Problems feeding alfalfa... need a new chaff for tb!

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HensPens

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I'd thought that possibly the sugar in our Alfalfa that made him a pain in the arse so started him on Dengie Healthy Hooves, a low sugar alfalfa and pellet chaff. He's been on it since Monday, he's a miserable nightmare
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But, alfalfa is meant to be great for tb's
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So, I need a chaff! He needs something with no sugar and no alfalfa. As the Healthy Hooves isn't working out he's just going to get sugar beet and nuts. He's accidentally ended up out of work at the moment and although a poor doer he does condition score at around 2.3, by normal standards a tad under but by his standards he's good.

Once the speedibeet is finished I'm going to change him to calm and condition (if he likes it). But again that's been advised to feed with a chaff.

Help! (sick to death of researching horse feed
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I've also spoken to the various feed companies but they of course only ever advise on one brand of feed...
 
My once skinny tb is on calm and condition and fast fibre she has chaff as well but the c and c is the only feed that doesnt send her ott.Fast fibre will bulk the feed for you.
 
The best thing to do is contact simplesystem.co.uk feeds they are fantastic!!!
Just let them know yr situation had email responses within 30 mins!
They do many low suger, no mollasses!!
Give them a go not too expensive either!!!

Let us know how u get one :-D
Michelle
 
Taken from another forum...

[ QUOTE ]
I contacted all the companies and got the sugar contents for various chaff products

Spillers Happychaff - 30%:eek:
Horsehage mollichaff org - 16.5%
" " apple chaff 17.5%
" " showshine 12%
Baileys Golden Chaff 10%
(with alf alfa added )
Dengie Hi Fi lite 4%
" " hi fi senior 8%
 
Alison 27, thanks for that but hi-fi lite is alfalfa.

michellev123 , have spoken to simple systems, what they advise I feed is £100 per month, even the basics are £70 a month.

teddyt, why do I want to change? I don't know! C&C seems to be speedibeet based but with a few added extras for condition, plus they sent me a £3 off voucher (although I'll have to give away the healthy hooves to free up a bin!).

I might finish the speedibeet first and see how he goes on that, the just grass sounds like the answer, will contact them for a sample. Thanks!
 
I'm sorry but I simply don't understand your post.

As far as I know there isn't any sugar in alfalfa. However, there is sugar/molasses in both sugar beet and some nuts/cubes (molasses is the binding agent)

So I don't quite understand how changing the chaff when he is on what sounds like a sugar laden diet will improve anything.

Low sugar chaff - Dodson and Horrell Fibergy - worked a treat on a sugar intolerant pony we used to own.

Alison27 - that is VERY INTERESTING and confirms everything I suspected - that Happy Hoof (Happychaff as you call it) is the worst of the lot despite being approved by the Laminitis Trust. I hope others read this who shot me down in flames when I blamed the Happy Hoof for sending my sugar intolerant pony loopy and got poo pooed by them.
 
Sugar sends him loopy so I feed him speedi-beet which has low sugar.

I thought maybe it was the sugar in Dengie Alfalfa that made him grumpy but then I tried him on Dengie Healthy hooves as that has no sugar and he's a git.

So to reiterate:
Speedibeet-low sugar
Dengie healthy hooves- low sugar

Alfalfa-any form- not good, it's not the sugar in it its the actual alfalfa.
Sorry if my first post wasn't clear (I blame the wine), he appears to be insensitive to both sugar and alfalfa.
 
Speedibeet is the same energy level as calm and condition per kg dry weight but has almost zero starch, whilst c&c has 19% starch. So you may find that if your horse is sensitive to sugar, a move to a much higher starch feed may not be a good idea, especially when the overall energy content is the same.
 
No I'm not 100% sure it's the feed but by removing alfalfa and sugar previously he has gone back to 'normal', in fact feed has been the last think I've thought about but from experience that's the thing that effects him most.

tbh the sugar is less of an issue than the alfala, it appears to be alfala and cereals that effect him the most.

I just wanted advise on chaffs that didn't contain either sugar or alflafa and with the d&h just grass that seems to hit the nail on the head!
 
A good basic chaff with nothing added at all, it's just fast dried grass and my horses seem to love it is Graze On by Northern Crop Driers. It's the only chaff that my lot want to eat, the rest gets shoved around and singled out but they finish this every time.
 
Teddyt that's very interesting, will be sticking with the speedibeet until the bag is over anyway.

OH thinks the horse is like an ADHD kid (no E numbers!
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[ QUOTE ]
If he is ok on no chaff then why feed any?

[/ QUOTE ]

The physical form of chaff helps hard feed move through the gut effectively, so is better for the horse. It also slows down eating, which again is better for the horse. Some horses also need extra energy in their diet and certain chaffs can provide this with minimal or zero starch.
 
Despite the marketing that suggests differently Healthy Hoof is not no sugar as it contains molasses.

Speedibeet is molasses free and tends to be very safe to feed. If you want to be doubly sure you can soak it once, drain, then either wash through or soak a second time and drain again before feeding.

So I'd lose the Healthy Hoof before I lost the Speedibeet.

Fast Fibre is excellent - molasses free and bulks up feeds. Some horses aren't keen on the taste at first so add a little mint to make it more palatable.

It doesn't surprise me that your horse reacts to alfalfa - many horses do. Alfalfa is a legume rather than a grass and is in the same family as clovers, lentils and peanuts (weirdly!). They are high in protein and not something the horse would have evolved to eat in the wild, certainly not in large quantities.

It sounds like your horse is in the metabolically sensitive group. Do you have any issues with him when the spring grass comes through - either change in behaviour or just general performance when ridden? Are his hooves smooth all the way down or does he have stress rings?

If you still want to feed a chaff to mix in with the speedibeet (or fast fibre if you give it a go) then chose one that's molasses free... TopSpec TopChop Lite is a good one, that also has no alfalfa or preservatives. Metabolically sensitive horses can also react to preservatives and mold inhibitors that most feed companies put in their feeds.

D&H Just Grass might also be a good option - it's a mixed species dried grass (unlike Readigrass which is single species ryegrass). It has no molasses and though slightly reticent about feeding it to my lot at first (they're barefoot and no sugar/no molasses diet is vitally important for optimum hoof peformance) they've been on it a couple of weeks, their feet are looking great and they're walking over rocks and stones with no sensitivity, so it seems to be working.
 
My TB went nuts on alfa-a, and I couldn't understand why. It wasn't so much that it made him lively, it made him really stressy and miserable, when he was normally so laid back. I posted on here even as he had lunged at me a couple of times and bitten me really badly which was so unlike him. The only real thing I could think of was that I had changed him from Alfa-A oil to normal AA...but I thought to myself that surely couldn't cause that behaviour, and thought nothing more of it.

Anyhow....I saw on here that Alfa A had molasses in it, whereas Alfa-A Oil doesn't. So I switched him back and I have my nice laid back horse again. I cannot believe that molasses could have such an affect on him, but they do so we avoid them all together now!!! So maybe worth trying AAoil and see if that helps?

ETA - I feed speedibeet and lo-cal balancer with the AAoil and he looks really really good on it...zero molasses and zero starch!
 
[ QUOTE ]
If he is ok on no chaff then why feed any?

[/ QUOTE ]

slows down eating, bulks out food, stops them gorging quickly and gives them longer to enjoy their grub
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he is ok on no chaff then why feed any?

[/ QUOTE ]

slows down eating, bulks out food, stops them gorging quickly and gives them longer to enjoy their grub

[/ QUOTE ]

Many countries (e.g. America, Canada) don't feed chaff AT ALL, and all their horses aren't dying as they stand....

HensPens - of course you don't need beet with chaff. Just put water in it instead. I have to give chaff so my horse can have his meds, and I just wet it with water.

Why not just a balancer like topspec? Have you tried pink powder in case it is a gut/ulcer problem?
 
gedenskis_girl , YES I've only been around him since June so no idea about the spring grass, but he is sensitive, I'm usually first to question myself then the food.

Will stop the healthy hooves tomorrow (have already made breakfast) and just give him speedi beat.

He does have rings in his feet, he's due to try barefoot on the 5/2 and I have an EP coming out to see him.

He is a very easy horse but as he's so sensitive he can be a handful when I f*ck up his feed.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he is ok on no chaff then why feed any?

[/ QUOTE ]

slows down eating, bulks out food, stops them gorging quickly and gives them longer to enjoy their grub

[/ QUOTE ]

Many countries (e.g. America, Canada) don't feed chaff AT ALL, and all their horses aren't dying as they stand....

HensPens - of course you don't need beet with chaff. Just put water in it instead. I have to give chaff so my horse can have his meds, and I just wet it with water.

Why not just a balancer like topspec? Have you tried pink powder in case it is a gut/ulcer problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true, a horse won't die as they stand without chaff. You are correct.
 
Its not always about killing the horse though! The horse may be ok without chaff but its digestion could be BETTER with it. Especially if the horse is a poor do-er.
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