Prognosis - when poor comes good

[Wagtail]

I have two horses, one of which received a very poor prognosis for even coming field sound, yet three years later I am able to ride her and she feels better than ever. My gelding, on the other hand, received a good prognosis for returning to full athletic soundness, and he has not come right. So just how reliable are vet's prognosis? Do you have any stories of hopeless cases coming right, or straight forward cases not coming back? Or do you feel that on the whole, vets' prognosis is very reliable?

 

[Bikerchickone]

I'm not sure my experience is quite what you're looking for, however, my lad was diagnosed with navicular and collateral ligament damage in January this year, vet wanted to do remedial shoeing and medicate the joint every three months, and even then suggested that after a year turned away he might only come sound for light hacking. I didn't like the idea so we went barefoot and I now have a totally sound in full work horse. If I'd listened to my vet (who was admittedly only doing the best he knew how to do) I doubt I'd be able to ride my lad now.

My friend has a young horse with bone cysts that her vet thought would come back into work after various different treatments, and unfortunately her youngster is still turned out as she still goes lame every time she is worked.

 

[dressagecrazy]

My WB recieved a very poor prognosis after an MRI. We where told he may not even come sound enough to be a field ornament. This was in 2010.
He's been sound now since April 2011 & has been back out training & competing this year culminating in winning his 2nd competition with a 65+% score at Medium.
He's going out at Adv Med in 2013 & the sky's the limit really now. I still worry about the old injury but as the year progressed ive got over it more & more.

 

[Wagtail]

I'm not sure my experience is quite what you're looking for, however, my lad was diagnosed with navicular and collateral ligament damage in January this year, vet wanted to do remedial shoeing and medicate the joint every three months, and even then suggested that after a year turned away he might only come sound for light hacking. I didn't like the idea so we went barefoot and I now have a totally sound in full work horse. If I'd listened to my vet (who was admittedly only doing the best he knew how to do) I doubt I'd be able to ride my lad now.

My friend has a young horse with bone cysts that her vet thought would come back into work after various different treatments, and unfortunately her youngster is still turned out as she still goes lame every time she is worked.

So pleased to hear about your horse. Navicular is one condition where more and more evidence seems to point towards the barefoot treatment, yet vets still want to treat with remedial shoeing. I wonder if things will change, and whether vets will learn about the benefits of barefoot as part of their course, just as they do remedial farriery. Did you let the vet know about your success?

I just spoke to the vet today (at Rossdales) who treated my mare, and she is amazed she has come sound. However, I did not intend to bring her back into work as the prognosis was so poor, so she has had more time than she probably would have, had I thought she would return to work. It has been three years. That is time that many people cannot, or are not prepared to give.

I also wonder how many people feed back to the specialist vets. I thought it was important to let her know for future reference. It must be useful information to have, I would think.

 

[0310Star]

My mare had a very bad prognosis in January this year. Went lame and a workup/xrays etc revealed ringbone, side bones & DJD on RF. Vet said she would be a light happy hacker at most, no school work, no longer than 3 hours a week ridden work to stay sound.
Went against advice, which vet agreed to go with my view on and now have a totally sound horse in full work INCLUDING schooling. In fact we are at our first dressage comp next week!
Went for follow up at end of September, found startings of navilcular in LF by chance as because we are insured the vet said it was worth checking the other leg. and still totally sound!
Vet even said we could return to full work and is still to this day totally gobsmacked by her progress

But I also know of a horse that has similar problems to my mare, although a lot less progressed/severe, the horse isn't even field sound

I think a lot of it is how the individual horse copes with it.

 

[Wagtail]

My mare had a very bad prognosis in January this year. Went lame and a workup/xrays etc revealed ringbone, side bones & DJD on RF. Vet said she would be a light happy hacker at most, no school work, no longer than 3 hours a week ridden work to stay sound.
Went against advice, which vet agreed to go with my view on and now have a totally sound horse in full work INCLUDING schooling. In fact we are at our first dressage comp next week!
Went for follow up at end of September, found startings of navilcular in LF by chance as because we are insured the vet said it was worth checking the other leg. and still totally sound!
Vet even said we could return to full work and is still to this day totally gobsmacked by her progress

But I also know of a horse that has similar problems to my mare, although a lot less progressed/severe, the horse isn't even field sound

I think a lot of it is how the individual horse copes with it.

What did you do to get your mare sound? Was it just keeping her in work that did it or did you go barefoot or something?

Great to hear of all these hopeless cases coming right.

 

[0310Star]

also should have said my mare is barefoot, vet wanted remedial shoeing but was something myself andf my farrier disagreed with

 

[Holly Hocks]

Mine was diagnosed with navicular, spavin, PSLD and arthritis of the fetlock in October 2011 at Vet hospital after scintigraphy scan of whole body and other lameness investigations. I was told that she was likely just to be a companion and that the prognosis was "guarded". Gave her six months off, brought her very slowly back into work and she came sound - although I did only hack her out lightly - didn't do anything strenuous. However she is now just started on another 3 month break after being diagnosed with a pedal bone injury where a trauma has resulted in the pedal bone starting to do some remodelling. The prognosis for this is good, providing she has sufficient rest, however we have to wait and see really - there is no absolute guarantee of soundness. I will give her as long as she wants - if it takes 3 months, great, if it takes a year or more that's fine too.

 

[0310Star]

What did you do to get your mare sound? Was it just keeping her in work that did it or did you go barefoot or something?

Great to hear of all these hopeless cases coming right.

Funnily enough she went barefoot just before the problems started. I honestly think the shoes were hiding the problems and we were none the wiser until she could properly feel her feet again.
She had cortisone in January and is on a glucoasmine supplement daily since then. Started on bute and I still give her half a sachet a day which tbh wont be doing a lot seeing as she is a 16.3 well built tb, Its more for my benefit I think first of all vet said light work but it soon came aparent that my horse wasn't the light work type! She became unmanageable and tbh a bit dangerous. That is when I decided to bring her back in to work and as it was the fitter she is the better she looks and feels. and she was my beautiful sane horse once again, 100x happier!
When we went for the follow up in September we decided to medicate with Tildren, with all of her problems going on she was the ideal candidate! 4 days later she was like a new horse now she loves work, and the more work the better! I thought this cold weather would be when we noticed the full extent of her problems, to be honest she hasn't once come out of her stable stiff!

 

[Wagtail]

Mine was diagnosed with navicular, spavin, PSLD and arthritis of the fetlock in October 2011 at Vet hospital after scintigraphy scan of whole body and other lameness investigations. I was told that she was likely just to be a companion and that the prognosis was "guarded". Gave her six months off, brought her very slowly back into work and she came sound - although I did only hack her out lightly - didn't do anything strenuous. However she is now just started on another 3 month break after being diagnosed with a pedal bone injury where a trauma has resulted in the pedal bone starting to do some remodelling. The prognosis for this is good, providing she has sufficient rest, however we have to wait and see really - there is no absolute guarantee of soundness. I will give her as long as she wants - if it takes 3 months, great, if it takes a year or more that's fine too.

Your poor mare sounds very similar to my girl. One thing after another! But they are both fighters. I am sure your girl will come right again.

 

[Wagtail]

Funnily enough she went barefoot just before the problems started. I honestly think the shoes were hiding the problems and we were none the wiser until she could properly feel her feet again.
She had cortisone in January and is on a glucoasmine supplement daily since then. Started on bute and I still give her half a sachet a day which tbh wont be doing a lot seeing as she is a 16.3 well built tb, Its more for my benefit I think first of all vet said light work but it soon came aparent that my horse wasn't the light work type! She became unmanageable and tbh a bit dangerous. That is when I decided to bring her back in to work and as it was the fitter she is the better she looks and feels. and she was my beautiful sane horse once again, 100x happier!
When we went for the follow up in September we decided to medicate with Tildren, with all of her problems going on she was the ideal candidate! 4 days later she was like a new horse now she loves work, and the more work the better! I thought this cold weather would be when we noticed the full extent of her problems, to be honest she hasn't once come out of her stable stiff!

That's amazing, with all her problems. I am hoping that tildren works for a gelding at my yard. He too went fabulously four days after treatment, but then the next week he was bad again. Very strange.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Your poor mare sounds very similar to my girl. One thing after another! But they are both fighters. I am sure your girl will come right again.

Hopefully - and then she can find another injury to obtain! I also took her barefoot on the navicular diagnosis and at the x-rays this week to find out the cause of the current lameness, the navicular bone looks really good according to the vet - it gave her no cause for concern...

 

[0310Star]

That's amazing, with all her problems. I am hoping that tildren works for a gelding at my yard. He too went fabulously four days after treatment, but then the next week he was bad again. Very strange.

From what I have been told, Tildren can take longer to work in some horses so dont dismiss it just yet. My vet said that work is the key when medicated with Tildren and so she was worked the day after and there on.
But personally, my mare has done amazingly on it. The thing is, it is so expensive I think that is why there isn't loads of stories on it!
But even little things like having rubber matting made a huge difference to my horse. I built her up VERY slowly, walking only for months and months and we still aren't even onto canter just yet as I am trying to build up her schooling muscles as slowly as possible so she doesn't get uncomfortable. I also do things like bandage when ridden in the school and booted out hacking to try and keep her legs a little warmer, and longer warm up/cool down than normal.

I think the little things make quite a big difference to be honest! But good luck with the horse on your yard who has had the Tildren!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I have 2 horses that were deemed 50/50 to be field ornaments after tendon injuries.

The first one put a 60%hole (including sheath) in his off hind ddft going through the fetlock. 8 months of strict box rest, 3months gradual walking and then turnout for 3months and he is 100% sound and to scan it would suggest that there was only ever a 10% hole there in the first place due to the rebuilding of tendon fibres and not scar tissue.

The other one did a complete rupture of his sdft and yes his leg is bananary in shape but it's 50/50 tendon/sxar tissue and he is now a show horse that does minor jumping.

I'm careful with both of them with regards to what ground and surface I work them on but otherwise they are normal horses to an extent.

 

[Wagtail]

I have 2 horses that were deemed 50/50 to be field ornaments after tendon injuries.

The first one put a 60%hole (including sheath) in his off hind ddft going through the fetlock. 8 months of strict box rest, 3months gradual walking and then turnout for 3months and he is 100% sound and to scan it would suggest that there was only ever a 10% hole there in the first place due to the rebuilding of tendon fibres and not scar tissue.

The other one did a complete rupture of his sdft and yes his leg is bananary in shape but it's 50/50 tendon/sxar tissue and he is now a show horse that does minor jumping.

I'm careful with both of them with regards to what ground and surface I work them on but otherwise they are normal horses to an extent.

Good news. It does take a lot of patience and time with tendon injuries. My mare did her bicceps brachii tendon, a very rare injury and one with a very poor prognosis. I remember at the time the vet saying how unstable the shoulder was, how it could just collapse at any moment. I still have that at the back of my mind when I work her. I would never jump or gallop her for this reason.

 

[dressagecrazy]

Wow nice to be ignored when replying to threads happens a lot these days on here
My boy was also taken BF & i rehabbed him myself, his injury was severe damage to the Impar ligament which had Adhered it's self to the DDFT. Barefoot was the only option left that may work as no treatment other than a steroid injection to the Navic Bursa could be offered.

 

[zaminda]

My mare put such a large hole in her tendon that rossdale's reckoned she would never be able to stand up to trot work. 6 months later a had a second opinion, and brought her back into walk work. It took 18 months or just over, and I got her going again. I never thought she would be able to do much, but she has completed endurance race rides, and showjumped, and been xc. However she seems to have a VERY high pain tolerance. I am still trying with my other mare, who was bought as a replacement, as she has been the most accident prone and unlucky mare. Currently battling hind suspensory ligaments problems with her, still a poor prognosis, but sound in light work, which is a start.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Wow nice to be ignored when replying to threads happens a lot these days on here
My boy was also taken BF & i rehabbed him myself, his injury was severe damage to the Impar ligament which had Adhered it's self to the DDFT. Barefoot was the only option left that may work as no treatment other than a steroid injection to the Navic Bursa could be offered.

LOL!! I won't ignore you then - it sounds like you've done fantastic with your boy. Did you take the shoes off with the vet's approval or were they totally against it? I know what you mean about always worrying about previously injuries - I spent the whole summer hacking out, feeling every stride, and one stride which didnt feel 100% resulted in me panicking that the suspensory ligament was damaged again!

 

[Wagtail]

Wow nice to be ignored when replying to threads happens a lot these days on here

Sorry DC! I didn't see your post as you posted the same time as me.

My WB recieved a very poor prognosis after an MRI. We where told he may not even come sound enough to be a field ornament. This was in 2010.
He's been sound now since April 2011 & has been back out training & competing this year culminating in winning his 2nd competition with a 65+% score at Medium.
He's going out at Adv Med in 2013 & the sky's the limit really now. I still worry about the old injury but as the year progressed ive got over it more & more.

My boy was also taken BF & i rehabbed him myself, his injury was severe damage to the Impar ligament which had Adhered it's self to the DDFT. Barefoot was the only option left that may work as no treatment other than a steroid injection to the Navic Bursa could be offered.

That is an amazing recovery to have him back competing at that level. I would be pleased if my mare could even compete at Prelim again (used to compete ad med), so you must be over the moon.

 

[Wagtail]

My mare put such a large hole in her tendon that rossdale's reckoned she would never be able to stand up to trot work. 6 months later a had a second opinion, and brought her back into walk work. It took 18 months or just over, and I got her going again. I never thought she would be able to do much, but she has completed endurance race rides, and showjumped, and been xc. However she seems to have a VERY high pain tolerance. I am still trying with my other mare, who was bought as a replacement, as she has been the most accident prone and unlucky mare. Currently battling hind suspensory ligaments problems with her, still a poor prognosis, but sound in light work, which is a start.

Blimey, you sound as though you have as much luck as me. My boy was bought as a replacement for my mare. I even sold her saddle to help pay for all his various vet bills. He ended up having an operation for a kick to the hock and then one for kissing spines. I have probably only ridden him a total of 15 times in the three years I have owned him. Ironic that it is our old mares that have come back sound. My mare also has an incredibly high pain threshold. Maybe that's the key. I hope your girl continues to go well.

 

[zaminda]

Thanks Wagtail, she banged herself the other day, in boots, and has a large lump. Any other horse would still be lame, but she is sound already! However she has 3 weeks off now as I have just had surgery!
My partners mare is just the same, has hideous looking legs, and is remarkably sound as well! Post KS, and multiple injuries. Between us at one point we had 6 field ornaments!

 

[Sarah_K]

We've had one of each. My sister's competition horse was shod and then lame ns fore the next day. Was a slight nail bind, farrier came back and took the shoes off. Lameness didn't resolve and she ended up with stress laminitis in her os fore. Despite excellent veterinary and farrier care (different farrier to the one who did the shoeing) she was pts 2 weeks later as the laminae in her os fore hoof had started to break down all the way round and was squelching. Was a total shock.

My first proper pony (after shetlands) was passed on to my sister after we'd had her for 2 years. She started to be very lethargic and not enjoying herself doing anything. Got one vet out who said it was her age- she was about 13- and we should consider pts! Wouldn't do any tests. Got another vet who did a blood test and found she had chronic liver disease. The vet reckoned if we could keep her going, it might sort itself out but she'd probably no make it. She had 6 months of daily vitamin and antibiotic injections. Can't remember all the ins and outs as I was 14 when this all happened. We've still got her now. She's about 40 and was diagnosed with Cushings earlier this year. Doing well on Prascend, infact maybe a bit too well as she's a total handful and full of beans! Hopefully we'll get back to mooching round the lanes in the spring if I can control her, might have to dig out a bridle rather than the headcollar. (She's the chestnut in my sig- 2nd pic)

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks Wagtail, she banged herself the other day, in boots, and has a large lump. Any other horse would still be lame, but she is sound already! However she has 3 weeks off now as I have just had surgery!
My partners mare is just the same, has hideous looking legs, and is remarkably sound as well! Post KS, and multiple injuries. Between us at one point we had 6 field ornaments!

Well they are lucky horses to have people who are prepared to nurse them through everything.

 

[Wagtail]

We've had one of each. My sister's competition horse was shod and then lame ns fore the next day. Was a slight nail bind, farrier came back and took the shoes off. Lameness didn't resolve and she ended up with stress laminitis in her os fore. Despite excellent veterinary and farrier care (different farrier to the one who did the shoeing) she was pts 2 weeks later as the laminae in her os fore hoof had started to break down all the way round and was squelching. Was a total shock.

OMG, that is awful! Absolutely shocking. Poor mare.

My first proper pony (after shetlands) was passed on to my sister after we'd had her for 2 years. She started to be very lethargic and not enjoying herself doing anything. Got one vet out who said it was her age- she was about 13- and we should consider pts! Wouldn't do any tests. Got another vet who did a blood test and found she had chronic liver disease. The vet reckoned if we could keep her going, it might sort itself out but she'd probably no make it. She had 6 months of daily vitamin and antibiotic injections. Can't remember all the ins and outs as I was 14 when this all happened. We've still got her now. She's about 40 and was diagnosed with Cushings earlier this year. Doing well on Prascend, infact maybe a bit too well as she's a total handful and full of beans! Hopefully we'll get back to mooching round the lanes in the spring if I can control her, might have to dig out a bridle rather than the headcollar. (She's the chestnut in my sig- 2nd pic)

Aw, that is just amazing, bless her.