Problem horse - what to do for the best

[Wilbur_Force]

Bit of a long story. Friend has a horse, rising 8 year old TB gelding. Owned for 6 months or so. He has a lovely temperament, loves cuddles and is a very nice looking boy. However, he was backed late and is sharp to ride and unpredictable. He has been treated for sarcoids and everything is healing nicely. Is there a market for this horse or is PTS the best course of action? She has no spare money to invest in this horse as she has 2 others and is not prepared to go down the vet route. She wants the best possible outcome for the horse, money is irrelevant. Honest thoughts and opinions please, thanks

 

[Suziq77]

Bit of a long story. Friend has a horse, rising 8 year old TB gelding. Owned for 6 months or so. He has a lovely temperament, loves cuddles and is a very nice looking boy. However, he was backed late and is sharp to ride and unpredictable. He has been treated for sarcoids and everything is healing nicely. Is there a market for this horse or is PTS the best course of action? She has no spare money to invest in this horse as she has 2 others and is not prepared to go down the vet route. She wants the best possible outcome for the horse, money is irrelevant. Honest thoughts and opinions please, thanks

How sharp and unpredictable e.g. what does he tend to "do"? In my experience most "problem" horses have a "thing" be it rearing, spinning, bolting, bucking or something else. I appreciate that you say he is unpredictable but that could mean he can change moods in an instant or that he reacts in a different way every time. Six months really isn't a very long time to get to know a horse, particularly the more highly strung ones and also bearing in mind it has been the winter so riding time may have been limited?

With the right rider and calm consistent work a great many of them settle and go on to become lovely horses. He isn't very old and you mention he was backed late - at what age, how long has he been in work for, what kinds of experiences has he had etc? It is difficult to comment much further as to what your friend's options might be without knowing a bit more.

 

[TarrSteps]

As above, it's impossible to accurately assess the situation without more information. In fact, it's pretty much impossible to give good advice without seeing the horse in question. Has you friend talked to anyone who knows the horse personally - trainer, experienced friend etc.?

Now I'm going to say something really inflammatory but I think it's worthwhile saying because it seems to be one of those things people used to say all the time but we're not allowed to say now . . .

It is not the worst thing in the world for a horse to be pts. It is not even CLOSE to the worst thing. I know this goes against what everyone who loves horses and wants to do right by them (which definitely includes me!) wants to be true but the fact is, you can NEVER guarantee what happens to a horse after it leaves your hands. If you, as the owner, genuinely believe that a horse will likely not have a happy and productive life going forward and you are not able to care for it yourself pretty much no matter what, then sometimes it's better to be realistic.

Now, that said, just because YOU (not the OP - I realise it's not your horse in question - just a figure of speech) can't ride a horse or keep it the way it needs to be kept, doesn't mean it doesn't have potential for someone else. I think one does owe it to a horse to get another experienced, preferably objective, opinion and put ego and personal interest aside as much as possible. I know quite a few horses that are not particularly saleable but give their owners great pleasure and satisfaction.

Horses are expensive - this can't be a shock to anyone who owns one! And it's not the horse's fault if it doesn't live up to expectations. But things change in life. I am very squeamish about the idea of having an otherwise comfortable (not useful - that's a different conversation!) horse put down without veterinary investigation but then I'm against passing such an animal on without investigation, too! It's tricky and, I'm afraid, at the end of the day, up to the individual.

This the problem with paying money for a living thing. Is it a pet or a possession? (Further complicated in the UK, where the law seems to see horses as closer to dogs than cows!) At the end of the day, no one can judge but the owner.




In this specific case, what are the horse's attributes? Can it jump? Does it move well? What sort of job could he do if someone could direct his abilities successfully?

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Thanks both. He is a poppet on the ground. Stands and eats in the stable with the door wide open for hours. Lovely boy. Ridden he is sharp but probably only when put under pressure (and not a lot of pressure either). Not every time he's ridden though. He'll rear if pushed and also broncs, huge bucks, airs above the ground on occasion too. Again, not every time. Hacks out really well. My friend is a good jockey and the person he came from was a good jockey too, although she didn't ride him when my friend tried him. He wasn't backed until he was 5 (I think) and then restarted again a few months later. He is nervy when horses come to close etc in the school and its that type of unpredictability that I'm talking about. The unsavoury behaviour comes from nowhere, one minute ok, the next, all over the place. She genuinely cannot spend any more money on him, she just hasn't got it. She will PTS if she cannot realistically pass him on to a home who thinks that they might be able to turn him around. If the outcome is not great then so be it. She's completely realistic about what the options are. Her dressage trainer has ridden him and whilst a little unbalanced, he has never been naughty with her. thanks for the replies

Forgot to say, he's bay and 15.3hh, never raced. He could turn is hoof to eventing or anything to be honest, he's a smart looking horse.

 

[LizzyandToddy]

He could potentially make a nice horse for someone, he just needs a competant rider, sounds the sort of thing im looking for really.

I'd say give him a chance to sell (to the right home), and well if he doesn't then perhaps PTS may be the better option, than him being passed pillar to post as is likely to happen and will just wind him up more.

 

[Suziq77]

Sounds like a familiar story, I'll hand over to TarrSteps on this one as she has far more experience than me. Will PM you.

 

[TarrSteps]

I know I'm sounding like a broken record but I'd likely try a decently timed bute test. Not definitive by any means but cheap, easy and if the horse improved at all it would be a good clue there's something physical going on. Tbh, horses with that sort of stop and start history always make me go "hmm". It can just happen, I know, but it makes me wonder how many people have wondered, if you know what I mean.

For the record, I do realise lots of tricky horses "come right" and kudos to people who persevere. But I also know lots of situations where people have persevered, successfully in the short term, and it's STILL ended badly for the horse in the long term. I don't judge anyone else's situation or decisions. There are lots of people who are quick to say, "Keep going at all costs (Or you're a bad person. ) but it seems I've appointed myself the person to say, "There's nothing wrong with being realistic and taking the situation as a whole.". For the record, I've probably had as much "real world" sustainable success with "problem" horses since I got a bit more realistic.

 

[AmyMay]

You say she won't go down the vet route, but surely it's worth chucking a couple of quid at to find out if the horse is actually experiencing pain anywhere?

 

[Wilbur_Force]

TarrSteps, good idea re the bute. Worth a go anyway.

amymay, I take your point and I perhaps might do it differently, but she already has an 800 pounds vet bill for treatment of the sarcoids

 

[kirstykate]

I am completely with Tarrsteps on this one, the bute test would be a good idea, but it could be a gut issue which bute could aggravate even more, its a very difficult one which I full understand as I have one of my own, who isnt even backed yet, with even more issues

 

[Wilbur_Force]

KirstyKate, I feel for you, this horse is so sweet and most days are good, but the other ones are very bad. My friend is trying to not let sentiment get in the way

 

[Miss L Toe]

KirstyKate, I feel for you, this horse is so sweet and most days are good, but the other ones are very bad. My friend is trying to not let sentiment get in the way

Sentiment gets in the way for most people, otherwise they would buy and sell at lower grade sales.

 

[seabsicuit2]

Really you need to see if it can jump does it enjoy cross country schooling? If he loves it than eventing/team chasing/point to pointing might be the job for him

To my mind a lot of young TB's would behave like that if they weren't in regular disciplined work

I would see if he enjoys Xc schooling , build up to doing a few chase fences working upsides, if he seems to enjoy it stick an advert on the jumping for fun forum ( point to point website) and he would find a good home with the right sort of person.

Tb/racing people really are not bothered about that kind of behaviour nor do they care about sarcoids if the horse can do a job. It's only sport horse people that think it's all awful !
With a lot of TB's they come into their own once they start jumping or racing, with this horse you need to give him a job to do , crack on& give him something to focus on. If still no good, then yes would Pts, but he hasnt been given a chance yet!

 

[TarrSteps]

I am completely with Tarrsteps on this one, the bute test would be a good idea, but it could be a gut issue which bute could aggravate even more, its a very difficult one which I full understand as I have one of my own, who isnt even backed yet, with even more issues

Absolutely! But can also be useful in context. If a horse got worse on bute my next step might be to talk the vet into a course of GastroGuard.

Neither is definitive, of course. Horses can be sore and not respond positively to a bute test, likewise for ulcers. But they are well understood tests and useful. My other "standards" are another rider (interesting he was okay for the dressage rider, although that could also mean he/she didn't ask the same questions), an alternative work regime (see post above), another saddle (not necessarily initially the services of a master saddler), and trying a bitless bridle (you'd be surprised . . .). All relatively cheap and cheerful, if not super scientific.

None of which actually relates to the initial question but I don't think I'd suggest PTS until I'd at least checked those boxes thoroughly.

 

[horsemad32]

I've taken on that sort of thing in the past, and my current youngster had issues when she came. I usually found a mixture of pain/remembered pain and bad training, and the pain was always the easiest to sort. Current youngster took many, many months, a lot of nerve and persistence, but she's now the sweetest thing ever and I love her to bits . I didn't pay much for her though, so I didn't mind it taking a while...

 

[Goldenstar]

Absolutely! But can also be useful in context. If a horse got worse on bute my next step might be to talk the vet into a course of GastroGuard.

Neither is definitive, of course. Horses can be sore and not respond positively to a bute test, likewise for ulcers. But they are well understood tests and useful. My other "standards" are another rider (interesting he was okay for the dressage rider, although that could also mean he/she didn't ask the same questions), an alternative work regime (see post above), another saddle (not necessarily initially the services of a master saddler), and trying a bitless bridle (you'd be surprised . . .). All relatively cheap and cheerful, if not super scientific.

None of which actually relates to the initial question but I don't think I'd suggest PTS until I'd at least checked those boxes thoroughly.

This is all such good advice try to explore options without spending a fortune .
OP If I missed you saying I am sorry but is he been worked seven days a week that was always something I tried if things where difficult, also working twice a day sorted out one criminal youngster I had.
But I would be thinking pain if it was mine but I completly understand the not going to throw good money after bad feeling even if you spend a fortune with the vet that does mean the problem would fixable broncers can kill people or maim you for life ( I have personal experiance of this)
In the end your friend will have to go with gut feeling no one wants to PTS if another rider could succeed but then no wants it pass on a horse that then hurts someone badly and no one wants a horse passed from one place to another
getting into a worse and worse situation.
There is great advice for your friend here and I wish her well with a difficult desision.

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Everyone, thanks very much for all the good advice, I will pass it on tonight. She had started to jump him, but he buggers off on the landing side. At a clinic on the yard last week the antics started over a pole on the ground! He has a varied workload, hacking, schooling, fields to ride in, plenty of turnout, session on the horse walker. He gets very excited and squeally. Other times he just throws his toys out. Thanks for the replies, lots to think about