PSSM...a few months on

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peaceandquiet1

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Hi i recently posted about a pony who has suspected PSSM type 2. Following advice here and elsewhere including discussing with vet pony has been on natural Vitamin E. The difference in her has been remarkable. She has restarted light ridden work although due to extreme weather her exercise programme has been affected.

My question is what do i do now?

She was on nano e though currently on the Equiminns oil. Do I keep her on the vit e for ever and how do I know how much to give her? I am worried about travelling her as that used to affect her, can she get extra vit e or will that not help?

Any advice of any kind about follow on management would be really appreciated!
 
For my fellow,, who is bigger than yours, I reduce the vitamin E when there is more in the grass. He is affected very quickly if he doesn't get enough, so for me it's easy to tell. Roughly, he's on:


December January February 4,500 iu
October November March April 3,000iu
June July August September 2,000 iu

You might be able to play around with dosage with yours safely if you know her muscle tone inside out and she reacts quickly.

I would also give him more at stressful times if he was a stressy horse.

It's for life I'm afraid, and her needs may go up as she gets older, my one's have.
 
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mine stays on high dose vit e all the year round. Around 8oooiu per day. Also alcar as there is a difference if no alcar. It is for life as is the rugging and exercise regime. You don't cure PSSM just manage it.
For travelling I would rug well and if necessary break the journey and take her out for exercise is that is safe or just do a short journey. I guess that if she was able to travel loose in a lorry that would help. It may help to ride her before travelling to keep her loose.
 
Also on vitamin E for life. Just had to bump up to 7500iU for my type 1 symptomatic mare, but the other does well on about 500iU (ish). The weather over the past month has been a nightmare to deal with.

As regards travelling, you can only try and see what happens. Mine did 45 mins in the lorry for a trip to horspital for a lameness work-up and appeared fine. Her blood test said otherwise! All I can advise is make sure they are as fit as possible before travelling so the muscle work-out they get from balancing in the lorry isn't too much of a strain.
 
She looks so much better following the changes already made. The most noticeable thing is she has not, for a while now, exhibited the "false colic" symptoms, screaming and kicking out. i don't know how she will fare under saddle but it is time to give it a try.
 
peaceandquiet1 said:
She looks so much better following the changes already made. The most noticeable thing is she has not, for a while now, exhibited the "false colic" symptoms, screaming and kicking out. i don't know how she will fare under saddle but it is time to give it a try.
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I actually did have a minor colic (impaction - not drinking enough) that I blamed on PSSM. Felt like a very bad mum!

Slow, slow, slow warm-up is a good idea especially if you are coming back into work. Mine is P1, but the advice from Liverpool is probably the same [below]. Mine found lunging so hard to start with that I actually ended up walking up and down (& up and down etc etc) the lane outside my old yard with her. Then trotting up and down it. I did wonder whether I could buy a golfing buggy and lead her off it at one point...... Good luck and let's hope you get this sorted.

* start on the lunge, but not tight circles.
* walk work until she can do 5 mins of trot and then build that up by 5 mins every few days.
* don't ride until she can do 20 mins of non-stop trotting on the lunge
* start your riding for short periods after the lunging to allow her back to get used to the weight of the rider again
* keep the work active. Walk does not use up the glucose in the same way as trot and canter. Aim for 45 mins fast work every day.
 
I have just tried removing alcar from mine because I realised that I didn't know if he really needed it. It took a month, but he has run out of stamina. He's back on it from today.
 
SEL said:
I actually did have a minor colic (impaction - not drinking enough) that I blamed on PSSM. Felt like a very bad mum!

Slow, slow, slow warm-up is a good idea especially if you are coming back into work. Mine is P1, but the advice from Liverpool is probably the same [below]. Mine found lunging so hard to start with that I actually ended up walking up and down (& up and down etc etc) the lane outside my old yard with her. Then trotting up and down it. I did wonder whether I could buy a golfing buggy and lead her off it at one point...... Good luck and let's hope you get this sorted.

* start on the lunge, but not tight circles.
* walk work until she can do 5 mins of trot and then build that up by 5 mins every few days.
* don't ride until she can do 20 mins of non-stop trotting on the lunge
* start your riding for short periods after the lunging to allow her back to get used to the weight of the rider again
* keep the work active. Walk does not use up the glucose in the same way as trot and canter. Aim for 45 mins fast work every day.
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And just to be confusing, some type 2s do better if you go straight into canter as a warm up. Dabdab has one, I think. Mine seems better in walk some days and on others only wants to canter.
 
ycbm said:
I have just tried removing alcar from mine because I realised that I didn't know if he really needed it. It took a month, but he has run out of stamina. He's back on it from today.
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interesting, it is noticeable on mine after 2 days
 
paddy555 said:
interesting, it is noticeable on mine after 2 days
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I'm fascinated by the range of symptoms of this disease. Vitamin E, I can tell the day after he has had too little. Alcar was much more subtle, I even put my stock up for sale!
 
ycbm said:
And just to be confusing, some type 2s do better if you go straight into canter as a warm up. Dabdab has one, I think. Mine seems better in walk some days and on others only wants to canter.
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Um, yes and no for my lad (he's actually pssm1 :p) - he's often better overall if he goes into canter pretty quickly when schooling as the rest of his work is fairly ropey until he's done 10mins of canter. But that has only become possible since I've got him to a decent fitness level. To get him to that level I had to build up pretty slowly, using hacking mainly, with 1 or 2 lunge sessions a week thrown in when I was short of time.

The one thing that has always helped when schooling, no matter what stage, has been tons and tons of transitions. Small trot to working trot to small trot... Is particularly useful

Alcar is the real key to mine nutrition-wise, but playing around I've found the most benefit is given by it if I feed it in the feed he gets after working, just before turnout, and he only gets it when he has been worked.
 
Oh god it's complicated isn't it ?

It never occurred to me to feed alcar after exercise. I didn't realise yours was a 1. My impression is they are harder to manage than 2's. Mind you, I don't know which mine is, I've never bothered to test him.
 
Indeed, a strange malady for sure...

Yeah he's type 1 on hair test, I've never had biopsy as I think he'd find it too traumatic and he pops out a sarcoid at the first whiff of stress. We've done a few pre and post exercise blood tests to give some idea on reactions too, but it's always such a guessing/trial and error game isn't it.
 
DabDab said:
Indeed, a strange malady for sure...

Yeah he's type 1 on hair test, I've never had biopsy as I think he'd find it too traumatic and he pops out a sarcoid at the first whiff of stress. We've done a few pre and post exercise blood tests to give some idea on reactions too, but it's always such a guessing/trial and error game isn't it.
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Yes, last year ago I got the vitamin E wrong on one of my two so badly that I had his neck x rayed for ataxia. He had muscle enzyme tests done that were totally normal even though he was unable to canter a 20m circle.

I'm glad to be down to just one, but I've bought an appyx as a replacement, so who knows!
 
peaceandquiet1 said:
Can anybody advise of the dose for Alcar please
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There is no specific dose... just what your particular case needs. I've tweaked mine up and down a few times but a 25ml scoop of alcar and 15ml scoop of glutamine seems the best combo for mine... like I say don't copy as you might find it too high or low, best add in small and work up to an optimum.

It's taken nearly 4 months to get it right for mine.
 
She is on a teaspoon or so, thank you for the advice. I have the physio booked for a review so will be interesting to hear what she has to say about her muscles.
 
My vet said at the beginning, if there is no response to protein, high fat is an alternative. I've kept the fat the same as she was always on (a small mug of micronised linseed) and energy levels have improved with the addition of the protein and vit e (she's on 10000iu at the moment!!!) but you may find high fat better suited... it really is an experiment in itself but there is a good article by Dr Eleanor Kellon on forageplus about PSSM that you may find useful.
 
tallyho! said:
My vet said at the beginning, if there is no response to protein, high fat is an alternative. I've kept the fat the same as she was always on (a small mug of micronised linseed) and energy levels have improved with the addition of the protein and vit e (she's on 10000iu at the moment!!!) but you may find high fat better suited... it really is an experiment in itself but there is a good article by Dr Eleanor Kellon on forageplus about PSSM that you may find useful.
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Fat works for mine. Which is a challenge as she isn't exactly slim and can't tolerate linseed.
 
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