Problem horses

Wildfyre

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Hi all,

Just wanting to see if anyone has some suggestions.

I have a 3yo TB filly breaker, by a stallion who is known to throw difficult horses (found this out after we bought her). We’ve bought her to race ourselves, she was cheap as part of a dispersal so I imagine she’s spent a lot of time with minimal human interaction although she did lead and branded and feet trimmed. She is quite aggressive and has a bunch of quirks I’ve never seen in combination. We haven’t even got to saddling or driving her yet. I’d consider myself and relatively experienced horse person and rider having worked with a hundred or so different horses and having broken in a dozen or so. Very familiar with TBs

She is highly reactive and spooky - but will plant/Jib.
She has more fight than flight and is quite aggressive
She acts quite ‘stalliony’ to things she doesn’t like, will go for the bite at the knee and the stamp/maul, and is more inclined to lay all over the pressure rather than move away from
She has some sort of phobia of things near her legs, she lost her mind and did herself some scuffing over a rope dangling onto her knee (setup deliberately
after a lot of desensitising work)

we’ve spent two weeks on the ground being kind but firm, she has improved a bit, sort of, however she just feels really dirty and unwilling, it feels very unsafe and uncomfortable working with her, I do not trust her at all. I feel more like she is tolerating what we are doing not accepting it (and we’re really only up to a roller) She does not ‘soften’ to anything, she usually has a kinder softer eye after a session but I am doubting the chances of her making a useful race or riding horse. I feel she’s a bit in the basket of anyone that is capable of handling or riding her wouldn’t want to.

Today we laid her down - (now I’m not an advocate of this and have never felt the need to do this to any horse previously) had hoped this might bring about some sort of attitude change. She put up a bit of a fight and took a while to give in, but went down gently and was then gentled and was happy chewing and relaxing on the ground. I’d thought the lesson might have stuck but as soon as she was up it was back to her bad attitude.

Does anyone have any suggestions here? I’m not inclined to think there is a pain issue. She is not stabled and is in a decent size paddock. Im considering putting her in a paddock with a very dominant horse but don’t really want to risk injury to the other horse. I’m not opposed to paying for help but I’d like to see a little more progress before I start throwing money at a horse that has a few convictions. We bought two from the same situation and the other (different stallion) is progressing perfectly without issue.
 

SEL

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I might not be reading your post correctly but it sounds like you're saying you're getting nowhere after 2 weeks. Took months and months with my problem mare of consistent work on the ground for behaviours to improve.
 

fredflop

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Few things, hinting at what others have said:

turnout with a couple of friends if possible, may well help her calm down at bit.

bring her in every day to be stabled overnight. The human contact can be good for them.

don’t feed anything apart from grass and hay.

if she’s still acting up after that I would look at trying to find a trainer whose “system” you like the look of, and follow their training plan for a bit. (There are various ones, I think I’ve seen one called the TRT method on here)

if she’s still acting up, hopefully she’s a bit better behaved, get the vet in. By doing work it should at least give you an idea if it’s behavioural or pain related. At worst she should be better behaved for the vet than beforehand.
 

Esmae

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I too would have her hormones checked out. If that checks out okay then I would take the pressure off and just handle her to manage. ie, lead in and out handle feet, teach to tie up if she doesn't do that already and groom etc. Make her behave in the stable. Go back off the door when you go in etc. It could take months of consistent, firm, but kind handling. Honestly 2 weeks is nothing when you consider she's now 3 years old and had nothing done. Take your time. Good luck, she sounds as if she has a lot of attitude that you need to work for you and not fight against.
 

D66

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Ulcers can be caused by lack of feed or stress which may well have happened to her given the back story. I'd have a vet do an examination including scoping and then get the best behaviourist you can afford to get her amenable before going any further.
Good Luck
 

ycbm

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The best ones and the most talented are tricky to start, in my experience !


I've had two tricky to start ones among many. The first was going blind at three years old and the second was a congenital wobbler. My experience is that most horses behaving badly have problems.

Did you read the list of things this horse does? It isn't by the biggest stretch of the imagination 'normal'.

.
 

bonny

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I've had two tricky to start ones among many. The first was going blind at three years old and the second was a congenital wobbler. My experience is that most horses behaving badly have problems.

Did you read the list of things this horse does? It isn't by the biggest stretch of the imagination 'normal'.

.
Yes I read the post and I stand by my comment after having a lot of experience with young tbs .....not every tricky horse has a physical problem !
 

ycbm

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Yes I read the post and I stand by my comment after having a lot of experience with young tbs .....not every tricky horse has a physical problem !


For the sake of those which have, a wise horseman will always rule it out first.

Why do you have a problem with forum members suggesting that course of action?

.
 

Wildfyre

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Hi all,
Sorry for slow reply, I lost the thread.

I’m not inclined to think it’s pain as the reactions are so consistent - everything gets much the same reaction, there’s no better/worse area or type of stimulus, physically she’s immaculate, there’s no evidence of any muscle atrophy or inconsistency that could be caused by something underlying, she also doesn’t have any of the appearances of a typical ulcer horse and they’d usually be quite severe to cause the kind of things we’re seeing, there’s also no extra problem girthing her up.
She has been in turnout with other horses, this hasn’t changed things unfortunately.

Not hand reared as far as we know, but the behaviour is definitely along that line. She was in quite a large herd arrangement prior to us purchasing her.
 

Tarragon

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I think that she just needs more time before you can come to any conclusions. It does sound as though you have a normal sort timeline in which most horses you deal with will reach a certain level of acceptance and she isn't anywhere close. I would just slow everything down, perhaps be a little less prescriptive in your approach and drop the expectation and see what happens.
 

Upthecreek

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I’d turn her away for a year, ideally in an established herd where she will learn that her place is very low down in the pecking order. It doesn’t sound like you’ve owned her long and I think she probably needs to be turned away to forget the negative experiences of human interaction she has probably had before you got her. That said, very occasionally you come across a horse with a bad attitude that nothing will change, but these horses are rare.
 

jules9203

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You bought her cheaply, she's had minimal human contact and she's been branded. 2 weeks is not going to sort any of the issues she's going to have with people. Having said that you also need to evaluate how much money/time you are prepared to spend trying to sort her issues out. I'd suggest turning her away for a while but when you bring her back into work getting a behaviour expert to help (possibly TRT / Monty Roberts etc)
 
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