Professional riders losing temper in public

tobiano1984

tobiano1984

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Interesting reading about the Ben Maher incident - I haven't seen it but it's reminded me of something I saw the other week. At Firle Place HT, I was watching a friend in the Novice and a well known young eventer was also competing in it, they went on to do very well at Burghley and profile has considerably increased recently. I didn't know who it was at the time but their horse was being a pain in the SJ warm up and was obviously highly strung/over excited - but the rider was yanking it in the mouth whilst simultaneously whacking it with the wrong end of the whip (i.e. the heavy handle end), which went on for a good 10 minutes. Unsurprisingly this wasn't sorting out the problem and looked to be making it worse! Unhorsey OH uncharitably said he hopes the horse throws them off as they'd deserve it. Of course as observers we didn't know anything about what was going on or the story behind it, but the horse wasn't napping or refusing or anything, it just looked very overexcited and the rider looked like they had just lost their rag with it.

We've all probably lost our tempers with our horses at some point, but I was surprised when I heard the name of the rider and then saw them crop up in higher-level events and in magazine features giving clinics and talking about soft hands etc etc, and thought they should really think about their PR!! They were being watched by lots of spectators and other riders.

Nothing is more admirable than seeing a good rider dealing appropriately with a difficult horse and keeping their cool.
 
One of the best i saw was Zara Phillips on a horse and country programme riding toytown in a flatwork session for tv who was being a pratt, he was napping and rearing, she just sat it out, pushed him on and told him to behave and stop being a pratt basically. No shouting, kicking, smacking just cool tempred common sense, very nicely handled
 
As a teenager I was stunned to see the man who had previously been my idol (and many others idol) outside the ring, and hidden behind his box, giving his horse the beating of his life for knocking down two jumps. I am afraid I shouted at him and told him what I thought and got his trademark two fingers in response. By biggest hate is to see someone take their frustration out on an animal that doesn't understand why it is being abused.
 
Tobiano, I wonder if the eventer you mentioned is the same one who, not too long ago, was heavily criticised for whacking seven shades out of a horse half way round a course.

I think whenever there is money involved, there are always going to be people who hold that as the highest importance, with the horses being simply vehicles.
Many years ago at the South of England show, we watched an appalling SJ round by a certain professional with a rather distinctive jumping 'style'. She made every mistake possible and proceeded to beat the hell out of the horse once back in the collecting ring. When her father intervened, he was abused with the most foul language imaginable and she looked like she would have used the stick on him too if there hadn't been so many people around. Disgusting woman.
 
With the advent of cameras in mobile phones one just can not afford to be caught out as the general public will not approve and the sponsors will drop anyone seen to be misbehaving like a lead balloon.
 
not a proffesional but I saw a young girl no older than 15 at a county show this year think it must have been a HOYS qualifier, anyhow her pony refused and then refused again and she gave it the biggest battering in the middle of the ring in front of everyone!! Ive never seen a mother and friends so embarrased to be with this girl!!! Disgusting behaviour dont condone it one bit!! Yes sometimes a horse needs the odd telling off but not a battering!!

I was brought up on 'never the horse always the rider'
 
Not sure if it's the same rider LittleBlackMule! I'd never heard of them until Firle, and then surprised to see them do so well at Burghley.

Makes you wonder - if someone is happy to repeatedly whip their horse in full public view with the wrong end of the stick, what on earth goes on at home..?!
 
IMO it is not the "public" displays that are worrisome, it is when these things occur in a private setting. I have witnessed in two dressage yards terrible displays of temper and aggression from rider to horse. On both occasions I was there to have a lesson, and had stayed for a coffee afterwards and watched what was occurring in the indoor arena.

The worst one however was an event rider, an Olympic rider on the lead up to the Olympics. I was using the same training area with my own horse, and when the rider came in the horse was obviously strung up. What occurred next took my breath away, he hit, kicked, punched at the horse, dismounted and kicked it again, re-mounted and abused it some more.

I really wanted to go rip him off his horse but the effect that the incident had on my own sweet horse was incredible, he was quaking in his shoes, spinning a circle. I decided to save my own boy, and left the training area.

In all of these cases I would have loved to make an official complaint, but all three riders were high profile professionals. I would have complained to the FEI, but I am a "nobody", and I am sure that if I had of complained I would have been told that these are professionals on high mettle competition horses and that I did not understand. To really make a complaint I would have needed video. That would have had to be acted on. I felt in a bad position, the event rider was not even in team GBR, but was a foreign rider.

I did make a complaint to the yard owner of the event rider, and they said they would deal with it.

One of the dressage riders I told the rider concerned that they were too harsh for my liking. The reaction was predictable. Apparently I know nothing. I have said that I would rather do less with my horse than do THAT.

With all three scenarios my choice is to not frequent the places. I just don't go there. I feel in a bit of a quandary as I am letting the horses down. But, I am not willing to subject my horse to that environment, or pay good money for lessons, and then spend my time trying to get a video. I really do think that no video = no proof = no one will believe that the abuse is just that, not a rider correcting the horse.

As regards the SJ thread running, I looked at that with anticipation, but IMO the video shows little. The horse stops, the rider is momentarily unbalanced forwards, the horse goes to move off, the rider grabs at the front end and pulls right back, the reaction on the video looks so quick it is all over in a flash.

I am not sure what the answer is, but the video in question is not clear enough IMO to "make an example" of this rider. The videos to show riders abusing horses will most likely need to be taken at their yards, not in the public view. How that is achieved I do not know.
 
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Not a horsey person, but this isn't behaviour limited to horses alone - indeed you can see it in almost any environment where at least one person is placed under conditions of stress, made worse often when combined with emotion as well.

We don't, in general, "teach" each other much about how to deal with emotions, its something we are born with and mostly expected to get on and learn how to deal with; where most instruction we get is mostly telling us to suppress emotion (its often more intended to be controlled release - however it mostly comes off as suppress it altogether).

As a result some people grow up with a reduced capacity to deal with emotions in a proper manner. When the stress mounts up upon them (say a competing event where losing means no money - maybe lose the ride and thus future income as well etc.. then the emotion combined with the lack of proper ability to deal with and release the emotion can build into a more volatile reaction.

This reaction could be words, shouting, posturing or in worse cases physical violence. You see it in road-rage as well and in other situations. You can also see it in the way that sometimes the person "hides" this outburst - back of the mind they know its partly wrong; but its also all that they know - they don't know another way to release the tension, stress etc....

We've all felt it too - that temptation to hit the wheel when someone cuts us up etc... My view is that the only way to fix the issue is to deal with the problem - sadly when dealing with adults or other peoples children/teenagers it can be very hard to have any kind of meaningful influence upon them. Especially as many methods used to help people deal with these emotions is oft considered to be religious or "wishy washy" such stuff.
 
Marydoll said:
One of the best i saw was Zara Phillips on a horse and country programme riding toytown in a flatwork session for tv who was being a pratt, he was napping and rearing, she just sat it out, pushed him on and told him to behave and stop being a pratt basically. No shouting, kicking, smacking just cool tempred common sense, very nicely handled
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Yeah but then she was being filmed for TV at the time... who knows what a lot of these pro's get up to at home. Its so sad there's so much nastiness in the horse world. Maybe I'm really weird but I want my horses to jump and do things for me just because they enjoy it not because they're forced into it. I think some pro's don't have time on their side so they just want quick results and can't be bothered to work through issues gently. I'm sick of the usual "you don't understand because you're not a pro", absolute rubbish. We all ride horses, it doesnt matter to what degree - we all knows that horses can do things we don't want sometimes but just because its an Olympic horse, doesn't make the correct response any different. I wonder what pro riders are actually NICE?
 
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There is no justification for a any professional in their work to lose control whatever the provocation. Would anyone accept a health worker losing control when a patient with dementia is aggressive towards them ? Certainly not.

Professional riders are highly trained. There is no excuse.
 
I remember 2 both sj. One smacked her horse several times when it stopped at the double of ditches at hickstead and the crowd did boo and shout at her.

Another was in the speed derby and horse stopped at road jump and I seem to recall he hit it round the head think it got banned for rest of the show but it was a while ago.

Can someone pm me who the eventer who did well at burghley is?
 
dogatemysalad said:
There is no justification for a any professional in their work to lose control whatever the provocation. Would anyone accept a health worker losing control when a patient with dementia is aggressive towards them ? Certainly not.

Professional riders are highly trained. There is no excuse.
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Sadly the health worker scenario happens all too often.
 
Years ago, a horse refused with a girl (Junior team prospect) at a tiger trap on the XC. She laid into it and stewards ordered her off her horse there and then and she was banned for the rest of the season. Her parents were very rich, influential and competitive for their kids. We all had a smirk as clearly they couldn't buy their way out of that one (for a change!).

When I # my pelvis and ribs we hired a Pro to keep my horse schooled in the meantime as we had the team selections coming up. This Pro was doing flat work and was unaware my mother was watching. She saw him struggle to get a tune out of him, then walk him into the most secluded corner of school (no-one else was riding at the time) and he proceeded to knock my horses pan in, using bit, whip and spurs. Mother legged it from car park, through yard, down track to school and told him to get off and his services were no longer required. The Pro then slagged us off to anyone who'd listen. Classy fella.
 
As a kid I remember losing my rag with horses many times, riding them badly and treating them unfairly. I didn't mean to be cruel but I didn't know how to cope with my emotions. I feel guilty about it to this day and am ashamed of myself. Temper has no place with horses, pro or leisure.

I was lucky enough to work for a well known eventing trainer for a summer. Unfortunately during that summer he had some relationship issues, he started to drink heavily even early in the morning, he got violent with his staff and hurled abuse at us (as well as furniture) and he was totally unpredictable. However the moment he took over the reins to ride he was great with the horses, quiet, calm and always fair, even the ones that were doing my head in some days. I was amazed at the change in him. So kind of the opposite of what you are talking about. Not sure what point I'm trying to make, just that emotional control can be a strange thing to master.
 
Any rider losing their temper anywhere is greatly concerning, we all get angry at our horses at some point! but I am of the mentality that it is my fault and beat myself up about it instead :p At local level i've seen awful things. At a local jumping venue I witnessed a girl get on her horse, then proceed to charge it round flat out around the course which was about 1m. The horse would have never made the wide oxer as he was jumping so flat and refused, the rider fell off in to the oxer then grabbed the horse and charged out the ring screaming " if that little b****** has hurt my baby (seems she was pregnant) i'll "effing" kill it!" but using much more vile language. She took it to the lorry park and absolutely thrashed it while yanking the reins from the ground with all the force she could apply. I shouted at her to stop and called her a few names but she didn't and just ignored everyone while beating the horse to a pulp.

Seems to be quite common for a young child and pony to be accompanied by a chavvy looking teenager, probably aged around 16-18 who is there to "sort the pony out" if it gets wound up while the child kicks and pulls it. I saw that at the same venue, and quite a large show- chavvy teenager got on far too small pony and booted it with spurs while yanking on a strong bit.. waffling on a bit but those things really stick with you as they are very upsetting :(
 
I have recently fallen out with a friend after some disgraceful riding in the warm up at a local show. I pulled her up because she was my friend and I felt it was in her interest as well as the horses. She has not spoken to me since but I would do it again!
 
MagicMelon said:
Yeah but then she was being filmed for TV at the time... who knows what a lot of these pro's get up to at home. Its so sad there's so much nastiness in the horse world. Maybe I'm really weird but I want my horses to jump and do things for me just because they enjoy it not because they're forced into it. I think some pro's don't have time on their side so they just want quick results and can't be bothered to work through issues gently. I'm sick of the usual "you don't understand because you're not a pro", absolute rubbish. We all ride horses, it doesnt matter to what degree - we all knows that horses can do things we don't want sometimes but just because its an Olympic horse, doesn't make the correct response any different. I wonder what pro riders are actually NICE?
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The thread is making reference to public displays of behaviour. my impression was that this horse acted like this when fresh fairly often and the whole thing was handles in a very calm" get on with it"
 
I can understand that people who work with horses can be rough in the eyes of people who just own one horse. This can be because they know the dangers where people who don't work with horses all the time don't see them, and possibly react more strongly because of this. That said, I have seen some seriously hideous pieces of riding from pro riders. I know when I am riding, I try to leave any emotional issues on the ground, and not take them with me onto the horse. This means if I am having a bad day, I don't ride mine, although as I ride for a living I obviously still have to ride them.
 
MagicMelon said:
Yeah but then she was being filmed for TV at the time... who knows what a lot of these pro's get up to at home. Its so sad there's so much nastiness in the horse world. Maybe I'm really weird but I want my horses to jump and do things for me just because they enjoy it not because they're forced into it. I think some pro's don't have time on their side so they just want quick results and can't be bothered to work through issues gently. I'm sick of the usual "you don't understand because you're not a pro", absolute rubbish. We all ride horses, it doesnt matter to what degree - we all knows that horses can do things we don't want sometimes but just because its an Olympic horse, doesn't make the correct response any different. I wonder what pro riders are actually NICE?
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One would hope that because Zara Phillips has the ability to persuade the horse to cooperate without using violent or cruel behaviour, that she rides like that both in public and in private.

I think it's a real shame that Ben Maher's actions last week, and the actions of other pros that people have witnessed, make us mistrustful of all pros - even when we haven't witnessed anything to suggest they act cruelly. I think this is probably, in part, due to the fact that the governing body invariably just ignores the behaviour or gives a half hearted attempt at discipline to keep up appearances.

I've always admired Zara as a rider and her love for Toytown really came across in interviews. I think she is a real passionate horsewoman, as I hope many pros are, and in it primarily for the love of the horse. I do think that there are some pros who come across as a caring or unfeeling towards the horses they are riding.

I've never witnessed first hand any cruel behaviour from a pro myself. I hope for the sake of all those talented and honest horses who give so much to equestrian sport that it doesn't happen as much as we may think.
 
It is so sad that you all have are so many examples of so-called "professionals" behaving badly. I would hardy be considered professional at work if I lost my temper with my team!
 
I think the phrase is " Spoilt brats". Probably should have had more discipline and less money at some formative point!
 
I don't know what this particular Ben Maher incident is, but I saw him belt his horse several times with his whip after being eliminated a few years ago and decided then he was a little twerp.

These riders have the privilege of being provided with quality horses to compete on, usually because they have been in the fortunate position of being able to ride and become skilled throughout their childhood because wealthy or indulgent parents have provided ponies for them. They should be sufficiently gracious and grateful not to batter the poor unfortunate creature who is daring to just be a horse, not a machine.
 
Everyone needs to remember that in whatever field, the word "professional" simply means you earn your living from doing it. It certainly doesn't mean that the standards/knowledge/ability are any better from every amateur in the country. Look how many cowboy builders there are, but they are still professionals. We also need to remember the corrupting nature of money, particularly where sport is concerned. Some people will do just about anything to win, hence reports of dodgy goings-on behind the scene on some dressage/SJ yards.
 
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