Project horse being a pillock

[soloequestrian]

In his previous home my project has learned that if he is a bit naughty his rider will get off. I'm pretty sure he had an uncomfortable saddle at some point that first (understandably) started the behaviour (starts with stamping, then tiny rear threats and kicking out, some sideways moves). I've been very careful with his tack and he shows no sign of it being uncomfortable now. He's never been very keen on schooling so we've spent a long time mainly hacking and his muscles have improved a lot. The hacking is sheet ice at the moment though so we're back in the school. A few days ago we were working on straightness and he seemed to finally get the idea - he straightened out, trot got bigger, nice natural outline, it felt brilliant. I was over the moon. The next day he had a tantrum that lasted about the first 10 mins of the session - all of the behaviours above - then went into some nice relaxed trot work. Following day similar but shorter tantrum. I'm really just interested in views on this kind of behaviour - have you experienced anything similar and what did you do? I plan to sell him in the spring - he could go just as a hacking horse because he seems to enjoy that and is lovely out, but he's quite well bred and capable of some nice moves so it would be great to get him schooling consistently. I'm pretty sure he's not sore, unless moving in a slightly different way has given him some muscle stiffness but he really does relax by then end of each session and goes naturally round (I ride him in a sidepull). Feeling mildly frustrated hence the post....

 

[AmyMay]

How old is he? How long have you had him?

 

[soloequestrian]

He's 11, been with me 14 months. He'd had 2 years of doing nothing before I got him.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Sounds pretty normal for this time of year!! Sounds like he is trying to get out of work but once you have him working he relaxes. Have you tried starting over poles or something to get his attention straight away?

 

[soloequestrian]

No, actually, that's a good idea, I'll get some poles out!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Sounds like mine, far too stubborn and clever for their own good. Mine definitely thrives on keeping her brain engaged. I get more out of her by doing 10 mins over poles than 30 mins without. It sounds like it’s going in the right direction though, well done!

When I warm mine up I do lots of transitions, lateral work in walk etc. Nothing taxing but nothing too easy/straight forward either.

 

[BBP]

I also try to remember that horses probably get DOMS too ( delayed onset muscle soreness - remember that trip to the gym where you felt great during and after but the next day and the day after that your muscles were screaming at you and you had to go downstairs on your bum??!) I feel horses must be the same, so if you spend a decent session working on straightness on a crooked horse, and you get some good success, your horse has been engaging, stretching and contracting muscles in a way he might not usually, just like you after a Pilates session. It might not feel much but it can make you sore. If you try to do the same session the next day working those same muscle groups the same way you’d probably grumble too, but you might gradually ease off as you warm up. Same on day 2 (I always find day 2 the worst!).

I don’t think we give horses credit that this might happen to them, as we don’t see them as lifting weights or doing sit ups, but the principles of conditioning and recovery are the same. That’s not to say you shouldn’t work them day after day, but just do it with this in mind, make warm ups really long and progressive, maybe even start in hand so their backs can warm up without weight on them.

Not saying this is your horses issue, but it might be relevant?

 

[nikkimariet]

Until you said his age I thought you were describing Nova (though I can confirm I never got off or gave up or actually fell off through bad behaviour).

You say he’s well bred but never been keen on schooling. If he’s ok health wise then he might just not want to do that job.

My only advice is keep the work light, short, fun and varied.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It could be next day muscle soreness one of mine will take offence to schooling after an intensive session the day before, I often have a hack around the school with a friend if I can't get out or do some ground work and a light lunge the day after.

 

[soloequestrian]

I have wondered about muscle soreness. I always lunge him at the start anyway because he's had saddle issues in the past so I want him to be warm before I get on. He'll lunge 'long and low' quite quickly. If he's going to tantrum, he tends to let me know within a few steps of setting off, before we've done any straigtening work. I'll see if I can distract him more and give him a longer warmup once I'm on.

 

[soloequestrian]

And yes, and he has done more consecutive days in the school recently because of the weather - usually he hacks and schools in turn.

 

[Littlewills]

I'd test for PSSM, he sounds very much like he has type 2. The behaviour you described is text book. I think I remember reading hes a warmblood? If so type 2 is very prevalent in warmbloods and TBs sadly.

 

[soloequestrian]

I'd be very surprised if it's rhabdomyolysis having seen cases of that in the past. He gets better as exercise progresses, not worse, and he's always totally relaxed when turned out afterwards. He lives out 24/7 and gets a handful of oats each day so he's effectively managed for it anyway.

 

[Muddywellies]

I'd be very surprised if it's rhabdomyolysis having seen cases of that in the past. He gets better as exercise progresses, not worse, and he's always totally relaxed when turned out afterwards. He lives out 24/7 and gets a handful of oats each day so he's effectively managed for it anyway.

Oats?? You might have answered your own question.

 

[soloequestrian]

Literally a handful of oats. And he's not daft and full of energy, he's intermittently having a focussed tantrum. He doesn't do it on hacks, only in the school. I think oats are very much maligned, I've fed them to all my horses for many years and never seen any sort of 'heating' effect that people talk about. They're actually quite high fibre compared to other grains such as barley. If I was feeding him kilos of naked oats each day that might make a difference but not the quantity he gets.

 

[TPO]

I'm sure you've already got this covered but I'd be extra vigilant about saddle fit and massage (DIY or using a therapist).

As you are building correct muscle not only will he be using muscles differently/for the first time but as they develop his shape will change rapidly.

 

[soloequestrian]

Thanks for all the replies - helps me think about it in different ways! I suspect the DOMS theory is correct. He's a horse who is hyper-vigilant about things being sore or even just slightly uncomfortable, I think from his previous saddle experience. It would make sense that even if he only had slight muscle soreness he would over-react to it. He's having some time off just now because my school has succumbed to the perishing weather so it will be interesting to see what happens once I get on after a break. Of course he also seems to carry the memory of discomfort so it can be quite difficult to separate out what is actually affecting him and what affected him last time he did a particular activity. Ho hum.

 

[Littlewills]

I'd be very surprised if it's rhabdomyolysis having seen cases of that in the past. He gets better as exercise progresses, not worse, and he's always totally relaxed when turned out afterwards. He lives out 24/7 and gets a handful of oats each day so he's effectively managed for it anyway.

Type 2 is a form of PSSM, rhabdomyolysis is RER. Different symptoms and management for both.Type 2 does get better with exercise generally, and living out and oats wouldnt be management for it. The inconsistency is absolutely text book, along with explosive behaviour. It would be worth you doing some reading up on it. It may well not be, but the way you describe it and the fact you think DOMS is likely, makes it sound very likely that it is.

 

[soloequestrian]

Type 2 is a form of PSSM, rhabdomyolysis is RER. Different symptoms and management for both.Type 2 does get better with exercise generally, and living out and oats wouldnt be management for it. The inconsistency is absolutely text book, along with explosive behaviour. It would be worth you doing some reading up on it. It may well not be, but the way you describe it and the fact you think DOMS is likely, makes it sound very likely that it is.

Happy to read if you can recommend something relevant. The first two I found that looked relatively reliable from an internet search both called both types of PSSM forms of rhabdomyolysis.