Problem with aggressive dog

I appreciate you see dog socialising differently to the majority of us on here. You say you are a dog walker, is this as a business? If so what would your approach be if someone whose dog you exercised specifically asked you to keep it on lead round other dogs, would you disregard their wishes because you feel you know better than them?
You may have considerable experience of dogs, but so do many of the other posters on here, I think you should be prepared to see things from others point of view, the most knowledgable people, be it in dogs or horses, are the ones who are always open to learn from others.
 
I must say I have dealt with be it through work, walking, or rescue in excess of 10 dogs killed in dog fights(out side of the home), including 2 westis, 1 springer spaniel, 1 medium young x breed, 1 medium older x breed, a terrier (survived but leg ripped clean off, and throat ripped in a horrendous manor)
Terriers are indeed one the main instigators of fights and we get our fair share of the boltchy little feckers in our rescue
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they will take on and proceed to think they can fight anything from the rottis to the lurchers.
I must say I have 9 dogs and they are a pack of their own and have no need to mix with others, I can take them anywhere off lead and they will not approach another dog, nor are they unsocialised, the only dog kep on is my akita, and had that terrier have run up to her she would ignore, however if it proceeded to snap at her she would kill it in an instant with no warning, this is a good reason she is kept on, atleast I can try and get the dog out of her gob
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on the lead, a metre away and the dog, including ones up to her own weight are really asking for trouble.
I also have a pit/staff x whippet, built like a machine who has carried a few small dogs off with her before I owned her and proceeded to try and kill them once she was a safe distance away from people, luckily they got away, she has not dared since coming to stay with me (but I have put an immense amount of work into her) , and I watch her like a hawk
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If I meet up with anyone with dogs my lot will happily meet and greet, otherwise they are not allowed to bound over to other dogs, I would hate them to scare a young puppy and make it bolt, I have no fear of them getting hurt they are big and ugly enough to fend any dog off, esp as they would protect one another, and include a huge rott and akita
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o basically be responsible meet and greet when out and about dont allow our dog to run riot, it's really not worth the risk.
 
Hey, a little birdie told me they like debating on AAD.
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I fully appreciate others points of view but life would be very boring if we all agreed. Not that I am being deliberately contentious - though the old boy just got in the neck for being half an hour late in from work.

No, not a pro dog walker, owned many and walked many, thats all, nothing special.
 
It depends on the location as to whether or not I tolerate/dislike other dogs running up to mine. At the dog parks in NYC, or on the hiking trails/beaches outside the city, I am fine with other dogs approaching mine, as all of these places are geared up to responsible dog owners whose dogs like other dogs. Simple.

One thing I cannot stand is people who walk on the streets of NYC with off-leash dogs. Some are fantastically obedient (two Berneses in my neighbourhood never walk with leashes, and they are basically two lumbering sweethearts) some are old and a bit doddery, and some should not be off leash, never mind on a crowded city street. Last year a Border terrier ran at us on a busy Manhattan street, went to bite Stella and thankfully missed and latched on to and started ragging my jeans. Cue me yelling at the idiot owner, while Stella is going nuts in my arms.
 
Just wanted to say that the other dog wasn't on the lead either.
Not that it makes anything any better, just wanted you all to have the whole picture!
Thanks for all your advice and opinions really appreciate it.
 
I'm sorry that you've found yourself in this situation, it must be a shock for you if Diesel has never indicated that he would do something similar before and then this happened, but remember that it was probably just as big shock for the owner of the other dog.



Personally in your shoes I would view it as that Diesel has been happy without socialising with strange dogs this far and he can continue to be happy without needing to socialise with strange dogs, so I would have him walk next to me when meeting dogs in the future.
If you can prevent him from going/running up to other dogs from now on, I don't think you need to muzzle him but if you don't feel you can prevent that, I think I would rather keep him on the leash rather than muzzle him.
 
I don't want my dog running randomly up to other dogs and as his recall isn't completely 100% when strange dogs are around, I call him back when i do see strange dogs and put him on the lead. We haven't had him long and are working on his recall which 99% of the time is brilliant but he hasn't been 'socialised' that much so new dogs/situations excite him and his recall becomes less reliable.

But to be honest (and this isn't having a pop at anyone in any way) I would consider it common courtesy not to let my dog go running up to another dog - on or off the lead until I had managed to ascertain with the dogs owner that he/she was friendly.

Twice this weekend while out walking in a reasonably busy area, I recalled Freddie and put him on the lead each time we spotted other dogs - most of the people we met did the same, or kept their dogs at heel or asked if they should put them on the lead. The exceptions were someone with a RR and someone with two terriers - on both occasions, the dogs were called back and took no notice, charging up to me and Freddie who as he was on the lead got a little upset at this sudden invasion of his space! This naffed me off - I feel I'm a responsible dog owner trying to do the best for my dog by training him to be well disciplined so that he doesn't get into dangerous situations and it irriatates me when others don't have the same consideration.

As I said, this really isn't having a pop at anyone (and I'd like to reiterate that as there seems to be a bit of a debate on here) but this is how I feel about issues like this :-)
 
You have NO idea how much my dogs socialise with other's dogs. Every day. Twice a week we do a "pack walk" with close to a dozen other dogs owners. Some have only one dog, other 3 or 4. They are ALL allowed to run together, one the beach, in the woods, fields BUT we all put our dogs back on their leads when a stranger approaches with or without dogs. It is just plain respect.

My dogs also are PAT dogs, agility competitors, and some show ring dogs. So far from as you arrogantly assume they are in now way "billy no mates". And who said they are only off the lead at the beach? I have 64 acres for them to run freely on. Friends visit with their dogs several times a week and they all are out together. Various other's like the farriers dogs, all are frequent visitors. And 2 dog training clubs use my land for tracking and obedience courses on a regular basis and at the end of training we have get togethers for all the dogs.

One day you will no doubt learn the hard way and much to the pity of your own poor canine the lesson that not all dogs are happily approached by a strange one. Then how are you going to feel holding your dog screaming with a missing eye, torn ear, lacerated abdomen, borken tail just because you are too up your own a*"! to put it on a lead. Yep that happens. British law - dogs must be under control at all times in public places. If you ain't got recall it ain't under control. Period.

If you cannot be bothered to take responsibility for your own dog's and others safety and health then you should'nt have one. If you have one or a dozen why is it so darn hard to put a lead on them. How about city dwellers who have no open spaces. They walk their dogs generally fine on a lead and use dog parks with other well socialised dogs for free running.
 
This is for the OP not for the other stuff going on........

I have a similar problem (without the aggression bit) with my border collie......... his prob is the opposite in that he loves dogs too much so will run off to say hello, lies down underneath them with legs in the air being the biggest submissive puff EVER!!!!!!!!

Which is fine when the other dog on the lead is ok with it, or is not on a lead and is ok with it then they play and all is good.
However we have had a few instances in the past few months when he has layed down even a few metres away and the other dog has just totally lost it and lunged at him. Luckily beau is quite a fast little fecker so gets up and goes! Either that or he tries to become one with the ground (and when I see a big dobbie ontop of him........... thats not really what I want!)

so now I am working on what cavecanem suggested which is whilst on a walk off lead he is fine, but if we see another dog, before he gets a chance to run over to them I call him back ot heel off the lead and we walk past and are happy. If the other dog owner says they are ok then if their dog wants to approach mine then I will let beau say hello, if not then he stays right next to me until we are past and then we move on with the walk.

I know you say diesel has never been agressive before but i think this was prob a bit of defence over marley your other dog. So maybe next time you are on a walk, if there is another dog call them back to you so they focus back on you and not hte other dog and remain as their little pack rather than Diesel seeing an intruder....... (does that make sense?)

we occasionally have this problem (not aggression just barking) with the 2 spaniels and beau as when beau did just run hell for leather up to every tom dick and harry occasionally the spaniels would bark and try to chase the other dog away....... rarely, but occasionally! So now we just try to keep them as a pack and if the other dog wants to come in to say hello then its up to it, our dogs are not going head first to it asking for a fight........

Hope this helps a bit (if any!)
Its hard, but I think u did the right thing in apologising and offering to cover a check up if the owner felt so inclined.
Id say no muzzle yet (as often can make things worse) just next time u are out try to ensure they dont go charging to other dogs and if he ignores you and goes, then it may be muzzle time and lots of lead work and long line work to reinforce recall and respect with it etc...

But ur not alone!
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You have NO idea how much my dogs socialise with other's dogs. Every day. Twice a week we do a "pack walk" with close to a dozen other dogs owners. Some have only one dog, other 3 or 4. They are ALL allowed to run together, one the beach, in the woods, fields BUT we all put our dogs back on their leads when a stranger approaches with or without dogs. It is just plain respect.

My dogs also are PAT dogs, agility competitors, and some show ring dogs. So far from as you arrogantly assume they are in now way "billy no mates". And who said they are only off the lead at the beach? I have 64 acres for them to run freely on. Friends visit with their dogs several times a week and they all are out together. Various other's like the farriers dogs, all are frequent visitors. And 2 dog training clubs use my land for tracking and obedience courses on a regular basis and at the end of training we have get togethers for all the dogs.

One day you will no doubt learn the hard way and much to the pity of your own poor canine the lesson that not all dogs are happily approached by a strange one. Then how are you going to feel holding your dog screaming with a missing eye, torn ear, lacerated abdomen, borken tail just because you are too up your own a*"! to put it on a lead. Yep that happens. British law - dogs must be under control at all times in public places. If you ain't got recall it ain't under control. Period.

If you cannot be bothered to take responsibility for your own dog's and others safety and health then you should'nt have one. If you have one or a dozen why is it so darn hard to put a lead on them. How about city dwellers who have no open spaces. They walk their dogs generally fine on a lead and use dog parks with other well socialised dogs for free running.

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well said. there really are some downright stupid comments on this post
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my whippet has been attacked twice by bigger dogs who are aggressive and were off the lead. both times my whippet was on the lead. it really pees me off the people just let their dogs hooley about everywhere and just make a token gesture to get them back. mine are off the lead if there is nobody about and go back on when there are people there as i can't trust their recall 100%- the odd time they have managed to bugger off before i've caught them i have been very apologetic about them. i swear the next time something like this happens i am going to go absolutely mental...and it will happen sooner or later i can guarantee as there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there who think its ok for dogs to have a bit of a scrap
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You are quite right, I have no idea how your dogs are socialised as you stated in your first post

" We have 11 dogs, some fantastic off lead and are obedience trained, most have their KC good citizens. I still respect other dog owners and keep them on a lead at all times in public places. The only exception is on the odd beach when I can see for a long way that there is not another soul around. And it someone does appear they are back on their leads in a flash. "

I am not a mind-reader, there was no mention of 64 acres to run around in.So I suggest you stick to your fields for exercising your dogs and let us mere mortals without the luxury of own land, go to the very few large parks left for us to exercise our dogs freely. Then you won't come across irresponsible dog owners like myself and I won't come across neurotic, self-interested people like you.

By the way, as my head is still up my arse, one of my dogs, who's expertly trained in the skill of typing is translating a series of intricate taps made by my toes and fingers to write this post, so forgive any spelling mistakes, he's not completed his training of the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
 
I have not stated anywhere in my posts that is ok for agressive dogs to be off the lead.

I only exercise my dogs off lead in 200 acres of parkland. They remain on the lead at all other times.

My dogs have never been involved in a dog fight with other dogs.

My dogs have never been attacked by another dog.

In total I have owned 8 dogs, walked over 25 different dogs , shown various dogs and have never experienced the kind of aggression some of you say you have experienced. Now, either I am doing something right/incredibly lucky or some of you are exaggerating, for whatever reasons, your experiences
 
I must be in a tiny minority, but I agree with Blazing Saddles - In general, if you leave dogs to get on with it and don't intervene, fights are rare. Serious fights are extrememly rare. Real problems occur when owners try and step in.

I worked with dogs for 10 years (in the far distant past) and can remember only 2 that died from fight injuries. One was a yorkie that had had the poor judgement to attack a rottie that 'nipped' him and the other a great dane that was killed by it's litter mate in a fight over their dam when she was in season.

Most dog fights amount to little more than snarling and noise, with no actual injuries - even injuries which need stitches are pretty unusual. Of course, occassionally they do get serious but - so long as they are allowed to - dogs know far more about how to be dogs and negotiate their way out of a fight than we do.

Getting bitten (people and dogs) usually occur when someone tries to protect their dog, causing added stress and excitement and usually restricting their own dog so that it becomes fearful and often aggressive - an instigator of violence in self-defence, but caused, however unwittingly, by the caring owner.

Do I put my dog on lead when other are around? It depends on the situation, but not usually. However, if you are not going to let your dog off lead and are scared of meeting other dogs, don't take it to public areas where other people want to take the opportunity to let their dogs run - stick to the streets, it makes no difference to the dog.
 
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The exceptions were someone with a RR and someone with two terriers - on both occasions, the dogs were called back and took no notice, charging up to me and Freddie who as he was on the lead got a little upset at this sudden invasion of his space! This naffed me off - I feel I'm a responsible dog owner trying to do the best for my dog by training him to be well disciplined so that he doesn't get into dangerous situations and it irriatates me when others don't have the same consideration.

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This happened to me last week as well and I am still angry about it. Dax was on-lead and walking to heel when two springers dashed out of the woods and ran full pelt up to us, barking and snapping at both her and me. Their owner was calling them back but they didn't take a blind bit of notice and I was forced to stick my boot up their arses as my dog was terrified and trying to climb behind my legs to get away.

I got the 'oh, they've never done that before!' routine; the bloke seemed surprised when I gave him an earful of abuse. She's only a young pup and has been utterly brilliant when meeting strange dogs and people, thus far, but hasn't the capacity yet to deal with two strange aggressive dogs and so I keep her on a lead. I only wish others had the same courtesy.
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As for:

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You are telling me that your dogs never go off the lead to socialise with other dogs? What nonsense. Dogs need to have the opportunity to play with other dogs, regardless if you have 1, 11 or 50 dogs.

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It is highly unlikely that I will ever be able to let my dog off-lead in a public place where she is able to approach other people and dogs. How do we feel about that?
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I don't have any land of my own on which to exercise my dog, not even a decent garden, so he is let off the lead *gasp* in public *shock* and when it is appropriate he is allowed to play with other dogs *the horror*

So shoot me already.
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If my spangle had behaved like that he'd have got my boot up his arse...

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And there we find the middle ground. Everyone happy now?
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Very rarely do true dog fights occur. The dogs number one priority is survival. He knows to enter into a fight with a stronger, fitter opponent is pointless.

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My old Cocker Spaniel would pick a fight with any male dog, but was ok with bitches. I rarely walked him off our farm for fear of loose dogs approaching him. However, luckily for me he was small enough to pick up should a dog come wandering off the footpaths across the farm and Jasper's hackles were raised.

I would ALWAYS shout "is your dog ok" to someone else when I meet them with my new puppy and am always tentative about meetings. I prefer to keep the meetings/socialising with the other dogs at dogskool and not some random dogs whose temperament I have no idea of.
 
Ah what a post! DaisyDuke I have a patterdalexBT who sounds spitting image of yours in Every way. Do pm if youd like any advice or just a chat x
 
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I have not stated anywhere in my posts that is ok for agressive dogs to be off the lead.

I only exercise my dogs off lead in 200 acres of parkland. They remain on the lead at all other times.

My dogs have never been involved in a dog fight with other dogs.

My dogs have never been attacked by another dog.

In total I have owned 8 dogs, walked over 25 different dogs , shown various dogs and have never experienced the kind of aggression some of you say you have experienced. Now, either I am doing something right/incredibly lucky or some of you are exaggerating, for whatever reasons, your experiences

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i don't see how this is relevant to my reply?
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i simply said in response to you that i found it worrying that you thought it ok for dogs to have a bit of a fight to sort something out....
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Get serious. You keep your dogs on the lead at all times except occasionally at the beach? And only some are fantastic off the lead? What are you talking about? You are telling me that your dogs never go off the lead to socialise with other dogs? What nonsense. Dogs need to have the opportunity to play with other dogs, regardless if you have 1, 11 or 50 dogs.

I'm sick of people who take their dogs to large, open spaces where others like to run their dogs and then complain when other dogs come up and say hello. Let the dogs get on with it, if one steps out of line another will put it in its place, thats dogs. I feel immensely sorry for your billy-no-mates hounds.

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I have to agree, dogs should be allowed to be dogs.

My dogs only go on a slip if I see someone else grab their dog - I judge it by others, my dogs are very social and have many mates they fly around with every day - sometimes up to 8 dogs playing together in open spaces.

IF however, I see one approaching on a lead, mine are called back and I do the same. It's courtesey and avoids potential trouble.

The thought of never or rarely letting them play with other dogs makes me really very sad!
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There is no way come hell or high water I would let luna off the lead, she has no recall despite trying to train her all year and she just hates other dogs unless they are labs. She is a malamute and they are quite well known for their dislike of small dogs.

She is my OHs and she is off the lead when he takes her out at work in the field but no way when he comes out with me on the horse, I dread to think about the damage she could do.
 
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