Problem horses - is it actually even worth it?

it's almost impossible for anyone to really tell you what to do without knowing you or the horse, we have no idea what you have tried or how you deal with her.
I have a grumpy mare here who has a jaded past, her old owner faced similar behaviours to what you are describing, she worked through them because she's as stubborn as the mare lol, and i'm glad she did give her the chance to come right otherwise i wouldn't have the rather special mare i have now.
Yes she still pulls faces but it's very half hearted as she now knows they have no effect, she hates being rugged, and she's still grumpy at food time and she would rather you didn't try and treat her like a cuddly toy;) oh except for the day i was bawling my eyes out over something and just put my arms round her neck and buried my face in her and that grumpy old moo stood there with her head down my back and let me snot all over her for over 10 minutes;)
Theres good in all of them, just depends if you have the time and inclination to find it
 
LauraWheeler said:
Hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Search "Lucy's story the one in 8million pony" for full story.

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It's a long hard road but I think it's worth it. Maybe i'm mad ;) :p :D :D
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Fantastic response and spot on x rehabbing a horse is not for everyone, but the rewards are like nothing else when it comes right. I think op that you may have almost invited defeat, so this horse came from the same source as boris, it doesn't mean that it is unfixable, it may be, but just having the mentality that it came from there and it's therefor doomed is not going to help, and also referring to your horse as it... Well there is just no desire there, no bond and that is very important as wagtail says they really do pick up on this. I really don't know if its worth YOU personally persevering with this horse or even if its worth anyone persevering as I don't know her, but I think that in some ways you have blocked the possibility of progress because of what you know of this mares history and your resulting perception of her. I may be completely wrong, and as I'm saying she may be unfixable but its not something I could comment on.
 
scarymare said:
yawn. How many chances though, how many professionals, how much money and what's the point really. I appreciate it's not her fault, I fully accept her problems are man made but does that really matter long term?
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Yawn???!!!

Oh. Well have her shot then since you obviously can't be bothered and don't want to hear anything constructive. You obviously want rid and want everyone to tell you to give up and she's a lost cause.:mad:
 
Something I don't understand OP. You said about having her PTS but telling her previous owner that she'd had an accident ? Why not be honest and tell her you can't manage the horse any more and perhaps she could help or wish to have her back. Do you not want to admit that you've not succeeded ?

Why would you not wish to pass her on to a knowledgable willing person who knows what the issues are? It would be better than killing her surely ?
 
I think if you are in that position then PTS if you feel its no longer worth it. I'm in a position with a 2yr old who has several medical issues which will make her unable to be ridden though field sound. Although very sweet I was given her as she was due to be PTS due to being way to small to race prep. Since then she has developed several long term issues. So my choice for her is to either find her a companion home or have her PTS and in my area there are literally thousands of companions around. I can't risk letting her out of my ownership as I want to guarantee her a good life, her breeding is good enough for someone to consider breeding from her and I didn't get her to keep for life (nice home to recover from being knocked around, grow, be broken and sold as whatever she could do well). Sometimes horses just aren't worth the pain and money, there are others who will appreciate the love more!
 
Depends if you want to do it really, it's a vocation and not a choice and you have to be totally committed, if your not then you'll be wasting both your time and money.

My mare had issues, I had the time and a hunger to learn. Lots of sleepless nights and tears later, she's wonderful. I could never of afforded what She has become, but I'm also well aware that it could of gone wrong too.

She's a gamble that paid off and I couldn't love her more.
 
theres nothing worse than having a horse you hate! give her away, to someone that will try with her!

I had a horse on loan that I hated and he really felt the same! I couldnt even catch him and he wouldnt come near me! he wasnt evil but there was just no bond! best thing was to get rid to someone that didnt mind his ways!
 
IMO the thing about many problem/challenging horses (however they came to have their problem) is that few of them are talented enough to be attractive to the sort of people who could actually stand a chance of sorting it. There are always plenty of talented issue free horses waiting in the wings too.

Of course there are happy endings where a plucky person perseveres and eventually gets through to the horse which is lovely and kudos to them but I am sure for every one of those there are dozens of casualties on the road to success.

eta- this is no reflection on OP or anyone else, just my general musing
 
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OP if she was mine I wouldn't loan or sell, would PTS instead, wouldn't want it on my conscience if she injured someone or ended up in a bad home, I'd think she was high risk for that.

I would keep as a nice hack so she has something going for her. Especially since you've spent 2k on her and to PTS and buy something else would cost more again.

I'd look at how best to manage the problems. Eg. If she kicks when loose in the field then take a bucket with small amount of food to catch her, leave a leather headcollar on at all times if she's difficult to catch in field or stable. Lead in the chifney all the time if its safest, don't wait for her to play up then go get it. Does she have to be rugged? Leave off if possible. Or if she must have one then use one without legstraps, its either bring taken on or off and if its wonkey its left like that. Forget grooming apart from saddle and bridle areas if she kicks at that and tie up short so she can't bite. Don't even pick hoofs out and dope for farrier or if a wound needs cleaning. Any serious illness or injury I'd PTS because she would probably be a nightmare patient. Use a mounting block facing a fence so she can't run forward to kick you as you mount.

It depends what you want though. I don't mind managing problems and I'd be happy with a horse that's a decent hack even if it couldn't do much else. But then I wouldn't take on a problem horse and spend 2k on it, I'd rather buy a 2k horse in the first place. There's no way yours is worth what you've spent. If I took on a problem horse and the problems couldn't be fixed cheaply or managed, then I'd PTS.
 
I'm glad I stuck with Ned!
12/12/12 was the happiest day of my life, when YO gifted him to me!

Honestly, I didn't like him at first, and even when I started to love him, there were plenty of times I wanted to punch him in the face and never ever see him again. I cried a LOT. Especially when he relapsed. I never thought I'd get my good ol' Neddy back!

He's in no way, shape or form 100% yet, but we're getting there slowly (very slowly).

If I still didn't like Ned, after all this time, I don't think YO would have given him to me and I don't think I would have taken him.

Good luck, to you and her, whatever you decide!
 
skint1 said:
IMO the thing about many problem/challenging horses (however they came to have their problem) is that few of them are talented enough to be attractive to the sort of people who could actually stand a chance of sorting it. There are always plenty of talented issue free horses waiting in the wings too.

Of course there are happy endings where a plucky person perseveres and eventually gets through to the horse which is lovely and kudos to them but I am sure for every one of those there are dozens of casualties on the road to success.

eta- this is no reflection on OP or anyone else, just my general musing
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Spot on Skint.

Saying that this horse doesn't sound like a lost cause by my standards. Not that that matters, if the OP wants rid, pts is a responsible choice.
 
Sometimes, it entirely depends on the horse and the individual person.

I have persevered with some and chucked the towel in with others but it is very true when people say that a bad horse costs the same as a good one!

Horses for courses but there is no point struggling if you are not enjoying it.
 
We have an absolute barsteward of a mare that I bought for my 14 year old daughter. After putting her in hospital several times and making me almost commit "horsicide" ! she is now the most lovely horse to have about and I would not part with her for the world.

She was a very talented showjumper and berd in the purple. My Daughter persevered and can do anything with her now, they know one another inside out and have built up a great bond that brings a tear to my eye when I even think about it, a mental bond, not physical, and that does not properly happen as often as you think.

We will never part with this horse, she is happy enough doing nothing in the field, is a very talented SJ and as i previously said, bred from proven bloodlines. We may take a foal from her as a replacement in the future as any offspring would have a job and a home for life.

Baggage we love you!!
 
It all really depends on what the problem is and what your intentions are for the horse. If you are retraining to sell then no, it's not worth it. You've already spent a couple of thousand you say trying to put things right and they still aren't ... in today's market you unfortunately are not going to turn a profit with this one! If the plan was to create a nice horse for yourself then you need to make a decision as to if you are still emotionally invested in the mare (no, by the sounds of it !!!) because if you no longer care/have run out of steam then again, no, it's not worth it !!!

You can't win them all, if you have already investigated all avenues of reasons, for example pain, fear etc and you have come to the conclusion that it's a case of bad attitude then this will be a long road to put it right. It's hard to change years worth of bad habits and sourness.

I really don't know what to suggest tbh, you have to do what's right for you and what's fair for the horse. Good bloodlines/conformation would suggest broodmare but of course if this attitude is a result of nature and not nurture then that is out. At the end of the day it's your horse, your decision, don't let others make you feel guilty about what you choose.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
I'd look at how best to manage the problems. Eg. If she kicks when loose in the field then take a bucket with small amount of food to catch her, leave a leather headcollar on at all times if she's difficult to catch in field or stable. Lead in the chifney all the time if its safest, don't wait for her to play up then go get it. Does she have to be rugged? Leave off if possible. Or if she must have one then use one without legstraps, its either bring taken on or off and if its wonkey its left like that. Forget grooming apart from saddle and bridle areas if she kicks at that and tie up short so she can't bite. Don't even pick hoofs out and dope for farrier or if a wound needs cleaning. Any serious illness or injury I'd PTS because she would probably be a nightmare patient. Use a mounting block facing a fence so she can't run forward to kick you as you mount.
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I agree with this. Some horses just dont want to be messed around with and sometimes instead of battling to fix it you just have to find ways of working around it. One of mine will flatten anyone trying to inject him so either i need a very quick vet or sedation, he hates being brushed on his tummy so i do the girth area and thats it, he only gets a chaser clip to avoid clipping right under him and round his back legs. He used to drag us down a steep hill to his field on a livery yard but now he is at our place hes turned ut 24/7. He will kick and bite but when you get to know them you realise what triggers it and how to avoid the situation. I'd never pull his rug straight either as it will result in a bite.
 
PandorasJar said:
Yes but I like the mare and behaviour is great now. She can be an utter cow but never dangerous but will protect me from the other horses and has stopped throwing her weight round and trying to change.
I'd be looking pain routes if I were you, but equally as someone else has said, they pick up on feelings so much. I certainly wouldn't be riding this horse until I'd got good handling on ground.

Why would you not pass on? Mine was given to me as dangerous and no one wanted her at 8 nothing done in years as walked on two feet everywhere, had been lunged but she was in control. She's never done that with me and behaves simply like an unhandled youngster - and not a difficult one. I was the first person to ignore her history Nd start with a clean slate as if she'd never done anything. I spent months just chilling in her field, scratches etc before I knew she relaxed seeing me rather than squared up. She's now a dream to work with.
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I had a similar (but not as dangerous) experience with a tb - we bought at a sales as we felt sorry for him (underweight, cuts etc, weaved, generally in poor condition but with a hint of a nice horse in his eye - soppy I know)

He didn't have dangerous issues and was so gently but had certain 'triggers' that could really freak him and he would panic. Looking back through his passport in his previous 9 years he hadn't stayed in the same county for more than 6 months. We chucked out in a field for 6 months and let him come sane, giving some attention and lots of feed and he improved a lot. We didn't match riding wise (landed me in hospital but not his fault) so he went out on loan via project horses and did really well in his loan home. Through no fault of his or the loanee's he had to be relocated quickly and went to a home for 6 weeks where he was managed differently (lots of hard feed, no turn out etc) and came back mental again. 6 months down the line he was sane again and went back out on loan. He did brilliantly with that home and clicked perfectly with the girl who had him. He had an accident which resulted in pts but was a happy horse in the time he was with her.

He had obviously got a reputation in Ireland (where he came from) as he was shipped over to England to be put through a sales for very little money - it will have cost more to ship him than he cost me! I think by not knowing his history we took him as he was without any preconcieved ideas of how he 'should' behave which definately helped his behavour.
For me it was worth working with him but he wasn't dangerous at all, he had some physical issues which required regular care but he came good and was a lovely horse underneath it all.

One thing to consider is that mares can be very 'particular' about people - my mare is very sweet with me but can't stand some people, one in particular always brings out real grumpiness in her. It is very possible that neither you or the previous owner 'clicked' with her at all - nothing against you, just personalities don't always get on :rolleyes:
It would be worth considering loaning her out and see how that went - go with full disclosure and go through a site such as project horses. The most important thing would to be fully detail all behaviour and have something in writing that the loanee is aware of the behaviour and accepts the risk.

Beyond something like that where you still have some control and safeguards in place for you and the horse then pts is better than her ending up in a bad situation or going through the sales to an unsuspecting person who will end up badly hurt.

hope it works out for you
 
scarymare said:
Done all that - she was fine for the professional and would be fine FOR a professinal who had help on the ground to mount, etc. Professional quite fond of her...... but would not sell/loan on.
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If she is fine for the pro and you don't want her why wouldn't you let the pro have her if they want her?

Difficult horses in the right hands can usually be resolved. Mine has in three months gone from an aggressive unhappy character to one which is a pleasure to own.

It doesn't sound like you like this horse at all and I wonder why you took it on, since it was a run of the mill problem horse when your got it for free, presumably.
 
She does`nt like you,you don`t like her,she may well have a "female" problem driving her insane,you cannot be bothered to find out.Let the poor cow have a chance with someone who might be bothered to scan her,or whatever it takes ,she is trying to say..shriek actually..that things ain`t right.A mare takes insight and sympathy,that just is not going to come from you,let her have a chance if someone pro will give her one.
 
Tbh I got bored of reading the replies. Op you sound as though you've already made the decision to shoot the mare, so not entirely sure why you've posted.

I would suggest it would be best for the horse and for you that you either PTS or find someone that is interested in the horse. It sounds as though you've gone past any interest in this horse, so I doubt you'll be doing her any favours by keeping her with you.
 
Yes and no.

I have a welsh x hackney who I've had for 7 years. I got her with EXTREMELY bad napping and rearing issuers (vertical, would flip over ect). Took a long time to find out the physical cause (a lot of pros missed it), but once it was found and treated she was still awful as it was such a learned response.

Now she hacks, schools and jumps relatively nicely. Will try to get her out competing next year. I love her to peices as she has a fantastic temperment and a huge personality. Was it worth it? Yes. Would I do it again? No.
 
Not a psychologist and certainly not a horse expert but I sense an Ego issue here. OP does not want to risk passing the mare on to someone else because she does not wish to be responsible for any harm it might do someone. She says. However is it also possible that doing so would be an admission to self and others that she's failed.
I ride my friend's horse and have never had any problems with his behaviour. He however plays her up a lot and has chucked both her and another rider off a number of times. I'm a novice rider so it should really be me having this problem but I don't. Each time I ride him I know that at least two people are hoping that he will misbehave and dump me because that would mean that his behaviour is not being caused by anything they are doing. His owner has acknowledged that this is how she feels. Sadly he has now learnt some mean habits caused by poor handling and riding and got an idea of his own strength so is becoming a somewhat risky ride. People have in his case made the problem.
 
OP, you sound knowledgeable and you have other horse(s) What I can't understand is why you took the mare on - knowing she had problems?? We all know horses are expensive and hard work even when they are easy.

She was free for a reason- now she's your responsibility. Surely time to talk to the original owner and agree a course of action?? Good luck with her.
 
I think it's hard to say as every situation with a problem horse is different and it depends on the handler in question as well and their lifestyle. Sometimes it may work out brilliantly other times it might be a loss cause. Who knows. It depends.
 
EAST KENT said:
She does`nt like you,you don`t like her,she may well have a "female" problem driving her insane,you cannot be bothered to find out.Let the poor cow have a chance with someone who might be bothered to scan her,or whatever it takes ,she is trying to say..shriek actually..that things ain`t right.A mare takes insight and sympathy,that just is not going to come from you,let her have a chance if someone pro will give her one.
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well said...too many folks jumping on the PTS band wagon for my liking. Horse-lovers?
 
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