Proper answer to the barefoot trimming post

[cptrayes]

The "berefoot shoeing" post has generated a really fun thread, but in looking at the original poster's early posts, he/she is probably not a troll. So here is a translation of what he/she wrote, kindly supplied by Maisie06:

Originally Posted by fuzzle
Hi everyone. There is a lady in my area who is doing barefoot trimming. I spoke to her and she was very confident. It made sense, so I thought I would ask my farrier what he thought, the reply I got was he was NOT HAPPY!!! He said that if you want to try barefoot then he would help me with it and monitor my horses feet for me and if it didn t work out then we would have go back to shoes. I thought that was really good deal. When I asked my farrier why he was so upset about these barefoot trimmers he said it took him years of hard work to be a qualified farrier he not only trained to be doing the shoeing but years of studying the horses foot and how it works as well as lameness issues and working with vets and corrective shoeing, now it made sense I did my research and it only takes 3 months for a barefoot trimmer to become qualified!!!! that answered my question too. Who do I choose my own farrier with years of experience or someone who done a quick course? My farrier always comes first and is much cheaper too!

If you are tempted by anyone regarding barefoot trimming speak to your own farrier. I was so taken in by the barefoot trimmer. I am glad that i stayed with the farrier i have had for many many years.

And here is my answer.

1. This subject has been done to death on this forum and if you search "barefoot trimmer" you will see what the proper answers to your point are.

2. I think you were unwise to post with such assertion warning people off using a barefoot trimmer from a point of so little knowledge. I would have been happy to discuss the issue, a-gain, but you made an assertion, you did not ask for discussion, except in the title.

3. I am sorry if you think we were ill mannered in turning your post into a joke thread, but if you do some more research then I think you will see why it happened.




4. If your farrier is so brilliant why has he never mentioned to you before that he thinks your horse can go without shoes? And why do you now attack the very trimmer who put the idea in your head, without even allowing her to show you what she could achieve with your horse that your farrier has not?



...

 

[tallyho!]

It would be nice if there was a simple link to the differing training received by all hoof professionals.

In fact, I would love it if LANTRA would unite the whole shebang.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

The "berefoot shoeing" post has generated a really fun thread, but in looking at the original poster's early posts, he/she is probably not a troll. So here is a translation of what he/she wrote, kindly supplied by Maisie06:



And here is my answer.

1. This subject has been done to death on this forum and if you search "barefoot trimmer" you will see what the proper answers to your point are.

2. I think you were unwise to post with such assertion warning people off using a barefoot trimmer from a point of so little knowledge. I would have been happy to discuss the issue, a-gain, but you made an assertion, you did not ask for discussion, except in the title.

3. I am sorry if you think we were ill mannered in turning your post into a joke thread, but if you do some more research then I think you will see why it happened.




4. If your farrier is so brilliant why has he never mentioned to you before that he thinks your horse can go without shoes? And why do you now attack the very trimmer who put the idea in your head, without even allowing her to show you what she could achieve with your horse that your farrier has not?



...

So you arrogantly accuse them of being a troll, they get slated for their poor spelling and now you backtrack and say you don't think they are a troll, and give a patronising translation, do you know what?? I actually find these self righteous I have the correct answer posts far more annoying that troll posts!

Troll posts often give people chance to have a valued arguement on both sides.

People should be allowed to post on parelli, Clinton Anderson, unshod or whatever without people saying they are bored..perhaps if people are so bored they should join another forum with fresh new people on there

 

[tallyho!]

DD, to be fair, a really good discussion was had from original post. I know a lot more about hobbits and legwarmers now than I did previously, and this Thai fish stuff I had never heard of... It's completely true and I have found a spa near me that has them! Just booked me n my friend in for next Saturday!

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Tally Ho! shush

I actually didn't get past the first page on that post.....................

Off for a shower now, so byeeeeee XX

 

[Cedars]

No, go on then, cptrayes. Explain away the OPs point:

Farriers take years and years to learn their skill.

Barefoot trimmers take months.

But we should all be putting our trust in these people and disgarding our farriers?!

 

[JFTDWS]

DD, to be fair, a really good discussion was had from original post. I know a lot more about hobbits and legwarmers now than I did previously, and this Thai fish stuff I had never heard of... It's completely true and I have found a spa near me that has them! Just booked me n my friend in for next Saturday!

My problem with thread is that because it was stupidly named about berefoot [sic] trimming, I avoided it and appear to have missed a potentially very interesting discussion about hobbits and legwarmers

 

[tallyho!]

No, go on then, cptrayes. Explain away the OPs point:

Farriers take years and years to learn their skill.

Barefoot trimmers take months.

But we should all be putting our trust in these people and disgarding our farriers?!

But why do farriers take so long to learn?? A horses foot isn't THAT complex, i mean, not like sending a missile into space or anything, not that koreans can do that so well. and bashing metal into shape I learnt in tech at school. Is it coz they are a bit dim? And why if they have all that time to learn, they still get it wrong??? Well, not every single one but some of them.

 

[Cedars]

Oh righhhttttt, I hadn't thought about that!!! Of COURSE the reason farriers take so long is because they're stupid..! It's so LOGICAL now I think about it...









*remind myself never to use barefoot if they apply logic like above*

 

[Casey76]

A lot of the farriery training is about hand forging various types of shoes (or at least it was) and learning about various grades of steel, what clips do what kind of job etc so while a farrier can be spending a LONG time on metal work, this isn't needed for barefoot trimming.

Having said that, I wouldn't use a trimmer who had only trained for three months! There are a few very well established training courses now, which require continuous development/training in order to remain affiliated with a particular "school" of trimming.

All in all, it depends on what is available to you, and how much time and effort you are willing to put in.

I've always used a farrier, for shoeing or trimming because at the time the only "barefoot" available was the radical Strasser trim, and her students weren't going anywhere near my horses feet

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Unfortunately while all the in crowd were having a laugh on the orginal thread, the new poster didn't return to the post.

Not a nice way to treat someone who might make a very valuable contribution to the forum.
Or is this an attempt to censor newcomers who don't toe (pun intended ) the barefoot party line ?

If Barefoot has been done to death, is no one to ever mention other recycled topics that may be of interest to those who missed previous threads ?
Or perhaps we can give The Barefoot Diet, whatever that is, -complete with chemistry lab feed rooms, a rest too ?

 

[YasandCrystal]

Oh righhhttttt, I hadn't thought about that!!! Of COURSE the reason farriers take so long is because they're stupid..! It's so LOGICAL now I think about it...


*remind myself never to use barefoot if they apply logic like above*

Yes of course and then there are all the stupid owners who can't tell a well shod foot from a bad one and who happily pay a trimmer double or treble what a farrier charges for a barefoot trim. And of course actually with the right diet and exercsie the barefoot horse actually self balances to his/her conformation and if the BF brigade don't realise that and want to continue to pay their £40 or £50 for diet advice anyone can research go ahead!

I have 2 BF and 2 with fronts and not a BF trimmer in sight.

And whilst we are on recycled topics try ulcers.....yawn

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Yes of course and then there are all the stupid owners who can't tell a well shod foot from a bad one and who happily pay a trimmer double or treble what a farrier charges for a barefoot trim. And of course actually with the right diet and exercsie the barefoot horse actually self balances to his/her conformation and if the BF brigade don't realise that and want to continue to pay their £40 or £50 for diet advice anyone can research go ahead!

I have 2 BF and 2 with fronts and not a BF trimmer in sight.

And whilst we are on recycled topics try ulcers.....yawn

Thats right you two, It's a bit like Foxhunting, i can't be bothered to get in discussions about it, so I choose not to comment on threads about this sort of thing, what I didn't like is the bullying to the original OP! Poor spelling is not for me to judge either! If people want to discuss anything on here and people don't like it then don't comment, it's fairly simple really. As regards to why a farrier has many yrs training, I would imagine they learn about the whole horse and a horses movement, not just the foot!

 

[dressagelove]

Yes of course and then there are all the stupid owners who can't tell a well shod foot from a bad one and who happily pay a trimmer double or treble what a farrier charges for a barefoot trim. And of course actually with the right diet and exercsie the barefoot horse actually self balances to his/her conformation and if the BF brigade don't realise that and want to continue to pay their £40 or £50 for diet advice anyone can research go ahead!

I have 2 BF and 2 with fronts and not a BF trimmer in sight.

And whilst we are on recycled topics try ulcers.....yawn

Well I don't use my farrier to trim my barefoot horses because I am sick to death of being told they can't go barefoot and being made to feel like the worst horse owner in the world because I dared take the shoes of my two thoroughbreds. Who in fact are doing better than ever before.

I also get regularly shot down for taking their shoes off by my instructor and vets. The narrow mindedness against barefoot is what fuels the arguments and 'discussions'.

The only ones who support me are barefooters. So sorry for going to a barefoot trimmer because they don't make me want to string myself up! If that costs me an extra £15 then that's fine by me.

If a well qualified farrier in my area was willing to try and get on board with my horses then grrreat

 

[Tinypony]

No, go on then, cptrayes. Explain away the OPs point:

Farriers take years and years to learn their skill.

Barefoot trimmers take months.

But we should all be putting our trust in these people and disgarding our farriers?!

Blimey, how many times has that point been answered in previous threads? Do people really expect others to patiently keep re-typing the same answers? Surely any regular poster will have either followed the barefoot threads before, or can do a search to catch up?

 

[YasandCrystal]

Well I don't use my farrier to trim my barefoot horses because I am sick to death of being told they can't go barefoot and being made to feel like the worst horse owner in the world because I dared take the shoes of my two thoroughbreds. Who in fact are doing better than ever before.

I also get regularly shot down for taking their shoes off by my instructor and vets. The narrow mindedness against barefoot is what fuels the arguments and 'discussions'.

The only ones who support me are barefooters. So sorry for going to a barefoot trimmer because they don't make me want to string myself up! If that costs me an extra £15 then that's fine by me.

If a well qualified farrier in my area was willing to try and get on board with my horses then grrreat

I don't blame you. My hubby is a farrier and thankfully very open minded and he is pro barefoot. He often suggests it to owners where to him it is an obvious option. He has several TB owners whose horses are BF too.

I agree Devonshire Dumpling the original thread was badly slated. The spelling and grammar in HHO is often less than perfect, but then it's not an English class.

 

[Cedars]

£15 for a 'barefoot trim' for the hoss-from the farrier-bargain!

 

[dressagelove]

I don't blame you. My hubby is a farrier and thankfully very open minded and he is pro barefoot. He often suggests it to owners where to him it is an obvious option. He has several TB owners whose horses are BF too.

I agree Devonshire Dumpling the original thread was badly slated. The spelling and grammar in HHO is often less than perfect, but then it's not an English class.

Bummer your hubby is allll the way down south then
ps. coco in your sig looks awesome, what a dude

 

[Flame_]

But why do farriers take so long to learn?? A horses foot isn't THAT complex, i mean, not like sending a missile into space or anything, not that koreans can do that so well. and bashing metal into shape I learnt in tech at school. Is it coz they are a bit dim? And why if they have all that time to learn, they still get it wrong??? Well, not every single one but some of them.

Well tbf farriers don't just learn to shape the hoof and that nutrition affects hoof quality. If that were all they trained to do they probably could learn it all in a few months.... Like trimmers. They learn to make shoes, nail shoes on to hooves and learn to make and use different types of shoes, and hoof sculpting techniques to help soundness problems. That takes a hell of a longer to learn than trimming IMO.

As for why they take so long training only for some to still do a poor job, well as with anything it depends on who's teaching and on the student's natural aptitude and dedication whether they are ever going to turn out good at what they have trained for or just competent enough to scrape through the tests.

 

[Goldenstar]

So you arrogantly accuse them of being a troll, they get slated for their poor spelling and now you backtrack and say you don't think they are a troll, and give a patronising translation, do you know what?? I actually find these self righteous I have the correct answer posts far more annoying that troll posts!

Troll posts often give people chance to have a valued arguement on both sides.

People should be allowed to post on parelli, Clinton Anderson, unshod or whatever without people saying they are bored..perhaps if people are so bored they should join another forum with fresh new people on there

Yup people trolls or otherwise should be able to post whatever they like within some bounds of decency and good manners) and we are able to respond however we like .
It's so simple if it annoys you don't read it , I don't but I'll make of a thread what I chose and you have to admit the original post was pretty silly in the way it was worded so it's not surprising it lead where it did.

 

[Goldenstar]

Unfortunately while all the in crowd were having a laugh on the orginal thread, the new poster didn't return to the post.

Not a nice way to treat someone who might make a very valuable contribution to the forum.
Or is this an attempt to censor newcomers who don't toe (pun intended ) the barefoot party line ?

If Barefoot has been done to death, is no one to ever mention other recycled topics that may be of interest to those who missed previous threads ?
Or perhaps we can give The Barefoot Diet, whatever that is, -complete with chemistry lab feed rooms, a rest too ?

Don't read threads you don't like it's so easy.
If you word a thread in a silly way on here newcomer or otherwise you can expect people will have a bit of fun with it.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don't blame you. My hubby is a farrier and thankfully very open minded and he is pro barefoot. He often suggests it to owners where to him it is an obvious option. He has several TB owners whose horses are BF too.

I agree Devonshire Dumpling the original thread was badly slated. The spelling and grammar in HHO is often less than perfect, but then it's not an English class.

I wish your hubby was round here.

 

[ScarlettLady]

No, go on then, cptrayes. Explain away the OPs point:

Farriers take years and years to learn their skill.

Barefoot trimmers take months.

But we should all be putting our trust in these people and disgarding our farriers?!

Surely its like all professions, rather than having the farrier vs barefoot trimmer debate, i think it comes down to this
- there are some fantastic farriers, and some dreadful farriers! just because its taken them years to train, does not mean that they are any good....
equally i believe there are some fantastic barefoot trimmers! but this 'barefootness' is a fairly new 'science'

there are none in my local area, but my trainer's partner is a barefoot trimmer and whilst she gives me some guidance on barefoot, my farrier trims my horses feet, and i trust them both.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Bummer your hubby is allll the way down south then
ps. coco in your sig looks awesome, what a dude

Thanks Coco really is a dude now finally at 3 years old!!!

 

[paddy555]

Yes of course and then there are all the stupid owners who can't tell a well shod foot from a bad one and who happily pay a trimmer double or treble what a farrier charges for a barefoot trim. And of course actually with the right diet and exercsie the barefoot horse actually self balances to his/her conformation and if the BF brigade don't realise that and want to continue to pay their £40 or £50 for diet advice anyone can research go ahead!

I do agree with you. Just about all the info on diet etc is available for free on the net. A week's research and anyone can save a heap of money and a lot of time in their barefoot journey.

However I can see the point dressagelove was making (being familiar with her story from the phoenix list)
If you want to go without shoes, your vet is against you as are your riding instructor and your farrier then probably the only person who is going to help you is a trimmer who will at least spend time with you and answer your questions.
There will always be good and bad trimmers and farriers but I think sometimes that trimmers may have the edge on communication skills. OK you pay for it but for some people that extra bit of money to point them in the right direction, or to stop them making a bad mistake may be worth it.

Having got the diet/exercise and trimming correct and for the most part self trimming then I think to be successful barefoot owners have to learn sufficient to be able to maintain their horse's feet. (OK probably with minimal farrier/trimmer supervision)
Leaving aside the cost the best way of maintaining barefoot feet is for the owner to spot problems and make minute adjustments as they go along.

 

[Marydoll]

This thread really makes me appreciate my farrier
I have 1 shod and 2 unshod, all are done by my farrier, he makes a great job and i have discussions with him about everything from nutrition to suppliments and barefoot.
He states that if a horse can go barefoot, its to be encouraged as its not natural to nail shoes onto the horses foot, but that it is sometimes neccessary due to the type of work and the stresses put on the foot to keep the horse shod.
If my farrier needs to change times, runs late, he will always phone to ask if this is ok, if not, the extra set asked for on the day at another yard will need to book him in on a different day, his priority is the customers on his book for that day.
If my horse loses a shoe ( seldom) and im needing it on, he makes a point of getting it done in time for me to compete, or asap.
I bend over backwards to help him out if i can, as i know he does the same for me.

 

[abitodd]

But why do farriers take so long to learn?? A horses foot isn't THAT complex, i mean, not like sending a missile into space or anything, not that koreans can do that so well. and bashing metal into shape I learnt in tech at school. Is it coz they are a bit dim? And why if they have all that time to learn, they still get it wrong??? Well, not every single one but some of them.

You must be looking for a fight today!

My OH is a farrier. He is exceptionally bright,which is why he started learning about and specializing in barefoot horses over 15 years ago!

I will admit that in some areas he is a bit dim(paperwork and loading a dishwasher) but when it comes to horse's feet,diet,locomtion,behavior etc he excells. He can also rebuild a VW gearbox which for me is akin to sending a missle into space.

 

[Natch]

2. I think you were unwise to post with such assertion warning people off using a barefoot trimmer from a point of so little knowledge. I would have been happy to discuss the issue, a-gain, but you made an assertion, you did not ask for discussion, except in the title.

This I think is the crux of the matter as to why the thread wasn't taken seriously. The original post came across as immature, with the writing style and biased viewpoint. Had the original OP researched barefoot trimmers a bit more before making up their mind, or even posted with a more apparent open mind, they might have had a very different reception.

I'm pretty sure that if someone's only source of information was animal aid's website, they would be certain that the grand national is unspeakable cruelty, and that whips should be banned. If they only spoke to a huntmaster, they would believe foxhunting was perfectly fine. Luckily, most of us like to gather our information from more than just one source

I wouldn't use a trimmer who had only trained for three months!

Likewise most of us wouldn't. Its just a pity the OP was convinced that all barefoot trimmers are the same (I know, I know, a lot of barefooters give the impression they think all farriers are the same).

Unfortunately while all the in crowd were having a laugh on the orginal thread, the new poster didn't return to the post.

Is this an attempt to censor newcomers who don't toe (pun intended ) the barefoot party line ?

Do you really think that? Who are the "in crowd" and what qualifies them to be in the gang? I must be in it because I just can't see it. There were many posters who I did and didn't recognise from elsewhere on the forum, and I know that it contained both "pros and antis" for want of a better description of people's stance on barefoot trimmers.

As for censorship being an issue, surely a) the antis wouldn't be contributing to censoring the OP, and b) HHO is the least likely place for that to happen!

 

[pines of rome]

I have nothing against farriers, when my horse was shod my farrier would try different types of shoe to help my horse but when nothing was working and my horse got nail bind every time he was shod I had to look at an alternative or pts!
I have a trimmer now, she is not a magician he will not be sound straight away but he is improving slowly and I am glad I have her to help me!
I find that a trimmer will give so much support, answering questions when ever you have them!
Farriers I am afraid just don,t offer the same commitment, half the time you are lucky if they even return a call or message!

 

[tallyho!]

You must be looking for a fight today!

My OH is a farrier. He is exceptionally bright,which is why he started learning about and specializing in barefoot horses over 15 years ago!

I will admit that in some areas he is a bit dim(paperwork and loading a dishwasher) but when it comes to horse's feet,diet,locomtion,behavior etc he excells. He can also rebuild a VW gearbox which for me is akin to sending a missle into space.

That is good but it baffles me, as to why four farriers, all members of the worshipful, supposedly specialists in remedial work, could not make my horse sound?

It motivated me to do my own personal development into hooves and decided that bf is the way forward. I was right!! I have no training whatsoever!!!

And if, the bright sparks were so bright, why did they not corner the bf market 15 years ago if they knew so much about it? I know the worshipfuls were consulted on a great matter of things and because they all huffed and puffed, some people looking for alternatives had to go to US to get some help.

I Have been maintaining and fixing my own land rover engines since I was a teen. So, there