Professional riders riding without hats...?

[zxp]

My opinion is, literally on their head be it.

They are adults and as such the law curently allows them to make the choice. What I really hate is the stance that they "set a bad example".. Sorry but I grew up watching people ride without hats and a) I made my own mind up and b) if I had have decided to not wear my hat my mother would have slapped my arse so hard I would have never presumed to do it again Kids are succeptible to LOTS of role models in this world - they watch adults drive cars - should they not do that just in case they try too? No, they know the rules, just the same with hats.

I personally do not agree.

I think in a permissive environment, these things become more socially accepted and thus more widespread. I think it is naieve to think people are not influenced by others behaviours. Whilst people can always make a choice, I feel that the likeleyhood of making the safest choice is reduced if people around you do not do it. As such, I do think people in the public eye (weather that be in magazines / TV / internet) have some sort of social responsability to wear a hat. Just as they do not to smoke / drink / talk on the phone whilst driving / drink driving / take drugs etc.

 

[measles]

I have to agree anyone riding without a hat is mad. To me it is not the risk to themselves- as people say, their head, their choice- it is to those that love them. If someone dies or is in a coma or becomes a vegetable, they will know nothing about it but everyone who cares for them, or relies on them for a living as well in the case of professionals, certainly will suffer as a result. Therefore, unless a person has no friends or relatives (or employees), my opinion is that riding without a hat is an extremely selfish thing to do

I'm afraid I agree with Mavis on this one.

 

[amage]

No quirky, YOU didn't say whether you were talking about pro riders. Other posters on this thread have been discussing am & pro riders and even their own actions, you made a comment that could have and has been taken how you may or may not have meant it.

You two are completely off the wall here. If she had named any other brand of hat would you be getting so het up....no! Well you are also not the only riders who use KEP hats...well your sister does. Also neither of you are professionals so this post in no way refers to you bar your own assumption that it does! Get real

 

[quirky]

No quirky, YOU didn't say whether you were talking about pro riders. Other posters on this thread have been discussing am & pro riders and even their own actions, you made a comment that could have and has been taken how you may or may not have meant it.

Taken in a different way by you and your sister only .
Honestly, get over it, it isn't personal .

 

[K27]

Hi everyone

Anyone have an answer as to why many professional riders ride without hats!? Dressage riders mainly, but also show jumpers when at home etc. I know it's a tradition thing, but i'm suprised so many people still do it! Even if you do have a reliable and experienced horse, it is an animal after all... there is still a high risk of falling off!

What are your opinions on this?

It's their personal choice i guess, i know quite a lot of pro's that do wear hats so i think the trend is gradually changing, but i know one top pro who has helped me with one of my horses who doesn't- i must admit i have ridden at times in the past without a hat when the weather is really hot- but theres no way i'd make a habit of it and i wouldn't do it nowadays- it's so true though, you never know what's going to happen next with horses and accidents can happen in a split second.

 

[Ranyhyn]

I don't think seeing other people doing things dimishes a persons ability to make a reasoned choice, otherwise you could argue one boy in a group of gang members has dimished responsibility for knifing someone, couldn't you? Right is right and wrong is wrong, and it is wrong for people under a certain age not to wear hats.

*ETA I know some people do argue its not peoples fault that they do what they do because of their area/exposure to things but if we lose our ability to judge right and wrong simply due to outside influences I really worry about the way the world is going*

I would never not wear my hat and I always gulp when I see others not doing so, but until it becomes a law, I don't see how anyone can force their opinion on anyone else feasibly.

 

[zxp]

Goodness, no! I wouldn't dream of forcing someone to wear a hat (unless on my property!), but I do think there is some form of social acceptance that comes from individuals actions.

There have been many people who I rode with when I didnt wear a hat who chose to wear them. People made the right decision, and like you said BooDC, right is right and wrong is wrong, but I do personally feel that people who do now ride hatless do influence the likleyhood of people making the correct decision to wear a hat.

 

[kit279]

Out of sheer curiosity, would the professional rider's insurance cover them if they were not riding with a hat on?

I'm just wondering. No jockey gets on a horse without a hat so the insurance isn't really in doubt there but what about for dressage riders etc?

For instance, Courtney King-Dyer's medical bills must have been pretty hefty (no disrespect to her whatsoever meant here) and being in a non-NHS country, were they covered by her existing insurance since she was injured without a hat?

 

[SpottedCat]

Interesting question Kit - I do know that Thompson travel insurance no longer covers you for head injuries sustained whilst skiing/boarding if you are not wearing a helmet.

 

[kerilli]

Kerilli - people who ride without a hat believe they're too good to fall off and get hurt

Nope. My horse is just not a spanner.*

They don't have to be a 'spanner' to deck you, inadvertently or otherwise, onto your head. as some HHOers will attest.
this was really NOT aimed at you or your sister so really, you could chill out about it a little.

 

[CrazyMare]

Oh I do love the arguement that obesity costs the NHS more....

Going on the basis there are more obese people than brain injured ones - yes it does.

Going on cost per person, it doesn't.

A quick google shows me the average weightloss surgery costs £5-7k for surgery, maybe add another £3-4k in treatment prior to surgery.

Looking after a brain injured person through their rehabilitation (I work in this field) would be an average of 12 months IF that person is treated PROPERLY during the first 1-2 years post brain injury. Most aren't. So most come to us 3years + down the line.

The average cost of rehabilitation for brain injury is £3,250 A WEEK. Multiply that by 52 makes it £169,000 a year. Plus the costs of fixing any physical issues caused by the brain injury - be they cardiac or othopeadic.

Then add in the psychological impact on the families, the loss of earnings to the families and the sheer greif they go through.

Brain injuries are expensive and incredibly difficult to treat - you are never the same again.

 

[alwaysbroke]

They don't have to be a 'spanner' to deck you, inadvertently or otherwise, onto your head. as some HHOers will attest.

I will hold my hand and fortunately my head up be being one of those HHO's
The horse I came off is not a spanner, it has never reared or bucked at home or off site. I will never know why he became a 'spanner' that day, I CAN'T remember and that in itself is a very frightening thing, there is too much to go into about how that head injury has affected me, but there is nothing I can say is good, oh perhaps from the fact that my kids who were so upset by what happened to me now really have it instilled into them always to wear a hat, not that they didn't anyway.
I dont class OH as a professional rider, but riding is his profession, he has always ridden in his hat and now listens a little more to me about wearing a hat when handling horses.

As for the original post I can't see why pros don't wear hats, there are good light weight vented hats on the market, so can't see an excuse really.

As an ex Neuro Intensive Care nurse I have seen the enough effects of head injuries to last a life time. Also heard today about a poor girl who came off hitting her head on a fence post (apparently that's probably what happened to me) in February, she will not be leaving hospital until at least November She was also wearing a hat. There for the grace, goes me.........

 

[stencilface]

I think the thought of my OH having to wipe my bum is enough to make me put on a hat

* Although I did sit on my horse on my wedding day without a hat

 

[CrazyMare]

As an ex Neuro Intensive Care nurse I have seen the enough effects of head injuries to last a life time. Also heard today about a poor girl who came off hitting her head on a fence post (apparently that's probably what happened to me) in February, she will not be leaving hospital until at least November She was also wearing a hat. There for the grace, goes me.........

I think you must have done the stage before us - It is horrid isn't it?

 

[pennybun]

Personally I think it is madness but at the end of the day it is his head so his choice.

Yes it is the rider's choice. However, it is not the choice of the person or people who might be the ones having to pick them up off the floor and call the paramedics.
I had this discussion (somewhat heatedly) with someone recently on our yard--no they aren't a pro rider. She would not accept my point that her selfishness was putting me in a very uncomfortable position as I wolud have been the one to scrape her brains up if she'd come off her 'totally trustworthy and bombproof pony'. That pony may be safe, but you can't forsee everything.

 

[monkeybum13]

Yes it is the rider's choice. However, it is not the choice of the person or people who might be the ones having to pick them up off the floor and call the paramedics.
I had this discussion (somewhat heatedly) with someone recently on our yard--no they aren't a pro rider. She would not accept my point that her selfishness was putting me in a very uncomfortable position as I wolud have been the one to scrape her brains up if she'd come off her 'totally trustworthy and bombproof pony'. That pony may be safe, but you can't forsee everything.

No I know and I agree but I didn't want to write a great big whopping paragraph.

However it is clear that some people have their heads so far up their own arses maybe this is why they don't wear a hat, they already have padded protection

 

[alwaysbroke]

I think you must have done the stage before us - It is horrid isn't it?

Lets say it leaves a long lasting impression, the heartache and uncertainty the families go through and the indignity the patient can suffer, although everything possible is done to maintain it, could go on but perhaps a trip round an ITU/ Neuro/ Rehab unit mightn't hurt some people.

 

[Hacked_Off]

However it is clear that some people have their heads so far up their own arses maybe this is why they don't wear a hat, they already have padded protection

 

[TPO]

Even though the title is aimed at "professional" riders it does seem that the frequency of this type of thread has rapidly increased since other users posted pictures where they are riding without a hat.

I can appreciate that such pictures may bring certain opinions to the front of your mind and trigger threads like this. However no new ground is ever covered and even a technophobe like me can search and find relevant old threads where exactly the same statements and sentiments are displayed.

I have to admit that reading the comment about a person riding at home hatless and then a KEP at competitions did immediately make me think that it was in reference to Princesssparkle. I'm not saying it was but if I thought it I'm sure others did and I can see why PS & her sister felt the need to reply.

Although more a lurker than a poster I can remember Comp Riders pre PS & Nikki when other users posted pictures in which they weren't wearing hats yet there was never this frequency of "people who don't wear hats are twits" threads. Why is that? I'd reckon that at least 85% of the time any pictures posted by PS or Nikki they will be riding without hats - I'm no brains of Britain and I've figured it out so why haven't the (same) people who read the threads and leave the same comments re hats. If it offends you so much then don't open the threads.

Both posters have made their feelings clear and they are entitled to their own choices without feeling the need to defend them on an internet forum. Yet they still have to put up with thinly veiled insults.

My own opinions on wearing hats are just that, MY opinions and that doesn't give me any right to force them onto others. If someone asks me then I'll tell them but that doesn't mean anyone else's opinion is better or worse than mine and should be changed.

I thought CR was the better section of the forum but more and more frequently it's being led my mob mentality. Not just on the hat topic but the armchair experts who critise those that are actually out doing. I do realise I've stepped out of the shadows of lurking and opened myself right up but I know from other friends who read HHO (but would never post given the "atmosphere") that they feel the same and would like to see a return to what CR used to be about. Lots of reports from all levels and all disciplines and POLITE responses. No one has to gush but the emphasis should be on CONSTRUCTIVE criticism not just an opportunity to belittle someone.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one to notice a steep decline in the number of reports from the "old faithfuls" who ARE out doing because of the unjust criticism they have received in reply to their threads and other reasons I no doubt have no clue about.

Finally I don't know PS or Nikki and have never met them; I know no more than the threads I've read on the forum. I like reading their threads and hope they continue despite the negativity they constantly receive.

 

[nikkimariet]

With the best will in the world Quirky, you used a very specific example so I'm struggling to understand why you are perplexed with the response it received.

 

[quirky]

With the best will in the world Quirky, you used a very specific example so I'm struggling to understand why you are perplexed with the response it received.

Right, I'll spell it out for you.

A KEP hat starts at £400 afaik.
A CO (childs) hat starts at £45 (ish), which go up to adult sizes.

So, if somebody cares little enough about their bonce to go without a hat, why then spend £400 for a hat? Why not spend a minimum amount just for rules sake, because that is the only reason it is being worn, rules!

I am not perplexed about the response in the least. What I am is surprised that you think everything is about you and your sister all the time. On this occasion it is not, as I said before, thread title stated professional. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think either of you are professionals or in fact work full time with horses. You are hobby riders like many others on here. Nowt wrong with that, that's what I am .

Just for the record, I don't look at PS's posts any longer, so wouldn't know if she wore a KEP or if she fashioned tin foil on her head.
I saw your post riding the little dude but I can't say I noticed what hat you had on but I was pleased to see you did have one on

I would name the rider in question but I see little point as I can't find a picture with their KEP on, only a Beagler so you probably wouldn't believe me anyway .

Now, shall we bring this thread back to the OP, or do you still want to make it all about you?

 

[rhino]

So, if somebody cares little enough about their bonce to go without a hat, why then spend £400 for a hat?

Because it's a pretty hat, obviously
I found one of the previous threads on this subject interesting, looking at the risk/benefit side of things. IIRC no-one managed to come up with any benefits to NOT wearing a hat, except for looking good... which for me personally is just not a good enough reason.

(Says the person who managed to end up with a fractured skull clipping )

 

[TheoryX1]

Now, shall we bring this thread back to the OP, or do you still want to make it all about you?

I dont agree with the bitchfest going on as it smacks of the bitchfests that go on in NL, which I cant stand. However, I am with Quirky on this one. To PS and NM, I personally dont really care whether you wear a hat or not, it is entirely up to you, and I am not here to have a go at either of you, you are grown adults and your make your choices. However, in common with advice you have given to other posters on your threads, if you dont want to become involved in it, dont open the thread and dont post on it. Its a very emotive subject and having seen my daughter crash and burn over a very large table jump XC at Portman horse trials earlier on this year, saw her land on head and heck, heard the Point Two inflate, picked her up afterwards and saw that her HS1 was cracked. She is alive today because of that hat. Granted you both dont event, but as stated before, horses are unpredictable. OK, she would have been unable to ride without her hat as BE rules wouldnt let her and quite rightly so, but what if she fell of her horse whilst jumping at home and landed in the same way without wearing her hat? I shudder to think. My lovely daughter would be dead, and thats putting it bluntly. My husband and myself, plus our family and friends would have to live with it.

The next time you put on your lovely matchy matchy on your beautiful horses, and dont put your hats on, because you are on your own property and you can obviously do as you wish, think of the friends and family you may affect if you have a head injury or even worse, which could have been avoided by wearing a hat.

Finally, as stated before, the thread relates to professional riders - its not aimed at you both personally.

 

[NinjaPony]

Right, I'll spell it out for you.

A KEP hat starts at £400 afaik.
A CO (childs) hat starts at £45 (ish), which go up to adult sizes.

So, if somebody cares little enough about their bonce to go without a hat, why then spend £400 for a hat? Why not spend a minimum amount just for rules sake, because that is the only reason it is being worn, rules!

I am not perplexed about the response in the least. What I am is surprised that you think everything is about you and your sister all the time. On this occasion it is not, as I said before, thread title stated professional. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think either of you are professionals or in fact work full time with horses. You are hobby riders like many others on here. Nowt wrong with that, that's what I am .

Just for the record, I don't look at PS's posts any longer, so wouldn't know if she wore a KEP or if she fashioned tin foil on her head.
I saw your post riding the little dude but I can't say I noticed what hat you had on but I was pleased to see you did have one on

I would name the rider in question but I see little point as I can't find a picture with their KEP on, only a Beagler so you probably wouldn't believe me anyway .

Now, shall we bring this thread back to the OP, or do you still want to make it all about you?

I am afraid I have to agree. I didn't think this was about you two at all, but it doesn't suprise me that it has turned into a thread about you.
Personally I would never ever get on a horse without a hat. I think it's selfish, stupid and why would I take the risk, when I could just wear a hat?
My hat is comfortable, fits and is no burden to me, but could save my life.
I wear a hat turning out and bringing in too, and if I feel the situation requires one.
One of my favourite TV shows is Heartland, but every time I see them on a horse without a hat it sets my teeth on edge. I think its a bad example, and really annoys me
So I think professionals who ride without a hat are very foolish, for the reasons above, but considering that they need to stay fit and healthy to make their living, and this living has so many risks, I really do think it is madness!

 

[joosie]

Please bear in mind that some of the people who've posted on this thread are, like me, not regular readers & posters on the forum and couldn't possibly have known or thought that certain comments had anything to do with certain members. All due respect to NM and PS but I have no idea who either of you are, and I for one was paying more attention to the actual topic of conversation (pro riders) than to the very brief comments that you have taken offence to.

 

[rolsterlady]

wow, thanks for all your responses, i'm losing track of them! I've figured from all these posts that it's simply a matter of personal choice. Personally, I never ride without a hat as I value my life... but each to their own

 

[kerilli]

wow, thanks for all your responses, i'm losing track of them! I've figured from all these posts that it's simply a matter of personal choice. Personally, I never ride without a hat as I value my life... but each to their own

that and the fact that I think my lovely mum did quite enough wiping drool from my mouth and wiping my bum when I was a baby, so I'd really rather not risk her having to do it again in her dotage because I was selfish and didn't wear a hat and ended up a vegetable (or, worse, not a vegetable but unable to do anything about it.)

 

[TarrSteps]

Leaving aside the personal . . .

I have a fairly well developed libertarian streak (at least for the UK) so my general feeling on the subject is, "Meh, whatever."

I have also worked in areas of the industry where helmets are actively DISCOURAGED - if you want some real pressure, try wearing a hat around those folks. I usually smiled sweetly and pointed out is was my head, thanks, so not really their business but I've actually been told by someone who employed me NOT to wear a helmet! Ho hum, people are weird.

It is also definitely changing. You used to almost NEVER seen pros riding at home (or even schooling at shows) in a helmet, now it's far more common and some are actively promoting them, not only as a regular thing but in FEI dressage competition. There are more young pros around who have always worn helmets (vs even my generation, and I'm not THAT old) and in fact view them as a fashion necessity. There are also more older pros who have been lectured by their insurance companies/financial backers about managing risk. Yes, riding is risky but there is a difference between risks inherent to the sport and ones that can be easily avoided. Anyone who teaches kids also has to mindful of their students' parents, who might take a dim view of someone their kids look up to setting such an example. (No, I do not think random professionals are "examples" by definition, I'm talking specifically about people whose clients quite rightly have an opinion on their actions.)

All that said, I think the question of hats and BUSINESS is a more interesting one. While no other country in the world has reached US levels of insurance/litigation madness, it's definitely something professionals have to be aware of. (More so here than in many other countries, actually.) By the same token, as riding has become more "big business" people have more income to protect and more other people dependent on their continued function.

In that way, I think threads like this are good (sniping and paranoia aside ) because discussion gets people thinking on the subject. Yes, lots of us grew up riding without helmets and we're all still here. But that doesn't follow it's a bad idea NOW. Maybe the difference is these days, they're MORE likely to save you . . . and if you sustain a major head injury you might not actually be thankful for that!

 

[brighthair]

I wear one because I would feel odd not doing, like driving a car without a seatbelt. I also lunge in one having seen a near miss where horse bucked and shoe flew off. Mainly I wear one because the digs from my colleagues if an ambulance wad called for me and I wasn't wearing one wouldn't be worth the aggro!!
Each to their own, but I think my head and brain are very precious but honestly if someone didn't wear a hat and got badly injured, I'd just think oh well their loss. But then my job makes me a cynical old bag ;-)

 

[little_flea]

I think that for a lot of pro's, risk is part of the business. They usually don't insure their horses as it isn't financially viable and on similar grounds, I suppose that if you have ridden 6 horses every day for years or decades and not yet sustained a head injury it may seem statistically like a risk worth taking. Habit is of course also a major factor, and we often have to have a bad experience to change a well-established routine.

Most of us are illogical in different areas - for example, I would NEVER ride without a hat, but sometimes ride my bike in London traffic without a cycling helmet, don't eat my 5 a day, am a "social" smoker etc –*I think its just down to what risks you feel are worth taking - usually because they don't seem to relate to you. I suppose to me, wearing a hat whilst riding seems like a very small price to pay for the risks involved - but I can see that others might see it differently. It is all about risk assessement and priorities.

I am really glad of the recent trend in pro's and "divas" being more prone to wearing hats. Maybe one day it will permeate the public consciousness, like wearing a seatbelt whilst driving has! (Then we all just need to stop drinking, make sure we are careful when crossing the road, and chose parents with medically suitable genetics...)