Project Horses

QR- i advertised a horse on there last year for a fair amount of money, i dont do NH/parelli, he didnt have any vices, didnt buck or rear, he was just a horse that had done sod al in life and had the potential to do serious competitons, for somebody that wasnt worried about the age (he was 13) he was perfect, he was also starting to be proken to harness, so again a project there,

HOWEVER
ive just had a look at the ads, and the wording on some of them are a mystery, a pony for example is described as good to catch groom lead out etc, then in the next paragraph it says its not very well handled?????

there also seems to be a lot vwith navicular but the prognosis is good?? really i thought navi could only get worse over time?

people wanting 3k for a horse just because it is able to jump 4foot but rears and bolts is nuts! when advertising ok so you brush over things but people that try and turn a bucker that trys to get you off, into a wonderful horse is madness!

i did chuckle at one that says has been through intesive parelli... no wonder it has issues and is headshy/nervous!
 
Its a shame because I assumed Project Horses was a site for just that...horses that would make someone a good project..something someone could 'bring on' and therefore could buy cheaper than if it didn't need 'bringing on'..
I've not really had a good look on the site so am not sure what types are on there but most people that replied to my thread seem to think my friends horse would be better off on a 'normal' site..
 
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I'm willing to bet that 95% or so of the horses on project horses have problems far more serious and less fixable than people like to admit, whether its with carrot sticks or conventional methods. Over half of them admit their horses are to some extent lame, I bet most of the other half just don't know, they just want some of the money back they spent on said useless horse.
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I agree with this. The sad thing is that many of these horses may be in pain and/or dangerous and are 'marketed' as projects so that people who *think* they can 'turn a horse around' get some philanthropic buzz out of 'saving' said animal.

I too am amazed by the number of novices that seem to be attracted by this website. Especially since a lot of the animals are not cheap.

I have a mare who is a 'project horse' candidate but I would NEVER advertise her on this site. I would sooner advertise her as normal & then thoroughly vet anyone who was interested. Can't understand why people do it.
 
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my top moan about all 'alternatives' is that, having been spawned in america, they always start from the assumption that we are roping horses, throwing them to the floor, branding them and beating them with bullwhips.

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I think that's not a very prevalent belief in the US, either, it's mostly been put forward by the people trying to sell NH systems! There are still some very "old world" horse breakers, especially in the Southern US and some of the rougher western disciplines, but in fact most of the NH stuff came out of that world as people like Tom Dorrance have been espousing their theories for decades. It's the english world that's only just got hold of it.

That said, I think some of it is reactionary to some of the ill practices in the German Competitive School and similar. People hear about horses with their heads tied down etc. and often without even understanding react negatively by going off in a total tangent.

It really isn't "either or". Good horsemanship is very similar but I don't think that many people have experience with GOOD people and practices in enough different areas to recognise that people doing it badly are not representative of a system.

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Now I trained with the BHS when the only bloke who rode a horse without a bridle was Col Sir Mike Ansell, and let me tell you, that branding and bullwhip stuff wasn't on the syllabus even then.


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Do you have the copy of Riding High with the photos of him riding bridleless!?!!?? OMG! In a scary looking field jumping a frightening looking hedge, a bunch of BIG jumps, and a CHAIR!!!! Such, a sad, sad thing he couldn't continue to ride.

That sort of talent no one is EVER going to get from reading a book or watching a dvd!
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Wasn't it great? Leopard, wasn't it? I had the book but sold it in poor student days.
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That perfect poise over that dining chair! If it would have been today you'd have cried photoshop!
Wasn't there also woman, in the seventies ... maybe Shula something orother, who used to ride poss an arab with no bridle?
see, nothing new under the sun!
 
I know two people who have bought horses from the project horses website. One has turned into a sweethearrt after two months TLC and correct handling - he'd been allowed to buck and rear and generally act like an a*re. When C bought him she immediatly took control, changed his diet and the change was dramatic and virtually instant. The other one is a work in progress - she is proving to be very willing but at the same time is still verging on dangerously sharp, although with good schooling she is improving. Neither horse came from an NH home, both of their previous owners were over horsed which caused the problems
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Umm Parelli etc. Personally i think the problem comes from people who read books/watch DVD's go to demo's and believe they can do it. It takes more than that.
One of our rescues was from a Parelli yard. They told the owner to have her PTS thats why she came to us. She has not put a foot wrong. I use my methods - non realy - just what the horses have taught me.
Florin came round by me not knowingly useing Monty Roberts methods - i had never heard of him, it was years ago now. I just watched and 'listened to her' She came on perfect although i never used and never have done join up. I had to re-home her and Monty came on the scene. The people decided to 'copy' It went wrong and she broke the hand of one of them.
I don't think it is something that can be copied. People have an understanding or they don't. They will listen to their horse and learn or be deaf. If people wish to practice certain things i think they should learn from an acredited teacher.
It is a hot topic for me as i end up with the end results. It enfuriates me.
 
Alternatively you could read Lucy Rees, who is one of the original natural horsemanship exponents and yet is completely overlooked as she's not fashionable. She could teach the old Parelli boys a thing or two!!
 
I have found your post quite upsetting. I have a horse that was from project horses and yes she is very difficult to say the least, but I have worked with horses for many years and do not use perelli or NH methods.
I have not only got BHS stages but have also worked on various studs and comp yards.
I feel to tar everyone with the same brush is unfair.

Also I paid a very small amount of money for my horse so there are some genuine sellers who are truthful about their animals
 
I understand you sentiments, it is a shame because it is a great opportunity for folks to be totaly honest about their horses, and for a person with time and knowlege to pick up a rewarding (both in terms of money and satisfaction) horse.

The issue arises when people are unrealistic, both in terms of what their horse is worth, and trying to recoup their outlay - thats never going to happen! And for potential purchasers who may overestimate their skills at turning these horses round.

I had a quick look today, and whilst a lot of owners are offering trial etc and have good prices, there are a few, particulalry those with veterinary conditons that are being offered for unrealistic prices.
 
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I have found your post quite upsetting. I have a horse that was from project horses and yes she is very difficult to say the least, but I have worked with horses for many years and do not use perelli or NH methods.
I have not only got BHS stages but have also worked on various studs and comp yards.
I feel to tar everyone with the same brush is unfair.

Also I paid a very small amount of money for my horse so there are some genuine sellers who are truthful about their animals

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Apologies - it was not intended as such. I am sure there are some people, like yourself who have had some good success with project horses - these are the people who actually know what tehy are getting. But I do think you are the exception, not the norm and I make no apologies for expressing that.
 
QR

Thanks for the information everyone. I have found the debate very interesting. I haven't posted and run away - I am just at a wedding. I will be interested to log in later tonight and see what everyone else has to say.
 
I'm not seeing where Mayflower's post was upsetting? She didn't say everyone who bought off project horses was a novice, only that it did seem to attract them, and therefore she wouldn't advertise there, her choice.
I think it's frightening, too, how many novices seem to go this route, and wouldn't put a horse on there, for that among other reasons, but I don't think that reflects on your experience, nellieelephant?
 
We seem to be having two separate conversations now.
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Not quite bridleless, but who was the woman who showjumped to a high level in a "straight pull" hackamore? Yet another example of everything old being new again.
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I think it is a bit pertinent though. Those sorts of exercises used to be considered something experienced riders tried after they had learned the basics and how to do things "by the book". And very much, not every horse was considered suitable nor every rider sufficiently skilled/talented. Certainly no one thought that high level of accomplishment was something easily and quickly learned from a book!
 
That's true, I'm sure. Sylvia Stanier - wasn't she and I or a Fellow even? And when I knew Marthe K-W she was doing PhD stuff - none of them just picked up a dvd and went, ooh, I'll give that a go.
That would have been mad!
Also, Shuna Mardon seems to have developed her method in response to a very specific problem. Not sure if she then moved to riding all her horses that way?
 
I haven't read all the answers.

I think there are three options.

1. Horse was a problem horse to start with and a Natural Horsemanship approach has been brought in as another alternative.
I know of a lot of horses that are better for a (I hate using the NH banner as there are some very good methods with lots of common sense & some not so good ones) NH approach. Some horses are just so screwed up it probably isn't worth trying anymore and they should just be field ornaments or if dangerous PTS.

2. Rider/owner is a bit of a tree hugger and rather than go with what is right before them they try and follow a book and like to spout off how wonderful their methods are even tough the horses are rude, ill mannered and confused animals.

3. The seller has used NH methods and the horse knows those commands etc and so therefore seems logical that the horse moves on to a similar home.

I think there is a lot of sweeping statements made about NH people. I can't think of any two people who do things in exactly the same way. Whether they are more inclined towards the NH side of things or more conventional. Everyone is slightly different and something can be learnt from everyone even if it is something that makes you think "No, that isn't right for me".

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We are haveing an Intelligent horsemanship demo today
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I just hope people come to see what it is about and ask for help if needed and not think they can do it from watching for a couple of hours.
Don't know if anyone will turn up with the weather
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and there are those on Project horses, such as my friend who have bought a horse that wasn't what it said on the tin, spent some time trying to get on with him, have improved him with a bit of common sense, some hard work and lots of money and just want a good sympathetic home for him and to recoup a fraction of the money he has cost them
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No Parelli, No NH except good old fashioned common sense..
 
I thought that the purpose of project horses website was so that people could advertise their horses and openly say what was wrong with them and the type of home they think they would thrive in? Rather than advertise in traditional places coverign up the problems and wasting time seeign unsuitable buyers, buyers wasting money on vettings the horse will fail etc.

I do think it is buyer beware, but no more so than horses advertised anywhere else.

Like others, the thing that concerns me is people being unrealistic in what their own abilities are - and that includes the BHS way and natural horsemanship methods, and those who cherrypick the best from whichever methods - don't take it on unless you are sure you can handle the problem
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