Prong collars

But nothing beats the control of twenty couple of hounds,off lead.We puppy walkers train them to the lead,then couples,make them stock proof and reasonably obedient before they return to "big school".
Thereafter they learn to copy their educated elders ,initially by being coupled to an oldie. Very few pet dogs are as schooled as a foxhound.
 
jools123 said:
my two terriers are as good as gold both with drop in full chase of anything from vast distances:D
i have competed at obedience, my dogs all socialise well and behave when out and about (apart from the cat thing):D
he prey drive with cats is a nightmare:eek:
Click to expand...

You can now wear a badge thats states "I trained my terrier" so everyone every where should beable to do the same as a dog is a dog/terrier is a terrier;) obs it would be a big badge:D

By the way im aggreeing with you not against you, incase it did not seem that way:o:) im babbling some what, delirious from lack of sleep:o
 
Well I think the point most are making is "they can be trained":) using various methods and possibly not to the equal of another:)
Some huskys can be let of lead (others cannot) this will be down to varying factors (not just the training/handling)

We can see lots of schutzhund (sp) clips or indeed any other training clips where/could have trained in a prong collar/e collar etc (any other chosen tool), and dont have them on in the clips (I thinks that the thing about you tube clips), they dont really tell you much but do show you a result at the end:)
Not that im suggesting the jrt was, just a point.
 
Here is the reply I have received from www.luvyourdog.co.uk. This is in reply to my e-mail to them, expressing my concern:-


Thank you for contacting us. The prong collar is less well known in the UK than the USA and Europe where they are sold in pet shops and widely used. As a result there is a great amount of myth, mistruth and negative opinion of the prong collar prevalent within UK dog forums and social networking sites generally by people who have never actually seen the collar and certainly with no experience of their use, however they are very full of opinion and for the most part completely incorrect.

The prong collar is neither cruel nor barbaric, the design of the prong collar is for a more gentle application of pressure than a choke collar and even a head collar. While it may look quite intimidating the prong collar doesn't pinch or poke the skin, it relies on the bodies natural instinct not to push into points of pressure. It doesn't rely on pain, intimidation, stress or fear and the handler doesn't need to drag or yank on the lead for it to work effectively. Compare that to a head collar which looks quite inoffensive and kind, yet routinely pulls into the eyes, rubs fur off muzzles, damages neck muscles, causes high levels of stress and anxiety... yet is put forward as a gentle alternative to a prong collar when I personally wouldn't ever let a head collar near a dog because they're so dangerous.

A comment we receive regularly is "how would you like it if one were used on you", the answer is I'm completely indifferent. Over the years myself and the team have tried and tested every one of the prong collars on ourselves, trainers regularly encourage their clients to try the collar on themselves before using the collar on their dog, and we often speak to customers who have done the same. If you anticipate the collar to cause pain and harm based on how it looks then you would be quite surprised to actually handle one and find out it doesn't pinch, nip, poke or hurt in general. It's extremely unlikely for the collar to cause a dog to become aggressive, the collar itself is a passive tool and aggression would need to be incited by the handler, the collar won't cause that behaviour unless that is the specific intention of the handler and there are easier and more effective ways to encourage aggression than using a collar of any type.

We supply working dog equipment to a variety of dog sports and disciplines as well as show dogs, family pets and service dogs. The prong collars are used quite extensively in shutzhund, field trials and gundog work, and by a growing number of dog trainers who have become familiar with their use. Should we have reason to believe the collars were dangerous or abusive we simply wouldn't sell them, just as we don't sell head collars or restricting harnesses.


regards,

Austin Ward,
Customer Service.
 
I was against prong collars until I saw and used one.

I brought one back from the USA several years ago.

It was, for some reason, in the back of my car unused. I was in town when a young woman was pulled across the road by a Great Dane going 'after' another dog on my side of the road. She stood as much chance of stopping him as pulling down a telegraph pole with cotton thread.
She was doing her best to stop him - he was on a flat collar as he had bruised his neck with a choke, and crying. As he went past me I grabbed the lead and hauled. That stopped him. I felt sorry for the woman who was doing her best, I mentioned training classes and she had been attending them regularly since he was a pup. He was now 18 months.
I offered to help which was gratefully received. I fetched the prong from the car and fitted it. I also used a horse long lead rope.

Luckily the person with the other dog then walked back down the road on the opposite side. Dog saw and took one bound forward. I had the rope over my left hip and up over the right shoulder. I did nothing bar give him enough rope to leap and brace against the leap. He jumped forward and met with resistance. He felt it, he yelped but immediately stopped trying to get after the other dog.
I walked that dog to heel through a busy High Street and he never pulled once. The owner did the same.

They had spent goodness knows how much with a qualified dog trainer and had an over exuberant, over grown pup who was numb to anything he did not want to do,

I spent about 6 hours with woman, dog and her husband and they had 'got' it. The prong was obsolete. Last time I saw them before husband got posted overseas, was with the dog walking to heel through the High Street carrying a shopping bag, on a flat collar taking no notice of anything going on around them.

All to often you see dogs with a choke chain on pulling away and gasping for breath or even gargling with their breathing. More damage is done through this than with a prong.

Agreed that there is nothing better than good training, but even then some dogs will not be complicit to what is being asked of them. Having something that makes them realise that you are in control puts you at an advantage, doesn't mean that you have to use it.
 
i too thought that pinch collars were cruel until i saw, and was shown how to use one.

i have one and use it on a regular basis. my dog is well trained... but her drive is unbelievable and she can pull a wooden bench with three people sitting on it to get to what she wants. rather than have a tug of war, or faceplant the pavement when a cat/dog walks by, i prefer to give her a reminder with her pinch.

she has never been hurt or harmed by it. think about your horse... if you want it to move over and lean in it- it leans back. poke it with a finger and it moves over.

like everything, a pinch is a useful tool when used correctly, and dangerous in the wrong hands.

if it makes me a bad dog owner then fine. i actually got my pinch from luvmydog, i found them very reasonable and a good company to deal with.
 
That's a nice measured response from LuvMyDog - what do you think now MiJods.

Regarding Schutzhund (not sure about KC working trials), seeing as it has been mentioned, the only legal collar allowed during competition is a flat link choke chain on the dead link (with the possible inclusion of a baucher harness in tracking), so basically a flat collar, the dog may not be touched by the handler while the dog is working and obedience and protection are offlead. So whatever training aid or not, used prior to competition, is irrelevant on the day if the dog cannot go in a flat collar.
 
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