about this you are obviously still hurting. you have do best by your horse and have made the right dession at the right time. if you want to know more about the blood tests and are to upset to ask then send a letter to the vet who treated the horse and ask for him/her to clarifiy what was inflamed but DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP. its normal to feel like that and it does get better xxxx

 

[TURBOBERT]

Sounds as though your decision was the right one anyway. We all have to make difficult decisions about our friends - we do our best to get it right and follow advice given. Once the decision is made there is no point at all in going over and over it - move on I say snd try not to think about it. Sorry if that sounds callous - don't mean to be...

 

[angiebaby]

Oh Carrie, I wish I could make it go away for you.
People always start blabbing away at parties when they have been drinking

Like tikino says, if you need to know, then get tough with the vet.

Please don't even think about selling your other horse; Everything will be ok, keep looking at the photo's of her

and remember the good times. ((((((hugs)))))) x

 

[joeanne]

honey maybe what the vet meant was it was a crying shame this had happened to such a nice horse!
maybe he could have worded it better but i think he meant it was a shame such a nice horse had to go through something so crappy as laminitus.
if asked i think everyone would say you did the absolute best by her, and whilst her pain has ended yours will take time.
(((hug)))

 

[brightmount]

[ QUOTE ]
...maybe he could have worded it better but i think he meant it was a shame such a nice horse had to go through something so crappy as laminitus.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was in the middle of typing the same thing. I think you have misinterpreted his meaning.

I'm so sorry for the pain you are feeling, Sparkle was a lucky horse to be loved so much.

 

[Rowreach]

The same day you were posting that you thought the time had come to have your mare pts, I was posting about irresponsible horse owners not doing the right thing by their horses, having spent the day waiting for the vet (whose car had broken down) sitting in the stable with a dying pony (Cushings/lami/old age) whose stupid owner who should have had the pony pts months ago had b*****ed off to Spain having dumped the pony at my yard the night before. Said owner is now saying that the pony should not have been pts and blaming me for forcing her hand.

In my opinion, and I have been doing this a long time, you did exactly the right thing by your mare, having tried everything you could and taken professional advice on her care and treatment. You are probably right, there was something else going on there that stopped her recovery - if you want to know more, push the vet for the information, and feel free to tell him that you don't expect him to talk about your horse at parties to other people. It's totally unprofessional to do that.

From reading your posts about your mare, I was relieved when I heard you had taken the brave decision to have her pts.

Please don't give up horses - they need responsible owners like you.

 

[LankyDoodle]

Thank you all of you

I think he did mean that she was too lovely to have gone through that, but I also worry that he thinks we inflicted it upon her and stole a beautiful horse from the world

He is a great vet and if I know this busybody woman, like she freely admitted, she was cross-interrogating him about our horse, which was unfair, especially as he was sozzled!

I think I am going to talk to the vet about the bloods when things settle down. I trust his judgement about it being down to the laminitis, but I would feel better if I knew what it was.

Thank you again to you all. I loved her so much... such a special girl. I'll always miss her. As another lady at the yard said tonight, they just have such a big impact on your life, they're not machines and they are not little bunnies... I just could never have imagined the pain of not having her there.
x

 

[wjgfred]

Hi Carrie,

I tend to agree with some of the others, I read the comments you listed from your vet as being what a terrible shame it was that it had happened, and that it was unfair to you and the horse.

Having said that, it is not acceptable for your vet to be discussing your horse at a party, pissed or not. Also the person who told you should have had enough about them to realise that you would not want to hear it.

I dont think the vet was actually saying anything about your care. I have had to have 2 horses pts and on both occasions have gone round in circles questioning the what ifs and did I do the right thing. I think this is natural. It is the hardest decision we ever have to make and the most important sign of caring for our horse.

Hang in there.

Wendy

 

[Chumsmum]

(((BIG HUGS))) to you, you are hurting so much but you did the right thing and she was so lucky to have you.

Take care

C xx

 

[samuelhorse]

Carrie, wish i could make it better for you, it will take a long time, but it will. Deep down you know you did the right thing for Sparkle, you knew her best and you knew she was ready to go, I just wish i will be able to do it for my boy when he is ready to leave this world. I know too, i will be as devastated as you as I love him very much indeed, probably more than life itself.
Im sure the vet is referring to the fact you did everything you were told to do, and more, and she shouldnt have died, it wasnt fair. I have people on my yard that spout on what you should do and what you shouldnt do, but they are not the ones involved, it doesnt really matter to them at all.......
Big hugs xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[lhotse]

I really think he meant it in a sentimental way rather than a judgemental way. I'm sure he knows you did everything possible. xx

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Carrie, stay strong chick and true to your beliefs. Like everyone has said, the vet was pissed and people do brag and yabber at parties to impress. Vet shouldn't have discussed any details at all about a client and when you feel the time is right, I'd tell them how it made you feel. Let them share some of your pain. And I don't think much of the woman who passed on the drunken ramblings to you knowing how much it would hurt you.

You did right by Sparkle. I would have done exactly the same if it had been my Sunny. She's at peace now. Remember her standing in her favourite field with the sun on her back. Thinking of you xxxxx

 

[brighteyes]

Often, there simply isn't anything else you can do to prevent a horse from slipping away. From time to time there will be a catastrophic chain of events which lead inexorably to a horse's death and there's not a damn thing will stop it

My friend has a lovely pony which is Insulin Resistant and lives on a knife-edge twixt laminitis and reasonable soundness. Friend is now trying to combat the effects of overfeeding a native pony by showing people hell bent on getting topline. I'll bet the pony was pre-disposed to it and the overfeeding triggered IR. Whatever, said pony now has The Sword of Damocles hanging over it through no fault of the current owner. Ultimately this battle will be lost and another pony who is the PPCP and an angel with children will meet a wholly undeserved end

Praise yourself for all the positive things you did for Sparkle and put all your energies into sorting out the other one.

 

[Eaglestone]

Please do not blame yourself you could not have done anymore for Sparkle.

You now have to be there for your boy ... Sparkle was there for him and gave him all the confidence in the world and now that is your task, and given time you will find a new friend for him and Sparkle will be watching you ...

<<<< HUGS >>>>

I think you were so brave and you know you did the right things and could not have done any more for her ...

 

[Rana]

Oh hon, I really feel for you.

I've followed all your posts about your horses, although I haven't always replied.

You did everything I would have done. You gave Sparkle every chance to get better, and when you realised that she was suffering, you ended it for her. It is the bravest decision you could have made.

I'm certain that your vet meant that it shouldn't have happened to such a lovely horse, or to a caring and responsible owner. After all, how many times have we all seen someone completely irresponsible, putting their horse at risk, but nothing happens to the horse, while other responsible horse owners have horses with illnesses and injuries.

It will take time for you to "get over" the loss of Sparkle. I still have a little cry for my old girl every now and again, and we lost her 2 years and 2 weeks ago. It gets easier, but you never forget them - and why would we want to? Celebrate the time you had with her, and take comfort knowing that you gave her the best possible life you could.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I too am sure that what your vet meant was not in anyway a criticism of you or your care for Sparkle. I would hazard a guess that this woman was trying to quiz him about her and this was all he was prepared to say, he certainly shouldn't have said any more about a client. I remember my vet saying something very similar to me about a friends horse who was pts with colic. He was genuinely upset the mare had had to be put to sleep, but was saying it was the only kind thing to do. In no way did I interprete what he said as criticism of my friend.
It is still such a short time since your lost Sparkle, and you are getting grief from other liveries about your care of your other horse so it is understandable you are feeling down. Things will get easier, please do not give up on horses. (((hugs)))

 

[Marchtime]

Carrie don't blame yourself. You gave Sparkle a loving, kind and wonderful home. You made the right decision by her - you couldn't let her go on suffering. When I had my young TB pts five years ago many people questioned my judgment but the vet and I agreed his suffering had gone on too long. You knew Sparkle better than anyone and I am in no doubt you did what was in her best interests. Time does heal but if you feel you have unanswered questions you should approach the vet when you feel ready as it may help clear some of the guilt. Please don't give up on horses, your other horse now needs you.

 

[Doublethyme]

*hugs*

You did the best you could with the information you had, not one of us can do any more than that at any point in time. Your mare is at rest and out of pain now, keep that in mind.

I think the woman who told you is being malicious and nasty - why couldn't she keep her mouth shut as to what she had and hadn't heard.

As for the vet, I agree with others. If he said those words I would interpret more as maybe frustration that the type of horse she was shouldn't have kept going down with laminitis and that he is upset that he couldn't get to the bottom of the problems and lost the battle to save her. You said yourself, that the bloods weren't clear and that it was strange how she kept going downhill. Laminitis is a cruel disease.

I definitely wouldn't take it as a criticism of your decision at all.

Its hard losing a horse to anything, but particularly hard when its not old age etc.

End of the day you find out who your true friends are at times like these. I remember when I lost my mare in a freak accident in a new field, the day of moving her to summer grazing for a rest from a busy livery yard. A "friend" (or so I thought) asked me the day after "I bet you regret moving her now don't you!!" - Oh no I'm glad my horse died......!!!

Unfortunately humanitity has a cruel streak embedded in it a mile wide and sadly a lot of people like to exercise it at inappropriate moments.

Close your ears, grieve your mare and then later on, remember her before the illness.

 

[LankyDoodle]

Thank you so much to all of you

This vet is the loveliest man, honestly, and if I think about it I am sure he was trying to stave her off because she said 'he just kept saying it over and over again while I interrogated him'. It was like she expected us to thank her for interrogating him. I can just imagine her asking 10000 questions and him saying 'I don't know, it just shouldn't have happened to a horse like her' and trying to change the subject. I remember the last time he saw her (our other horse vet pts as he was on holiday) hye said 'this is not terminal, this horse looks really well, she's going to get better but it's going to take time'. That was 4 weeks ago. He must be absolutely gutted by it. I also remember her saying to us last night that he said to her that he hadn't seen a lot of lami cases this year and hadn't put any down, which I know is a lie because the other vet said they put a shire down 2 weeks before they put Sparkle down!!! And just to polish her ego a bit, she also said that he said 'they are fantastic owners, you all are up there'. He wouldn't say that because he is NOT their vet and doesn't even know their horse. He doesn't know them very well (they met at this party because her nephew is a vet).

The more I think of it, the more I think 'how flippin' dare she?'. She's the one over there (married to a man who owns an ex-racer) who pretends to be 'the one who'd do anything for anyone' but she's a busybody and tries to pretend she knows lots when she doesn't. There is no way she should have been questioning our vet about our horse anyway - she was ours and it is none of her business. She does it to try and look concerned/caring but then she makes us feel awful. Also, sometimes she can be caught out saying things that aren't true and this may well be one of them.

An example of her trying to make a drama out of things is thus: last night one of the ladies at the yard was concerned about her mare. The mare has previously had severe lami, but last night came in with hard, boney lumps around the coffin bone area. Now, because I don't shout about it, this unknowledgeable woman seems to think I know nothing, but I tried to reassure the owner, telling her I think it is sidebone and not a recurrance of lami as she doesn't have heat/pulse/the stance of a lami horse, and the lumps just don't add up to lami - they are exactly like sidebone. Anyway, this other woman, who is part of the mare's owner's little clique, tried to pipe up saying 'oh well YOUR vet when they came out said you have to watch for the coronary band going so I think this might just be laminitis', trying to make me look like I know nothing. 'Yes' I said, 'but HER coronary band is fine - THAT is not her coronary band!' as I proceeded to explain where the coronary band is and what our vet meant, but I could tell she was not wanting to listen as she was just nodding and turning away and trying to talk over me like she does to everyone. She was intent on making a drama of it. I said to the owner that I would call the vet but to try not to panic (she worries about a recurrance to the point of crying sometimes). I said it was best to be on the safe side but I was convinced it was sidebone and not lami. But no, this other woman had to keep sticking her beak in trying to make the owner more panicked, drama drama. She LOVES drama. She LOVES being first on the scene. She also likes to make out that there's only one person up there who knows much, and it's the person who shouts her mouth off making others feel bad, then going on to compete unfit horses! I don't like to claim to know everything but I do know quite a bit about horses and I get quite offended when she treats me like a numpty and judges us. She just is so self-important... one of those people when you have a conversation who does all the talking, won't allow you to talk but when you do manage to get a word in she will talk over you before you have finished, coming back to what she has already said as if it is so much more important!

This is the woman (one of them) who has been whispering behind my back about the fact I have my boy on a diet - soaked hay, out 5 hours a day in a small, eaten down paddoc with a muzzle, fed a handful of formula4 feet and then ridden at least once a day. It's unfair to him they say, I am punishing him for being the one still alive. Yet their horse/s are well overfed, very obese. They seem to be holier than thou - 'we keep ours restricted so they won't get lami' (they don't and they just say this because their horse hasn't got lami YET, so they feel they can act all virtuous!). Trying to explain to her that our horse got stress-related lami due to the infection, falls on deaf ears or rather I don't want to listen, I've made up my own mind ears. It's luck rather than judgement that has meant their own horse hasn't got/had lami. He's about the fattest on the yard andis only ridden once a week for 45 minutes, if he's lucky! I try not to judge others but when they treat me like this then I find it hard not to get cross.

Gosh, this has turned into SUCH a rant, but I do feel so so upset about it. I am able to move him to my in-law's place soon, which is next to a main road and would mean 0.1 miles on the main road before we can get to a lane. We have to wait to see how much money we have left to spend on stables etc.

Anyway, I thought I would include some photos, first of my poor girl on the day she was pts and then of my clearly EMACIATED welsh cob boy. What should I do? I think I should feed him 3 buckets of course mix a day, stop soaking his hay and let him eat the lushest grass, plus stop riding him so much - being ridden twice a day, 6 days a week is obviously not good for him and is going to turn him into a skeletal horse. He's clearly suffering from my abusive actions and I would not blame anyone for reporting me for starving my poor horse.

Photobucket is taking ages to upload them so I will do this in about half an hour... watch this space!

 

[Rana]

Oh dear, she does sound like a nightmare! I think we all have one or two like that on yards, don't we? Doesn't make it any easier to deal with though.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your boy - starving or not lol.

 

[LankyDoodle]

How could we keep her going, selfishly, despite what people are thinking/saying about us? She'd had enough. She looks peaceful and at rest there, and was happy to rest her head on our chests all afternoon, apart from occasionally getting up to speak to my gelding over the wall or have a nosey outside the stable. Then she'd go straight back down. This wasn't our girl and she was asking us to help her, so I don't understand why people are judging us. There we are, though; as people here have said, we did the right thing

 

[LankyDoodle]

Wellllll, here he is, VICTORIA BECKHAM OF THE HORSE WORLD!
^O)
What can I do about his emaciated condition?

The belly!

The crest that has shrunk! The crest that people keep saying is fine - they all have them and apparently that makes it OK, cos you know, he's less likely to get lami if he's got safety in numbers. Twits!

The boy cannot stand still or square or prettily to save his life

This is the 'I'm beautiful, please stop starving me' look.

This is the sudocrem look!

This is the 'I'm so amazingly photogenic when I want to be' look.

This is my husband on Sparkle in Cornwall, last Summer

We had so much fun down there with her

I look like I am sitting on a 25hh horse taking this pic. I'm sitting on George and he is 15.1hh! She is 14.3hh, but he was stood on a mound!

They never strayed too far from each other, and now he's lost without her

 

[LankyDoodle]

The bum!

 

[angiebaby]

You cruel cruel woman, such a starved horse !!

Carrie, tell the others to p*ss off. You are managing him exactly how I mange mine. Bare paddock, Hi-Fi Lite and Baileys low-cal. We are up to riding 2 hours a day now, and the weight is starting to shift.

Do you know it really makes me mad; I have several friends in my village, we all have cobs ( around 7 and one tb x) they are all overweight, hardly ridden, fed all sorts of crap, and NOT ONE of them has had laminitis

Not that I want them to, but I keep telling them IT WILL happen one day.

 

[Rana]

Your mare looks lovely. Remember the good times with her.

Oh my god! I can't believe you're starving that poor horse! Seriously, he looks fab, but could lose a few pounds so you're absolutely doing the right thing. You're not being paranoid, he is a tad overweight, but you're acting on it and I'm sure he'll be fine. Keep doing what you're doing and tell the others where to stick it

 

[maggiehorse]

keep strong and keep going with exactly the feed and exersise routine youre doing , he looks great , a credit to you , and give the silly interfering cow a slap from me.
as for the vet , it sounds like a poor blokie crushed into corner at party with witch woman , he did well to come out of it alive methinks , your pics are lovely , try and remember the good times
tracy

 

[Flame_]

Your mare was lovely. Don't feel bad, laminitis is a bastard and you did all you could, following vets advice all the way. You called it a day when you knew it was the right thing to do. I know from experience that with hindsight you can look back and think "would it have made a difference if I'd tried ......" The important thing is you made the decision to end your mare's suffering at the right time. You did everything right, be proud of yourself.

 

[LankyDoodle]

Thank you so much

He looks better today than he did in those photos, having lost a bit, but he still has a way to go. It's just been so hard this year as the weather has not been kind to us horse owners! It was always difficult to restrict their grazing as much when we were away in Cornwall (as int he pic where they are grazing together), but we've always restricted them hugely at home, and always come in for some criticism from those who seem to think loving their horses is overfeeding them.

We have never fed hard feeds at any other time than between the months of October and March and we have always tried to ride whenever possible. However, over the last 10 months we have had a major building project and lots of hassle from our builder so riding has decreased. We still rode but not as much as we used to/should have. It was the infection that led to the lami but the goodness in the grass did not help.

I'm having a better day today. One where I look at photos of her and smile

 

[LankyDoodle]

See, I know he's fat because that green fly rug he is wearing there is tight on him this year! It was loose last year, as you can see from the picture. It used to really bug me because it used to gather up and he'd come in looking a scruff! This year it fits where it touches. He's never been like that, my George. He's always been a good doer obviously, but the mere hint of winter and he drops weight. That's why I can't wait for October!