Problem pony

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Nebbz

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Hi, first post under username but not new here.

I am looking for advise on my pony, hes, well he has earned the new shiny name Satan of late with flying colours!

I am experienced with youngsters, raised and broke my cob from a 6 month old mess to a strapping 5 year boy, and have a two year old who is calm, nervous but safe & willing. But having owned this pony since he was 6 months old also (now 4), i can guarantee he has not had any nastiness in any way if anything hes been moddy coddled (my fault and I'm happy to admit this) As a result he is a spoilt little brat of a pony and as cute as he is, has quite a fire in his belly, and this has been present since he was 6 months old.

i have started work with him introducing tack - first a harness as this is meant to be his job, second with a saddle. No bit has been introduced since he was a 2 year old colt. (now gelded)

Anything new is received with stiff and uncomfortable, to rear and bronk, he proper yeee has.

Now yesterday i had put a saddle on him (stupidly and i should have known better with him, in an enclosed space - his stable) and slowly, one hole at a time when he relaxed at each hole put pressure on with the girth. same result (cowboy pony and fear kicks in) and he is meant to be a driving pony, of which introduction to the harness caused a blow up of buck (kicked yard owner) and pushed me over in to the wall) eventually got it on him, and then on the lunge, rear, bucks, farts and general crazy then accepted with licking and chewing, and walked nicely.

The boy doesnt go anywhere and he is staying (although yesterday he was told he will be glue if this continues) but i would like to gain some control over his efforts to be a wild stallion of the west! (he is a welsh section c @ 12h)

what can i do? i have tried softly softly, i have tried not pussy footing and just getting on with it, and he has been introduced to tack over his years on and off (admitting i loose my nerve with him as hes not half hearted when he goes for it)

more experienced advise would be lovely as the plan is to start re-introducing the harness again in bits to HOPEFULLY get him sane enough to start a nice long winter with long lining ready to introduce a cart summer next year (thought a saddle would be less to think about being it has no breeches or dangly bits or bits around his bum...oh hell i was wrong!)

help!
 
Watching this with interest as I have had same problem with something I have owned since a foal. Perhaps its because we have molly coddled them too much? Mine is a riding horse not a driving pony (we have a driving pony so I totally get why you didnt want to try with the breaching and flapping straps!). The bucking like a bronko- totally the same! And i have had tack on it before too!
 
its so disheartening, all the girls at the yard are scared of him lol! he is totally bonkers! hes always been like it, at a year he took out a vet and dragged him in an arena (at that point i knew my hands were full and i had a problem)
i have tried traditional ways, i have tried natural horsemanship, i've tried mixing it, he is just not having any of it, most of it is panic, then its just sheer defiance, as i did shout at him last night and kept saying go on rear, and he just stood like a rock as i have only shouted at him a small handful of times in his whole life?

you cant tie him either as he goes baserk (almost needs to hit his head to knock that screw back in i think) thankfully he is small but he is built like a house! i dont know what i would do if it was a rider! possibly give up! but being he is little, i keep trying.

going to take a long time i know this, gave him this year turned away, very little contact, and now increasing contact again and hes no different so that didnt work!
 
as mad as it sounds, im contemplating trying clicker training :S no idea how this and horses works but i hear it works well for dogs!
 
Check out Calm, Healthy horses website! My mare can't tolerate clover and turns into a demon pony! She has to have salt and a forage balancer to help her. The potassium in clover leaches out the sodium, calcium and magnesium. It's worth considering!
 
mayangold said:
Nebbz is yours out with a gang of horses? If so do they put him in his place or does he run riot over them?
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he runs with my 15hh cob, and a section d, the cob tells him off, but the d runs away. However, this is only a short term arrangement, he and the d are off to winter pasture to be turned away and then i can only work him on a weekend, or random day im off over the winter due to work.

however, he often decides the field the yard owners big horse is better, and he does put him in his place, but this doesnt change his attitude. He did stand like a stone when i raised my voice, not sure if it was shock or overload lol!
 
Nebbz said:
On it! it does make sense, diet is always a potential factor.
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And yet clover has never affected my other mare. Tricky mare seems to be very sensitive to feed and can't tolerate anything with molasses in either. She has also suffered from ulcers although being a good doer is not a typical candidate. A recent course of chios mastic powder has helped to transform her into a relatively calm and chilled pony who will come in by herself and now loads and travels perfectly by herself. Previously, she was bolshy, suffered badly from separation anxiety and would violently spook at anything!
 
no, no one small enough to sit on, i thought it would be easier to introduce him to pressure around that area with a saddle instead of a full harness as unable to find a roller to fit him at a reasonable price, so an old girth and small saddle was the only substitute.

the bronking is just too much to have a harness flapping about his sides too, think that would probably drive him dangerously batty at the moment.
 
Just writing down thoughts, General MO of his issues, and just come to mind. This ponys coat isnt as glossy and dark as it used to be as a colt. ok yeah they lighten, but his coat is wiry?

could this be potentially gut related? internals. He does have bad teeth due to taking a hit to the head when the adult teeth started coming through. So i have been reluctant to bit based on this. But just thinking its all linked more than likley. A friend has said ulcers?
 
Nebbz said:
Just writing down thoughts, General MO of his issues, and just come to mind. This ponys coat isnt as glossy and dark as it used to be as a colt. ok yeah they lighten, but his coat is wiry?

could this be potentially gut related? internals. He does have bad teeth due to taking a hit to the head when the adult teeth started coming through. So i have been reluctant to bit based on this. But just thinking its all linked more than likley. A friend has said ulcers?
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Mine had ulcers! You can get the vet to do the succeed faecal test which is around £25. Mine tested positive for gastric and hind gut. 90 days of succeed helped but later in the year, I did a five week course of chios mystic powder which cost £25 from intelligent horsecare which has definitely improved her behaviour and she is 97 % perfect now but she is a ginger. She looks amazing now too and has beautiful dapples which she didn't have earlier in year.
 
I would take it a step back as you have missed a step out in the saddling process. Before you even attempt to put a saddle on their back they need to be comfortable with having something under their belly and also be OK with having their legs lifted and pulled forwards (I always teach the leg pull first as the last thing you want it the girth pinching the skin the first time the saddle is put on). I use a lunge line - first draped over their back, then passed under their belly, finally 'tied'. Each time the pony shows that they are uncomfortable take off the pressure - its a gradual process. Once they are comfortable with the lunge line being tied loosely round their middle I introduce a thick saddle pad and do the same. Then add a saddle, doing the girth up slowly, then eventually tight enough to stop it slipping. All of this done at a standstill. Only when the pony is comfortable with this would I encourage any forward movement - in my experience this is when they panic as they feel the restriction from the girth. Once they are walking in small circles comfortably, then I would allow more movement, including either lunge or loose schooling with the saddle on.

To do up the girth (which is a really frightening thing) then introduce the lunge immediately afterwards is asking for the response the pony gave - especially with one that you admit to mollycoddling.

You needs to slow it down and make it a pleasant experience - you reap what you sow.

ETA - in my experience the tack and saddling never causes problems but always the restriction of the girth. And if introduced to it sympathetically even that won't be a problem.
 
EQUIDAE said:
I would take it a step back as you have missed a step out in the saddling process. Before you even attempt to put a saddle on their back they need to be comfortable with having something under their belly and also be OK with having their legs lifted and pulled forwards (I always teach the leg pull first as the last thing you want it the girth pinching the skin the first time the saddle is put on). I use a lunge line - first draped over their back, then passed under their belly, finally 'tied'. Each time the pony shows that they are uncomfortable take off the pressure - its a gradual process. Once they are comfortable with the lunge line being tied loosely round their middle I introduce a thick saddle pad and do the same. Then add a saddle, doing the girth up slowly, then eventually tight enough to stop it slipping. All of this done at a standstill. Only when the pony is comfortable with this would I encourage any forward movement - in my experience this is when they panic as they feel the restriction from the girth. Once they are walking in small circles comfortably, then I would allow more movement, including either lunge or loose schooling with the saddle on.

To do up the girth (which is a really frightening thing) then introduce the lunge immediately afterwards is asking for the response the pony gave - especially with one that you admit to mollycoddling.

You needs to slow it down and make it a pleasant experience - you reap what you sow.

ETA - in my experience the tack and saddling never causes problems but always the restriction of the girth. And if introduced to it sympathetically even that won't be a problem.
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ill try this, the natural horsmanship "flicking the rope around legs, belly, head and neck" he isnt so bad with and lets you do it, same with legs being pulled about, but most of it all he didnt get on well with so figured hes a traditional kind of training pony. I've printed off what you have said (hope you dont mind) and im going to go forwards with this (keeping in mind potential ulcers as looking around different places could have some play in his issues)

but im happy to admit, i am at fault, i have lost my nerve and turned him away as he isnt happy with it, the harness was just one hole, and blow up. so now i refuse help from people as that day my friend and yard owner was kicked, and i cant risk it! (hence turning to more experienced people)

thank you for your advise! ill try keep this thread updated with results!
 
FrankieCob said:
Is he ok with rugs and surcingles?
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absolutely fine, infact when i try on his new rugs (only recently also) he stood like a rock, licking and chewing and fell asleep.

he often looks down at his chest when your doing that up. ill faf about with it tonight to see if he is different. He was rugged after this episode of madness (after the advise, more so because of me!) and he was fine with it, bit jumpy on the bum but nothing of worry, no crazy pony episodes.
 
Just bear in mind that the tightness of the girth on their ribs when they move for the first time is really scary for them and will take time to get used to. I have only had one explode in this manner and I admit I took shortcuts as she was so 'easy'. Now I gradually introduce everything first and haven't had a problem since. I'm not a professional but I have backed 8 horses/ponies now.

You'll get there
 
Also with cortez, you admit you are losing your nerve, to have spoilt him to some extent, in reality you are not experienced enough to deal with this pony, send him to someone really experienced to get him started before he becomes a lost cause, or hurts himself or you.
 
Have his back etc checked before he goes as well. You said hes fine with rugs and surcingles but it doesnt really sound like he is, and you really do need to rule out physical problem before anyone works with him :)
 
I also agree with Cortez and would send the pony to a professional

You may well have the skills to deal with this but sending to a professional who will have no preconceived ideas of the pony, starting with him as a blank canvas and with you not witnessing every stage I personally think is the way to go.
 
I'm with the sending away brigade, he sounds confused as to what is expected, my young (badly started) cob had a huge fright while settling in with us, took off bucking, we took him back to basics, using weighted jogging bottoms as a rider till he relaxed, then put an experienced rider up, cob still worried on being mounted, resorted to bribery to keep him still, now back to being confident, bribery has stopped, sometimes little steps cover the greatest distance
 
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