problem with new horse please help

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tillsmum

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Hi,
I have got a new horse (Welsh Cob) on trial till the end of April. She hasn't done anything for at least 2 years (I suspect more). When I went to try her out she backed up and spun but slowly and she was in a bitless bridle which I have never ridden in so wasn't sure if I was causing it she did walk on nicely for a little bit before starting. But she didn't seem dangerous so we agreed on a 2 month trial. So far I have lunged her and longreined her. Which she does well. When we started longreining she did used to spin and try and go home and we have cured that to the point where it happens infrequently. She doesn't do stand very well and that can take some time to achieve. She does back up and go round in a circle when I ask for a halt. We have built up a relationship where she trusts me and will move away from pressure from the hand. She will go anywhere with me when I am leading her and has pretty much stopped the barging behaviour that she had when she came. Anyway I have now got to the stage where I can get on and off her and she will stand quietly for me to do that. She goes forward well in walk when someone is leading her and I'm on her but if I ask her to go on her own she spins towards home and then starts backing up and spining almost as if she is trying to get away from the bridle. I have tried giving her all the rein etc. but she almost goes into a zone where she doesn't realise she can go forward and looks for somone on the ground to come get her. She is backing up away from home so not a typical nap. What can I do to prevent this and get her thinking forward when I am on her as I would hate to have to send her back now. She never at any point feels as i she is going to rear or bolt etc.
Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.
 
Hi her old owner was a new horse owner that brought a "cob" and then got scared off her I suspect this backing up is a learnt behaviour because she would get off and stop riding her.

I'm a saddler so the saddle is fine the back lady can't come out till the 16th April. Teeth I haven't done so thats one to think of. My DH is having palpitations at all the money that is getting thrown at a horse I don't own. So having to do things on the sneak ;)
 
Once she clears all the checks, I would start by doing a short circular route with her. You could do it in-hand, then long rein it. Once she long reins the route nicely, try riding it, If possible have someone on foot who can walk with you. If she stops they can then lead her forwards and drop behind you once she is walking on again. When you want to take her out alone, don't turn around and give up, even if you have to lead her most of the way and only ride the last few 100 yards! ;)

Once she does that route without hicups, try a different route (again circular) but dont worry if you need to go back a stage to begin with.

This problem sounds fixable (from your description) but you need time and this is obviously not endless as you need to decide if you want to keep her or not.
 
definitely get all the usual checks done as above but to me this sounds like a total lack of confidence. Have you tried long reining her out on hacks and then riding a short distance and building it up a bit each time?
 
sounds just like my lad who was a very late starter:) nothing wrong with his back or saddle or teeth, just his confidence;) with someone on the ground he was fine o walk out with me riding, didn't matter who was on the ground just as long as there was a body to follow!
june2010004.jpg

even a small child was enough lol;)
If i tried to ride on my own he would go backwards, we did a whole circuit of the paddock in reverse once!! i honestly think he was trying to find me, he knew i was up there behind him and was trying to step back to get to me, of course not realising that no matter how much he stepped back i was always going to be just 'behind' him;) it took a lot of talking and praising just like i do when i'm longreining to get him going forward;) OH says the poor horse is only going forward to get away from my nagging voice haha:p
Up until recently i didn't have anyone to ride out with me but now i have i let her ride the boy and i take the grumpy mare and he's coming on great, today in fact was his 2nd time out hacking on the road and he was a bloomin star!!!
 
The problem is I have only tried to ride her yesterday and today. Yesterday my hubby had her on the lunge line after I had lunged and longreined her first and I just jumped on and we did a little bit of walking in the field and then rode her back to the yard brilliant she was responsive and halted at the end in a solid halt and stood dead still. Today I lunged her for a bit then got on and asked her to walk forward she went about 8 steps then spun so I asked her to walk forward again and the backing up started. It almost starts as a "if i do this you'll get off". But i don't so then she almost gets herself in a tizz and can't think forward anymore. I struggle to get her to stand still never mind go forward. I have done the walking and longreining round a short circuit and up and down the road. She doesn't seem to like going somewhere she hasn't been before. I think confidence is one of the issues and I'm not scared of her but really just can't think how to break the cycle and get her to go forward. As once I have got her to stand and squeeze with a very loose rein she doesn't go forward
 
ibbledibble that sounds just like it. But do i have the time to get her going. I have fallen for her hook line and sinker but I know that there is no point having her if I can't ride her. And i think she will be lovely to ride once we have found the forward button. She loves longriening and walking down the road ears pricked and lovely forward walk. I am getting very fit walking her speed everywhere. I have no-one to ride with without boxing hers to me or mine to her.
 
I think that for now, you need a helper on the ground, who can step in when needed and take the lead as in the wonderful photo above.

The other alternative would be to ride out with another horse (and their rider). ETA, just seen your above post that another horse isn't easy to arrange.
 
You first need to eliminate a physical problem, so unfortunately this means a vet visit to look for obvious signs of pain, e.g. lameness, back, etc. and check routine stuff, e.g. teeth.

If there is no pain then you need to ask yourself if you want to have a nappy horse. She will take a while to come right, as she is only on loan at the moment, is this something you want to deal with?

There are a number of responses to this kind of napping, which one will work depends on the type of horse (but be careful some may have severe reactions to some of these ideas):

- some horses improve if you get off and lead them, then back on again and continue. Only do this if you think you will have control on the ground, you don't want her pissing off. You need the patience of a saint, but it does work with some types of horses.

- some horses pack it in with a really positive approach, so set off at a trot, wear spurs and smack her one with the whip (be careful not to get bucked off though!!!! Some horses react well to this, others don't!).

- some horses are better with another horse, is there another, steady, confident horse you can hack out with for a while?

- finally the odd on likes to reverse past things, so if she won't go forwards, maybe she will rein back?
 
tillsmum said:
ibbledibble that sounds just like it. But do i have the time to get her going. I have fallen for her hook line and sinker but I know that there is no point having her if I can't ride her. And i think she will be lovely to ride once we have found the forward button. She loves longriening and walking down the road ears pricked and lovely forward walk. I am getting very fit walking her speed everywhere. I have no-one to ride with without boxing hers to me or mine to her.
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if you have the time and the inclination then go for it, :) it really was all about confidence with my boy, i did so some sessions with me short reining lol, i would walk alongside him level with the saddle holding the reins up by his withers to try and replicate me riding without being on top, makes your arms ache though!! it suddenly seem to just click with him, one day we were going no where (or backwards) and then all of a sudden he offered some forward steps, my reaction of course was 'good boy good boy good boy' like he'd given me the world but he responded with more forward and from then on he just seemed to get it :D best feeling in the world when you make that breakthrough:D
 
Typical welsh cob behaviour! They are very clever, but can also lack confidence and think they know best. Once she trusts you you will be able to work through it, make sure you have all the time in the world and reward any forward movement. If she backs up then take control of the movement, the same for spinning. Then ask her to go forward. She will in the end. In my experience they hate being smacked or forced to do anything and are devils at getting people off! Trust is the main thing, plus time and consistency. If you have this then go for it. They are great horses if you are confident and can stick with them when they have their difficult times. If you aren't this or think that one day you might not be (my riding and confidence plummeted post children) then don't buy her. If you want to hack on your own then there are plenty of horses that will do this without all the stress you may have to go through with this mare.
 
shes the 4th welsh mare i have had the pleasure to work with and they are the best most giving animals ever. I have had my post child lull and I know when we get over this hurdle I will be rewarded with the best friend ever. She is already so rewarding on the floor.But its finding the way to get over this hurdle without breaking the trust cause although typically bolshy etc she is extremely sensitive
 
Go for it then as the main thing will be a lack of confidence for her and she will look to you for that. If you know then breed then you will know they are higly motivated by food. I reward my boy with a polo - works a treat. Good luck, I don't envy you as I had the same thing with my boy, but once through it we could hack on our own anywhere.
 
Sounds like your just the mummy she needs! stick with it. I agree about checking for pain, but you already know that.

Does she accept the bit? My girl was more forward and confident once I'd solved her seemingly minor mouth issues....sounds weird but she suddenly allowed a better contact which gave her more confidence.

Sounds like lack of confidence and will take some mega patience from you, but if you like her so much then it'll be worth it. I was working with a nappy youngster and my intructor taught me to get her moving either left or right whenever she started to stop or going backwards. We used to nag gently left or right, making her move a leg ....and wouldnt let up til she moved forward. It worked BRILLIANTLY! you would need to master it in a school first. These days if she plants then you only have to ask her sideways and she remembers and moves on.

Hope this is helpful
 
How experienced are you? Sounds like a horse who doen't know the basic principles of "go forwards" from the leg, achieved by basic training.
 
I'm with cosmo, very typical welsh cob behaviour. Take their time to trust you, and come across as bolshy when actually very sensitive. The one I remember who was like this was a pain to hack, he just didnt want to pass cows! So plenty of getting off and leading him past, remount and off we go. I would keep your patience, go out with a person on foot who can take the lead at times and stay out of the way at others until she works it out. Disagree that water or a hand up the backside will do much with this mare.
 
While I suppose in the long run this horse will improve, I think there are plenty of better behaved horses available to purchase. I think if a horse has been left untrained & unridden for some time, you begin to lose the window of time when their brains are malleable. In your situation, I would look for a more straightforward horse, unless you have a particular reason for wanting this horse.
 
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