problem leading young horse to and from turnout

[reilly1993]

Hello ,
A bit of background...
I brought my first horse 3 months ago. I've shared and had horses on full loan before but never bought and owned. I've ridden lots of horses with dangerous issues when being ridden and habits that theyve obviously been able to get away with. I thought a fresh slate and a project from scratch would be a good idea as then I know nothings being missed and can nip any bad habits in the butt !!
I fell in love with a 3yr old standardbred who had been backed for basics with his owner , I rode him in the school and took him out around the lanes and spent some time handling him, leading, picking up his feet, grooming etc etc and he was perfect. Genuine reason for sale and was a very much loved horse. He is very babyish looking and hasnt got much muscle on him so thought I'd go back to the beginning and restart him under saddle when hes in better condition and filled out a bit more. I've not had much experience myself with young young horses but am on a very knowledgeable breeding yard with plenty of help around and have an amazing trainer too who has been coming and doing twice weekly groundwork sessions with us ..
I was looking for advice on an issue which has arisen the past 6 weeks or so .. Leading to and from his paddock has become a bit of a nightmare .. He was absolutely fine to lead at first , no issues...but now has started biting, will bunny hop and rear up sometimes getting a bit carried away with his front feet.. Is bargy and pins his ears flat back and clearly trying to get into my space. Bringing him in he will pin his ears and shake his head while I'm putting his head collar on and has even started coming over to me in the field with his ears flat back. i'm putting it down to him being babyish and inpatient and testing his limits with me to see what he can get away with. Hes worse when he can see other horses coming in/ going out before him and so think hes just being a bit of a brat.
What I have been doing :

leading him a dually and anytime he tries to get ahead of me, or gets in my face with his ears back we stop stand and I back him up 3 or 4 strides. If he bites I push his head firmly away from me with a stern "NO" If he does it more than a couple of times I will tap him over his nose with the leadrope too.
We have a couple of gates on our walk to the field which I make him stand and wait whilst I open and close them again.
If he rears up he gets a sharp pull and shake on the dually and always gets lots of praise and scratches when he starts walking nicely again.
In the school to lead and do groundwork with hes great ! Backs up and yields from touch etc etc Can get frustrated and gets a bit boxy with his feet if he doesnt get what you're asking him, but non of the ear pinning business towards me that he does whilst leading to and from his field.

Is there anything I'm doing wrong or am missing out here !? I feel I cant let anyone else bring him in or out with him behaving like this incase anyone gets hurt (Everyone helps eachother out at our yard ) . As well as it becoming a worry for me .
Any advice from people who have delt with similar behaviour please .

 

[Meowy Catkin]

This is quite a quiet area of the forum and more people will see your post if you make a new one in The Tack Room.

However I have had youngsters before and I have one who tried rearing and napping when being turned out (she always came in sweetly) and another who was nippy and head shy.

For the nipping I would suggest that you don't ever bop him on the nose or head as it can lead to head shyness and that is a real bind.

With the rearing, I prefer to send them forwards (think mini lunge circle) when they hesitate, before the rear has actually happened. Correcting the behaviour while they are *thinking* about doing it is much more effective than anything done once it is over.

I do wonder if he is sour, it doesn't sound like he is pleased to see you. I don't like to do much groundwork, I just expect sensible behaviour during their daily checks and handling when they are young.

If he was mine I'd expect him to be handled in a normal padded, leather, headcollar with a long leadrope. I'd wear gloves and carry a dressage whip to send him forwards if needed. For the most part though he'd be left in the field to chill and grow (no groundwork sessions). I'd probably start doing more in the spring with the expectation of hacking out during the summer.

 

[reilly1993]

Thankyou so much for the reply

I will definitely try with sending him on in a circle as soon as a I notice the signs that he is thinking about rearing.
He definitely does seem sour , he acts this way towards everyone who handles him , almost seems he is acting a bit defensively perhaps.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Could he live out for a bit 24/7 with twice daily checks by one person? The issue you will have with lots of people handling him is that he will have no consistency.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

As MC, Don't bop him on the nose, pinch him on the shoulder and *mean* it if he even so much as threatens to bite. That is what another horse would do.
I also think you are probably doing too much with him but when you do handle him your timing has to be spot on and I wonder if it isn't currently. Definitely distraction works better than correction imo. I prefer to use an old-fashioned rope halter rather than a Dually but if he was well-mannered when he cam to you, you definitely need to look at your handling to find the problem and the answer to it.

 

[reilly1993]

Hi Meowy Catkin

Unfortunately the yard I'm on dont allow the horses to live out . He is turned out at 7am and brought in at 4ish by which time he has been stood at the gate for at least an hour waiting to come in. If he isnt stood at gate he comes trotting over as soon as he hears me coming.
I do the majority of his handling , probably once or twice a week someone will grab him in if their horse and him are the last out.
It's always at the same places on the way in/out he acts up and it's a fair walk up to his field. On the way back the closer we get to his stable the better he is .

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I had a problem leading my tb in. In summer fine , nightmare when weather turned. He doesn't bite but would leap forward and just be a general pain. I had a chap come out to help. He uses a schooling whip. In short my whip is neutral in my chest. Once horse puts one foot in front on me I am to waft whip gently in front of his nose. If it hits his nose that's his fault. We have been practicing this now for a month and I can honestly say it's working. Previously tried tried usually, bridle, chiffney. I now lead in on a loose rope and my horse respects the whip.

 

[paddy555]

is he ever nice to you? can you groom him and scratch him and he shows his appreciation or can you just cuddle him for a moment? If he is in the stable is he pleased when you go in or is it ears back and don't bother me?
He came as the perfect genuine horse and this has happened for the last 6 weeks. If he is just permanently miserable to you I would be wondering about the grass giving his mild guts ache (or at least some digestive ache/pain/gas)
The grass has been difficult for some this Autumn. Our vets report a large number of colics compared to normal. The grass has affected some of mine badly. One is on very restricted gas and charcoal and another just on charcoal. Another has equishure for something else but surprisingly has no problems with grass although he used to. Just a thought for you to consider.
As someone said he appears sour.

It is very difficult to differentiate between a youngster trying it on and in a newish home and one in pain.
You could try asking your trainer to do a few groundwork exercises with you out of the way and video it. See how he reacts. If you get on with the old owner ask if they will handle him and see what they think.

I am a bit torn between a bratty youngster trying it on with a more novice (with youngsters) handler and a horse simply being miserable because he is pain and no one is listening.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I had a problem leading my tb in. In summer fine , nightmare when weather turned. He doesn't bite but would leap forward and just be a general pain. I had a chap come out to help. He uses a schooling whip. In short my whip is neutral in my chest. Once horse puts one foot in front on me I am to waft whip gently in front of his nose. If it hits his nose that's his fault. We have been practicing this now for a month and I can honestly say it's working. Previously tried tried usually, bridle, chiffney. I now lead in on a loose rope and my horse respects the whip.

I find with horses that jump forward, a schooling whip held in front of the horse's chest/nose serves the same purpose.

 

[HazuraJane]

Young horses are an entirely different kettle of fish, aren't they? Good advice here. Especially about carrying a schooling whip whenever you walk your youngster.

 

[Inda]

I would second a different head collar. I got one for my girl when she was a yearling. She was a nightmare with it, she went up and over.

I swapped to a leather headcollar and she led like a lamb