Problem purchases - on the increase?

NiceChristmasBaubles

NiceChristmasBaubles

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Just a musing really. Day after day there seem to be people posting on here about buying horses, taking them home and then days/weeks/months afterwards having major issues with them. I don't just mean the odd nap/buck/spook. But the kind of issues where people are wanting to return horses/take legal action etc.

Why is this? Surely in the times of internet etc it should be easier to check sellers/horses out?

Is it because more people are buying horses without having the necessary experience to nip bad behaviour/settling issues in the bud?

Is it because there are more dodgy dealers/sellers around than before?

Is it because people want the perfect horse handed to them on a plate these days?

Is it because in the tough financial times we are facing there are more problem horses in the market, where previously they may have been kept as pets.

I don't really know the answer, but it does seem a worrying trend. This isn't meant to criticise anyone who has posted asking for help on their purchases, just me trying to understand why it seems to be going wrong so often.

Or perhaps it isn't going wrong that often and there are numerous happy purchases going on without people posting about them.

Your thoughts? :)
 
I've been pondering about this too.

Of the many 'mis-sold' horses that I have known only one was a genuinely mis-sold horse. The rest were fine with time, a new saddle, better handling or once the owner had experienced help.

One, which was sent back, was actually a total star. He was kept in 24/7 by the new owner for a week. Then she dragged him out, rode him in a borrowed saddle and he was forward going but didn't do anything naughty at all. However she was frightened by him, decided that he wasn't the novice ride he was advertised as and sent him back (I think that she had two weeks to decide whether or not to keep him). How many horses would be that good in that situation? Idiot lady.
 
There certainly are more people buying horses, when we got our 1st horse, 40 yrs ago, it was unusual for any-one other farming/hunting families to have a horse and the only livery yards locally were RS.

I think it is in part, at least, because there are some 'dodgy dealers' who know that people with a couple of yrs RS experience decide that having their own horse would be lovely/cheaper than weekly lessons/ one better than the Joneses. These dealers can spot someone without a horsey background a mile off and play on any weakness they find. They are completely unscrupulous.

Another reason is that some people (especially parents, for some reason) massively over-estimate the rider's ability and buy for looks over safety. They also don't realise that it can take some horses a very long time to settle into a new home and don't understand how to help the process along.

I know from watching the local horsey community that many people don't insist on good manners from their horse, or know how to insist on them. I am constantly amazed at some of the things horses and their owners get up to. Eventually of course the horse stops just taking the p*ss and becomes downright dangerous.

I imagine that more horses are being sold on in the current financial climate, that may well have been kept as pets, or status symbols.

So I do think that some horses are being mis-sold particularly by a few well-known dealers while others are being 'mis-bought'.
 
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I don't even know that many horsey people but I can think of four straight off who got horses which were/are not suitable for them.
One is working through the problem but the horse has been getting a lot of the blame.
Another never actually managed to ride the horse she'd so desperately wanted because she was too nervous and he was unsuitable for her(friend advised her to buy!
The third ended up selling on without disclosing that the horse rears. Shes gone on to buy another horse she cant ride properly and which she will also probably ruin.
The fourth really can't ride the horse and resorts to tightly strapped flash nosebands and lots of kicking and pulling.

It's so easy to blame the horse, they can't defend themselves and when they do try to protest then we strap their mouths closed or use yet another gadget on them to ensure their compliance.
 
I have known a few mis-sold horses due to the rider getting over-excited and buying the horse on an impulse.

I think another problem is that people are so desperate to sell their horses they're advertising them as novice rides etc (Maybe if the horse has problems and this is a first horse for the buyer whom is inexperienced?) and probably dosing them up on calmer/sedatives.

Basically dodgy sellers.
A friend of mine was sold a "happy hacker". When she went to take it out on the road it bolted, spun, reared and spooked at cars.
I think it's quite heartbreaking when you see a thread about someone bonding with their new horse and it all goes to pot.
 
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I think that for all it's pluses H&HO it's a bit of a paradise for sorry tales, ie people are happy to share their woes ...... 'everything is going well' posts are not nearly so interesting??

But I am shocked at how many people expect their perfect horse to be brilliant from day one with no hiccups .....my beautiful girl took 10 years for us to really gett a strong bond, but the journey I have been through with her had been wonderful/terrible/exhilarating/disappointing/scary/life enhancing depending on which day you catch me, but that's part of the heaven of horse ownership?
 
Yes - not putting enough research in, and thinking because they can ride a riding school plod, they'll be off to the olympics soon.

Don't even get me started on vetting! Always use an independant vet...
 
I got on my new pony today and he was very forward going in the school and had a few nappy moments, should I send him back?

Only kidding :O) He was fab after schooling when we went on a hack in the village, so ill keep him for now :p
 
i think the problem is horses at the bottom end of the market are just so cheap now and theres just so many of them ,people buy them on a whim after 2 riding lessons assuming all horses are like riding school horses . they just dont know what they are doing . ive met lots of people who really think they can ride after 2 hours treking and i pity the poor horses that end up with them.
 
Definitely expecting too much, too easily and often for too little money and not understanding how much a change can unsettle a horse.

There's also a bit of a lack of determination with some people and a tendency to blame the horse. When Bree dumped me on my bum and legged it a couple of weeks after I got her my thoughts were not "nasty dangerous horse tried to kill me" but "bloody stupid woman getting herself into that situation with a big, young horse - now how do I stop it happening again and teach her not to be afraid of the M40?".

Paula
 
Pearlsasinger has summed up my thoughts exactly. Only thing I would add is that the increase of disposable income means owning a horse now is an option for numpties who couldn't 20 yrs ago.
And the rise in health & safety. A lot of kids now seem to stay on very quiet ploddy ponies longer than they did when I was a child/teen (i'm 31). So mummy & daddy think cos their child has spent years booting & pulling some poor pony about they are competent, & subsequently over horse them.
 
Possibly not maybe just more publicised with the invention of internet and forums.

Though I would say it is easier now for dodgy dealers to set themselves up and fool people because again of the internet people can see adverts for horses much further away and are tempted by flashy marketing and cheap prices. When I was a kid over 30 years ago ponies were advertised in the local paper, or through pony club, word of mouth, vets and farriers, instructors etc. There was more of a local community making it harder to pass on a horse with known problems without the potential buyer having knowledge of them. Young horses were considered only suitable for professionals or very experienced amateurs whereas now young horses are being marketed in a totally different way.

I also think a lot of people have a lack of time as well due to longer commutes and lack of jobs locally and rising cost of housing, people are often working longer hours and just more stressed which does not help.
 
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Gloria victous is spot on.
I have brought my best horses as " proble horses" cheap as chips and no problems at all. The owners can't cope.
There are to many owners around that haven't a clue and I will prob get a few coments on this but the riders around where I am have no guts any more. Honestly there seems to be more and more wimpy riders around who can't sit and if the horse puts a foot out off line they crap themselves.
My thoughts anyway
 
i have been wondering about this since a comment made by a viewer to a friend selling a nice genuine but not novice/numpty ride. Owner rode it first and then readied for viewer to ride her, told her he is nice to the leg so doesnt need much to get him going. Cue viewer slumping in to saddle and pony club kick to get him going!

Viewer said 'not for me i am used to kicking them on and am not prepared to change'. I thought this was good to be honest about it, but odd - wouldn't a well schooled horse that will teach us to ride better be a good thing?
 
There were most definitely dodgy dealers and people over horsing themselves 30 years ago. I remember going to look at a horse with someone at a dealers that had lumps and bumps all over its legs and the dealer saying "it's 'is heart you want to worry about luv". :eek:

So maybe we do just hear about it more now.

I wasn't so aware of this thing where they break a horse, give it a bit of schooling and then sell it as a perfect, ready made horse then though. But I could just have been moving in different circles.

Paula
 
I am amazed at how many people buy without doing any research on the potential purchase, go to a dealers yard with no support from experienced adviser, buy without vetting, with the internet it is so easy to do a fair amount of checks before going to try.

I think that the purchase prices at the bottom end of the market and the availability of very cheap DIY livery means that in many cases buying is seen as the easier and cheaper option than going for regular riding lessons, parents go along with the idea as it means child can be kept happy, until it all goes wrong.

I sell a few horses and ponies, they are normally mid priced allround schoolmaster types and the people I deal with in general are more experienced than whenever I have a "cheapy" in to sell when I have to cross-examine every potential buyer before I let them come, especially if it is a younger one, as I will not sell unless the home is knowledgeable and have frequently turned people away if it does not feel right, sadly not all sellers are responsible and just want to get rid:(

Most people will take more care when buying a car than they seem to buying a horse.
 
I have a nice genuine 5 year old for sale all 17.3 HW, I have actually told one prospective buyer i would not sell to her because she couldnt ride, tack up ? Oh no someone else does that !! someone else, oh he would be perfect if only he didnt have that splint, ive been looking for 2 years and havent found anything, someone else, is he a weight carrier ? we are talking HW 17.3 ID, someone else viewed, i think he has a back problem but couldnt actually identify a splint, didnt Know what a sarcoid was or pedalostitis but was qualified to tell me my horse had a back problem ! i have had these people view my horse all in the space of 2 weeks or so, many people do not have the knowledge or experience to be buying horses hence the number of problem purchase posts and one reason i will nor sell my properly produced genuine youngster to any one i do not consider worthy, end of.
 
I am not sure if they are on the increase but it feels like they are and there's this knew term mis sold now while I accept fully there are unscrupulous dealers out there ans dodgy private sellers too but people seem to leave their common sense at home when they buy a horse and then blame the horse when it's goes wrong .
And don't get me started on inexperianced people buying without vetting .
 
Paulag said:
Mind you last time someone asked about vetting here the number of people who said don't bother far outweighed those that said it was essential. I was horrified.

Paula
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So was I:eek:, it is fine to buy without vetting if you are experienced enough to really assess the horse you are buying, then weigh up the risks, I never vet but always advise my clients to after I have decided it is worth it, they rarely fail as I have already spun any with obvious problems.
 
Gloria Victous said:
Not problem purchases really, just stupid buyers.
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I totally agree, there are so many people out there who think they can ride better than they can or think they can buy success, I know of one person who bought an eventers from a top rider for £40.000 and it stops at intro with her. That's not the horse.
We have had so many people with grand ideas about their abilities no matter how honest you are. I would say if a problem occurs months after purchase then that has to be down to the buyer.
 
So1 has got it. With the internet its easier to buy further afield and its easier to publicise problems. When I was 'young' if you bought a horse/pony you just worked through the problem. When I was a child my riding school selected my first pony and a very knowledgable adult friend the second. I was not taken to view ponies - I didn't have the skill or experience to decide and was only expected to try and like the selected pony. Both were raging successes - although the first did buck me off a few times - but I was 10 years old and just off riding school ponies and didn't care.
I would be interested to know how many ads were in H&H every week 40 years ago?
 
be positive said:
So was I:eek:, it is fine to buy without vetting if you are experienced enough to really assess the horse you are buying, then weigh up the risks, I never vet but always advise my clients to after I have decided it is worth it, they rarely fail as I have already spun any with obvious problems.
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You can not assess a horse heart any way other than at a vetting .
 
I'm amazed by some of the things I see/read:
Not vetting
Going to buy without help from an experienced second pair of eyes
Buying with little experience and no intention of getting help from a good trainer
Immediately blaming the horse or the seller for any problems - instead of trying to work through or round a problem with the help of a trainer
Tiny budgets which mean the ultimate purchase is often something that is very cheap for a reason
 
Gloria Victous said:
Not problem purchases really, just stupid buyers.
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Pretty much. Plenty of novice buyers buying themselves far too much horse, usually young, and having issue. Nothing really wrong with the horse, it just needs competant handling and schooling. They then ruin the horse and THEN it's become a problem horse. If it's lucky it'll end up with an experienced owner who will quickly short it out. If it's unlucky it'll end up at a dealers and become worse.

There's this attitude that 'you have to start somewhere', except that most people aren't willing to pay the large amount of money it costs to get that 'start' at a riding school or similar, under instruction. There are VERY few horses suitable for novice owners (plenty are more than suitable for novice riders when owned/ridden/handled regularly by a competant person, but not many that won't start taking the P from a novice). Most of the combo's would be fine with competant handling and outside help, but again that costs money........
 
Goldenstar said:
You can not assess a horse heart any way other than at a vetting .
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I only said I could pick up any obvious problems and weigh up the risks, not that I could assess its heart, or its eyesight either, general lumps bumps and soundness can be assessed, sarcoids which seems to get missed by many people who then waste money on vetting, there are numerous things that an experienced person can pick up on and thus reduce the risk of failures and save money on wasted vettings.
 
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