Progressive behaviour changes

4leggedfurries

4leggedfurries

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Nearly 4 years ago I bought a sweet, loving horse that you could do anything with, ride any where and he was a dream to handle. Over time his riding became difficult going from the ocassional minor spook to having a heart attack over the smallest thing and on several ocassions breaking my bones (badly at times) because of his unpredictabilty. Unfortunately at the begining of the year I had to retire him as he was dangerously unpredictable to ride any more.

Now over the last 18 months getting on for two years his behaviour in the field and stable has been getting worse also, to the point where he is fast becoming a nightmare to handle. He never used to be clingy to horses, you were able to leave him in or out on his own all day no problem, to not even being able to bring him on the yard by himself with out a major hissy fit. He throws himself around the stable, box walks, headshakes and has a major tantrum. He's a nightmare to catch (I used to be able to lead him just by holding his chin, and he would drop everything and be at the gate waiting for you as soon as he heard your voice/car) to which last night he had to stay out on his own because I couldnt catch him at all.

I had the vet out to him a couple of weeks ago who gave him a full work up but couldnt find anything wrong. He put him on a course of pain killers to see if that would help. It didnt and put him off his food so I have now had to buy different food for him. I have had all the necessary checks done over the years, back, teeth, saddle etc and have yet to find a problem with those. I've had several different instructors over the years too but again we have not been able to sort his issues.

I am now at my wits end as I just dont know what else to do. Do I push for him to be investigated further? Or do I just leave be? My only concern is the way he's deteriorating mentally (physically he is in good shape) he is soon to cause injury to himself or someone.

He is 14.

Has anyone else had problems like this? What did you do and what was the end result? Any advise on any other options would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the essay!
 
Has hearing and eyesight been checked? Sounds like this horse is screaming that he has a problem. Pain killers won't deal with insecurity caused by loss of hearing or sight. Also sorry to say this but has brain tumour been considered? Not sure leaving him alone is an option if he is this unhappy and dangerous?
 
Eyesight and hearing have been checked at yearly jab time. They were also thoroughly checked when the vet came out a couple of weeks ago. The vet tried him on a course of painkillers to see if there was low level contiuous pain that was causing his behaviour changes as he couldnt find anything physically wrong at the time of the work up. He also ruled out a brain tumor as he showed no symptoms of one. I personally have though for a very long time that he has problems with his eyes (he sees things that simply arent there and that other horses dont see) or brain (he's always been a bit 'special') or both. I'm at my wits end as no one seems to believe me when I say something is wrong, but he has no classic symptoms... And no, leaving him is the last thing I want to do but I just dont know what else to do...
 
So sorry to hear you are having problems with your horse.
I hate to say it but I agree it could be a brain tumor.
I had a similar problem with my first TB. I got him aged 3. 11 years later over the course of 6 months his personality and behaviour changed dramatically. He started running at people and other horses, trying to kick and savage them. He became a nightmare and basically almost impossible to handle. He went from being very placid to one seemingly possessed by demons. It was incredibly frightening and upsetting to witness. He became so vicious and unpredictable that I was beside myself.
My vet tested him for absolutely everything and could find nothing. Eventually he came to the conclusion that he was more than likely suffering from a brain tumor as his change in behaviour dictated this was more than likely the cause. Having re told the story to other vets in passing over the years they have all agreed with the original vet's diagnosis that they too would have said the behaviour change was caused by a tumor.
Please know I have my fingers crossed and am sending good vibes your way to you and your neddy and that he is better again very soon.
Xxx
 
I hate to say it (as I dont want to worry or upset you) but I made the very difficult decision to PTS. Bear in mind this was 20 years ago and the vet gave me no other option as there were no other treatments available to me then. It had to be done as not only was my lovely Tommy a danger to other horses in the field, but he tried to savage a couple of young girls at my livery and was also very much a danger to himself as he would launch himself at the electric fences, barbed wire fencing, trees, whatever and was always injuring himself as a result. I did not want to arrive to find him ripped to pieces caught in a fence so it was the kindest thing I could do for him.
I'm sure that now days there would be other options and of course your horse's behaviour might not be due to a tumor but perhaps (and I hope for you and your boy) it could be something else.
If the same happened to me today (being older, wiser and in a better financial position) then I would be getting second and third opinions.
Make sure you explore every avenue and don't give up.
Good luck and please keep us updated on how everything goes.
 
PTS has and is being considered. At the end of the day he cant be a danger and I know he is a horse that doesnt cope well. Ultimately I do believe, whether I find the cause or not, it will be sooner rather than later he will be PTS. It has already caused many sleeples nights and many a tear shed. I just want to find something so that I dont feel I'm putting him down for no reason. I will push the vet to refer him and use up to my limit, but I know how this will end :(
 
Have you considered ulcers and or dietary issues? Magnesium deficiency for eg can have a dramatic affect on behaviour as can sugar intolerance.

May I suggest you treat him as a laminitic for a month feeding soaked hay Here's a diet to follow initially http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Emergency_Diet.pdf but I'd add yea-sacc to it. See if this causes any changes to him... just a thought.
 
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Sorry to hear about your boy.

I'd also take a look at the dietary side of things. Nothing to lose by doing so, and considerably cheaper than endless vet visits, and might be equally applicable.

Can you have the grass/hay/haylage analysed (Forageplus do analysis and will also interpret it for you)? It might highlight any particular deficiencies or excesses which may possibly be contributing?

The other thing I'm hugely in favour of is having a comprehensive blood test done, to include muscle enzymes, and asking for a copy of the complete report. For me, the blood results have shown up things that just weren't apparent enough to vets when they just saw my horses move. Again, on the grand scale of things, it's relatively cheap to do, and might just help narrow down what's going on.

However, I totally agree that we all need to be very careful with horses who are becoming aggressive, and make sure that we put our own safety (and the safety of others) first. If you can't find a cause and your horse is truly dangerous, then it's just not worth waiting for someone to be seriously injured before making that final call. I speak from experience on that one, tough as it may be.

Well worth keeping a daily diary of weather, feed, turnout, behaviour etc and seeing whether you spot any patterns which might help pinpoint what's going on.

Hope you manage to get to the bottom of things.

Sarah
 
Getting a second opinion is a great step. Hope something useful comes from it.
As has already been said, take care and stay safe.
 
Yes diet came to my mind, particularly magnesium deficiency. I saw a mild mannered horse turn into a demon because a silly yard worker thought he didn't need his mg supplement anymore - much to his owners disgust when she found out (by his change in behaviour).
Did this all begin at a particular point in time, i.e. when you moved to this present place? Is this land particularly wet and waterlogged as mg is leached out of the soil in these conditions?
Unfortunately, horses are much too big and strong to be out of control. I feel for you seeing your boy deteriorate. IMO there is something wrong physically or diet related and he's not just getting bad tempered for no good reason.
If you can't improve this decline soon, I don't envy you your next move.
Good luck in your search.
 
Common things are the most common. I'd leave brain tumours and such way down the list for now and instead take a very long, very hard, very ruthless look at your horse's life from a horse's point of view. What are the key things that a horse needs to feel safe and happy? Is your horse getting them? Be honest. Don't think it through from YOUR point of view but from his. My feeling is his only life now is the other horses he's turned out with. You take him away from them and he panics. A horse that is in panic mode most of the time will be living 24/7 full of adrenalin, the fight or flight hormone. He'll eventually get dangerous first and ill second.
 
muff747 said:
Did this all begin at a particular point in time, i.e. when you moved to this present place? Is this land particularly wet and waterlogged as mg is leached out of the soil in these conditions?
Click to expand...

Me and my parents have looked back but cant see a particular time it 'started'. He's always been kooky and a bit special about things, and its slowly got worse over time to the point where we are at. Actually yes my fields can get very wet, we have thick heavy clay underneath so when it rain heavy the water has no where to go.

Pale Rider said:
If thats him in the photo, I'd be looking at his diet from a sugar intolerance point of view through to insulin resistance.

Good luck.
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No, thats not the one in question, thats one of my others and he is currently on a lami programme anyways, he's terrible in that he ballons just looking at grass but he is doing well at the moment.

Box_Of_Frogs said:
Be honest. Don't think it through from YOUR point of view but from his. My feeling is his only life now is the other horses he's turned out with. You take him away from them and he panics. A horse that is in panic mode most of the time will be living 24/7 full of adrenalin, the fight or flight hormone. He'll eventually get dangerous first and ill second.
Click to expand...

The only other horses he's turned out with are my two natives and they are on my own fields and not a yard. Unfortunately I cannot turn him out with the two little ones any more as he terrorises the pony in the photo, so has to be on the other side of the electric fence. He can still touch and see them just cant attack him. Again I dont understand why he started that as they used to get on so well. When one comes in they tend to all come in at the same time but now even for 30 seconds on his own he goes mental. This is a horse that in the begining you could leave in/out all by himself all day/night and he wouldnt bat an eye lid, but from last summer all of a sudden when tonto if you took him away...
 
4leggedfurries said:
Me and my parents have looked back but cant see a particular time it 'started'. He's always been kooky and a bit special about things, and its slowly got worse over time to the point where we are at. Actually yes my fields can get very wet, we have thick heavy clay underneath so when it rain heavy the water has no where to go.
Click to expand...

An excess of sugar from spring grass can prompt a dificiency in Mg as well as wet fields. Perhaps try a calmer which contains magnesium then, or you can buy straight magnesium, Calmag or Magox, depends how good he is at eating supplements. Or ask your vet to do a full blood analysis to find out if there are any deficiencies.
 
Maybe your boy is missing somebody or something from his previous life?
Did you contact the first owner to try to figure that out?
AG
Ps I don't know anything about horse, but I love them. Thirty years ago, I have had a live changing experiment with them.
 
I am one of the last people to suggest PTS. But ask yourself this question: Is your horse enjoying his life? If the answer is no, and you cannot find any obvious problems that can be resolved, then I would PTS. I do think his behaviour could be pain related. My own troubled gelding became dangerous to ride, and handle. He would jump out of his skin at absolutely anything. He was found to have terrible kissing spines. I had him operated on and he is a changed horse to handle. Sadly, I have still been unable to ride him, though I am working on it!
 
I cannot disagree with much that has been written as to suggestion but one that has not been mentioned is that it could be over the years he has got away with many little things and then gradually taken charge.

When he started to spook at little things, what did you do to correct this misbehaviour?
What do you do when he is barging about and throwing a tantrum in the stable?

Animals that do not have firm, fair and consistent training will become nightmares to handle. They will also be miserable because the responsibility of leadership is on their shoulders.

Just a thought.
 
I'd probably gonna get shot for this, but why don't you try an animal communicator?
Iv used Lesley Anderson and I think she's very good
http://www.lesleyanderson.com/
That's her website, all u have to do is take a pic if u and your boy and pay £20 email it to her and u will get a reading within a week.

I was very sceptical but she told me things about me and my boy that no one knew.
Plus what have u got to lose!
 
Check this website out! I have just come across it while looking for causes for our very spooky, unpredictable pony. My mare is also behaving strangely and have realised they are on a field of clover which is also clay soil. It appears they could have high levels of potassium which means sodium, magnesium and calcium levels are low.
http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/solut/salt.html
I have started feeding mine salt tonight and am trying to get hold of some GrazeEy but can only find it in New Zealand.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I cannot disagree with much that has been written as to suggestion but one that has not been mentioned is that it could be over the years he has got away with many little things and then gradually taken charge.

When he started to spook at little things, what did you do to correct this misbehaviour?
What do you do when he is barging about and throwing a tantrum in the stable?

Animals that do not have firm, fair and consistent training will become nightmares to handle. They will also be miserable because the responsibility of leadership is on their shoulders.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I've always been firm but fair with his handling and behaviour (at half a ton I can afford for him to be knocking me around with my bad joints). When he has spooked I have not let him run off. He was made to stand and calm down before attempting to go past what ever the spook was. If he wouldnt with me on his back I would get off lead him past (show him that it was safe and not going to eat him) then get back on before making him go past again with me on his back. We got over many hurdles like this eg, wouldnt go under or over bridges and wouldnt go past road signs. When he is throwing a tantrum in the stable, he is ignored until he calms down, once he has then and only then does he get attention. I dont reward bad behaviour.

Admittedly, since I originally posted this, I have made several changes to feeding/routine etc and he has chilled out somewhat, but he can still be unpredictable and I'm still not happy to try riding him. Shame as he was wonderful to ride!
 
GAUDWIN said:
Maybe your boy is missing somebody or something from his previous life?
Did you contact the first owner to try to figure that out?
AG
Ps I don't know anything about horse, but I love them. Thirty years ago, I have had a live changing experiment with them.
Click to expand...

Perhaps but before he came to me he had been passed from pillar to post for about 4 years so had never really settled anywhere for too long. I did manage to contact all but his first owner but nobody had any problems with him, but the last 3 homes he wasnt there for much longer than a year each time.

When he walked off the lorry at my place, you would have thought he'd been there all his life and had just gone out for the day. Everyone who has ever met him has said he's always seemed at home with me and my farrier in all the years he has been shoeing said he's never met a horse that had settled so quickly.

The mind boggles...
 
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