Progression in eventing!

_MizElz_

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Please could someone explain to me the typical route of progression through the different levels of eventing? ie. how do you go from the lowest level (which I believe is 80T?) through to competing at Badminton, Burghley etc? And what kinds of restrictions are there on the horses who can compete at each level? Does it operate on a points system similar to the notional money earned at BSJA? If you are an amateur rider on a horse who has been there, done it etc, what effect does that have on the route you take and what you can enter?

Many thanks :)
 
Suspect nobody's answered this because it's so blimmin complicated.
I think up to Novice you just move up when you feel ready and then a points system kicks in. After that I think minimum dressage levels + minimum faults SJ/XC and as for FEI (1*, 2* etc) don't ask! Badminton/Burghley are 4* though, so you do need to understand the FEI qualifications unfortunately.
Best of luck :D
 
it's all in the BE rules, available to download from the website, but briefly:
afaik an adult can start at Novice, younger riders must start at lower levels. 4 qualifying runs at Novice = qualified (albeit not necessarily competent and ready) to run at Intermediate, ditto 4 quals at Int -> Adv one days.
Quals at 1-days lead to CICs and CCIs, good progression up the levels in those leads to 4*.
some few years ago Vere Phillipps inherited his wife's top 4 star horse and, although he'd never evented, he was a v experienced sjer and xc rider (years of hunting, producing young horses etc.) He did the most meteoric rise to 4*, successfully, that has ever been seen afaik. iirc he evented 1 other horse to get his N quals, then did all the rest on Coral Cove. so, it can be done very fast IF the horse is very experienced and the rider is a very competent jockey...
hope that helps.
 
Didn't they bring in a new rule last season that over 18's now have to have a decent BE100 run before they can go Novice? Or did I make that up???????
 
Aha, thank you both!

Being showjumping born and bred, I understand that system quite well, but BE is a mind boggler to me. I'm not asking because of any competitive aspirations - I'm actually carrying out some research for my writing! Can't abide people writing stuff without it being factually accurate :p

Kerilli - I'm glad you mentioned Vere Phillips because I've often wondered how he managed to achieve what he did - and that will actually be crucial for me with what I am planning to write!

Thank you both, very helpful :) x
 
Also, more experienced horses can be downgraded to run at certain levels with certain riders but may have to run HC below that level.

There are also lower age limits for horses, both national and FEI, although they're very generous - I believe 1* horses have to be in their 6 yr old year - so rarely come into play for the average horse and rider.

As far as how individuals progress, technically horses can go straight in at Novice, although even professionally produced horses now often do at least a few PNs. Then they can move up as and when they're qualified, although just because a horse has met its qualifications doesn't mean it's ready to step up.
 
ah, forgot about this last night, now it's even more difficult to get runs at Badminton and Burghley (easier at the other 4*s afaik as they not usually oversubscribed). B & B now take FEI points into account, so just being qualified isn't enough, you have to have won enough FEI points (only awarded at CICs and CCIs I believe) to get to run.
 
Sorry to bring this up again - thank you all for your comments!

I now need to know.....if a horse and rider combination have qualified for Badminton, but the rider becomes injured and cannot compete, could another rider, having ridden at that level before but not having competed for a couple of years, take over the ride? Or do horse and rider combination have to qualify together?

Many thanks guys :)
 
I'm 99% sure a combination have to have had a minimum of runs together, last minute 'catch rides' such as Toddy on The Irishman & on Horton Point wouldn't be allowed nowadays. I don't think they have to have qual'd together (e.g. at 3*, for Badders) but they can't be a brand new combination...
 
I'm 99% sure a combination have to have had a minimum of runs together, last minute 'catch rides' such as Toddy on The Irishman & on Horton Point wouldn't be allowed nowadays. I don't think they have to have qual'd together (e.g. at 3*, for Badders) but they can't be a brand new combination...

Ok, so supposing said combination had competed together at that level in 2006, but then the horse had been sold on and qualified for Badders with another rider in 2008, only for that rider to be injured and wish to pass the ride back to the original rider.....would that be allowed?

So, so sorry for the questions - and thank you for taking the time to answer them! :)
 
Going back to Vere Phillips and Coral Cove: Was it not his amazing route from Novice to Burghley that made BE tighten the qualifications for upgrading? Pretty sure that it would be virtually impossible to do the same now, in such a short timeframe.
 
Ok, so supposing said combination had competed together at that level in 2006, but then the horse had been sold on and qualified for Badders with another rider in 2008, only for that rider to be injured and wish to pass the ride back to the original rider.....would that be allowed?

So, so sorry for the questions - and thank you for taking the time to answer them! :)

The qualifications have to be gained within a certain period of time (sorry, can't remember what it is off the top of my head), so technically, if the horse changed hands and then back again during that period the first combination would still be qualified.

For the purposes of fiction ;), it might actually be easier to look at someone getting to the Olympics as it's actually less difficult to do that, particularly if you're not from an eventing "power", than to get into B and B. I actually know someone who took her grandparents' citizenship and rode as an individual when it became evident she wouldn't get on the national team. Not sure if they've tightened that up now but she obviously did meet the qualifying criteria and her "second" country was happy enough to put her forward so off she went. It wasn't a disaster, either. I can't remember where she finished but she certainly got around and it was definitely the trip of a lifetime as she's not had another horse close to that level again.
 
does someone want to answer my question... :D .... i know that 1* is international novice and 2* intermediate.. but what about 3 and 4 * ?
also, what are the heights of novice, intermediate and advanced? thanks :D
 
does someone want to answer my question... :D .... i know that 1* is international novice and 2* intermediate.. but what about 3 and 4 * ?
also, what are the heights of novice, intermediate and advanced? thanks :D

3* is about equivalent to an Advanced... a CIC*** track is usually an Advanced track with perhaps a couple of extra combinations, while a CCI*** is perhaps a little bigger and more complicated. a CCI**** is bigger and more complicated than Advanced.
xc fence heights (sj are slightly bigger, or at least 2 fences are allowed to be), measured from where the average horse would take off:
Nov - maximum of 3'7"
Int - max of 3'9"
Adv - max of 3'11"
but obv taking into account undulations, positioning of fences etc, so an Advanced fence might be Novice dimensions.
Brush is allowed to be quite a bit higher.
the widths at Int and Adv get pretty significant too...
hope that helps.
 
I'm 99% sure a combination have to have had a minimum of runs together, last minute 'catch rides' such as Toddy on The Irishman & on Horton Point wouldn't be allowed nowadays. I don't think they have to have qual'd together (e.g. at 3*, for Badders) but they can't be a brand new combination...

As far as I know, a catch ride like this would be permissable subject to certain provisios. If you acheive 5 qualifying results at either 3 or 4 star level then you are qualified to ride at that level for life. Consequently the likes of Mark Todd could compete a horse at Badminton that he had never competed before as long as the horse had been qualified for a 4 star by someone else as long as he met the other entry requirements!
 
As far as I know, a catch ride like this would be permissable subject to certain provisios. If you acheive 5 qualifying results at either 3 or 4 star level then you are qualified to ride at that level for life. Consequently the likes of Mark Todd could compete a horse at Badminton that he had never competed before as long as the horse had been qualified for a 4 star by someone else as long as he met the other entry requirements!

Aha - that's what I was hoping to discover! Thank you SO much to everyone for your help here. I think I will probably drop BE an email to see if they can answer for definite, but you guys have clarified an awful lot for me! :)
 
it's in the FEI rules bit on here:http://www.britisheventing.com/documents.asp?section=145&sectionTitle=Download+Area

looks as if the rule is that as long as horse and rider are both qualified for that level (and quals last for the year when they were obtained + 2 calendar years), they can go straight to a big 4* together...
i'm sure this rule was changed yonks ago, looks as though it's been changed back, although i can't recall any catch rides at that level in this country... i think Phillip Dutton had 1 at Rolex Kentucky last year though come to think of it, there was a long hold on the course because of a fall and PD was on a catch ride, and rang the owner (and usual rider) while he waited, and they decided between them that he should retire. so, that was a recent example of a new combination at a 4* afaik.
 
I would def check it though, as I read something recently about how it would not be possible for someone to reproduce those 4* catch rides Mark (and a few other people - Lorna Clark and King's Jester comes to mind and didn't Ian Stark have one or was it one of his horses . . ?) did in the past. I don't know if that's because of a rule or because of the way they screen entries now, though.
 
it's in the FEI rules bit on here:http://www.britisheventing.com/documents.asp?section=145&sectionTitle=Download+Area

looks as if the rule is that as long as horse and rider are both qualified for that level (and quals last for the year when they were obtained + 2 calendar years), they can go straight to a big 4* together...

Thats my understanding of the rules too - the only exceptions to this being championships. If a class is classified as a championship (i.e. has CH in the title) then the combination have to gain qualifying results as a combination.
 
Thats my understanding of the rules too - the only exceptions to this being championships. If a class is classified as a championship (i.e. has CH in the title) then the combination have to gain qualifying results as a combination.

i think TS is right though, one of the commentators did say that last-minute catch rides weren't allowed any more... could have been Mike Tucker though, he doesn't always get everything right! ;) ;)
 
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