PSSM Diet

[Christmas Crumpet]

I didn't actually see a huge difference till I removed the balancer. I was told on here to remove everything extra from the basic diet and start from there. So a balancer makes mine symptomatic, linseed another persons. Make sure you've got vit e and salt though.

 

[SEL]

Please could anyone tell me how long after introducing Vitamin E they have seen a difference in their horse? (I mean how long does it take to see a difference ).Thanks.

I think there's too many variables for an easy answer to that question. I tend to trial changes for a fortnight - & hope for a miracle!!

 

[paddy555]

Please could anyone tell me how long after introducing Vitamin E they have seen a difference in their horse? (I mean how long does it take to see a difference ).Thanks.

couple of days for mine to be just a little bit nicer, around 4 days when it became obvious something was happening, a week and we were sure of a difference. Mine was clearly very deficient and also most likely PSSM with solid muscles and sore. The spookiness stopped immediately. The week before he was a nightmare to take out. Some days OK yet the next he would go on the same route he had done a hundred times before and spook continuously. The vit E put an end to spooking.

 

[emfen1305]

Plucked out tail hairs much to the protest of the poor pony but hopefully have enough. I'm going to send them off today. In the meantime I have taken him off the balancer so he is only on mash and a couple of supplements for his various issues! Holding off on buying the Vitamin E until I get the results, if he doesn't have it then i'll be going back to the vets as the poor boy looked really down in the dumps this weekend and I don't think it was weather related!

 

[paddy555]

Plucked out tail hairs much to the protest of the poor pony but hopefully have enough. I'm going to send them off today. In the meantime I have taken him off the balancer so he is only on mash and a couple of supplements for his various issues! Holding off on buying the Vitamin E until I get the results, if he doesn't have it then i'll be going back to the vets as the poor boy looked really down in the dumps this weekend and I don't think it was weather related!

don't forget that the test will only be for type 1. I suspect that there are many more type 2 horses. If yours is one of these then, unless you biopsy, the only way i can see you will get a any idea is the type 2 management regime.

 

[SEL]

Plucked out tail hairs much to the protest of the poor pony but hopefully have enough. I'm going to send them off today. In the meantime I have taken him off the balancer so he is only on mash and a couple of supplements for his various issues! Holding off on buying the Vitamin E until I get the results, if he doesn't have it then i'll be going back to the vets as the poor boy looked really down in the dumps this weekend and I don't think it was weather related!

Keep us posted. If it comes back negative then there's been a lot of work over in the US on the correct diet for type 2 PSSM cases and the FB forum is a good source of info.

 

[emfen1305]

Just spent some time reading through this thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?725093-Epsm-pssm and decided to get the oil some mag ox, I am very fickle haha. I bought the Equimins Vit E oil and found they did it in a smaller bottle so just went for the 500ml rather than the 1l. Mag Ox is cheap and my friend uses it so I can just give it to her if it has adverse effect, I got the 99.9% one, I dont know if that is right (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnesium...541894?hash=item41979d49c6:g:bdIAAOSwpdpVeZiP) ! I didn't get the Alcar yet as he is quite fussy and I don't want to overwhelm him with too many new things and it seems that the Vit E is the most important thing. Hopefully they will arrive in the next couple of days. I will push on with the exercise and just try and stick to hacking as he is the most forward out hacking and I can just about get out for half an hour before it gets too dark!

 

[jgmbng]

Emden
I am on the same journey, plucked and sent off mane hairs last week and have added Vitamin E and Alcar and will start the mag ox soon. Pony has been under the vet for 2 years for 'colic like' symptoms, lethargy and other problems that are listed as possible PSSM symptoms. Vet always assumed gut problems as being the only cause of his symptoms but after recommendations from other members to have him tested I have gone ahead and also changed his diet.
I will be sooooooo cross if it turns out to be this as I have lost 2 years with him and now have an exclusion for gastrointestinal issues on my insurance.

 

[paddy555]

Emden
I am on the same journey, plucked and sent off mane hairs last week and have added Vitamin E and Alcar and will start the mag ox soon. Pony has been under the vet for 2 years for 'colic like' symptoms, lethargy and other problems that are listed as possible PSSM symptoms. Vet always assumed gut problems as being the only cause of his symptoms but after recommendations from other members to have him tested I have gone ahead and also changed his diet.
I will be sooooooo cross if it turns out to be this as I have lost 2 years with him and now have an exclusion for gastrointestinal issues on my insurance.

mine even managed to go to a horse hospital as an emergency for colic like symptoms. No one even suggested it and I wasted around 4 years before working it out.
Don't forget in addition to high dose vit E warmth in the form of exercise sheets and rugging are very important to some. Mine needs twice the thickness of rug a normal horse would need.

 

[ycbm]

I'm another who had a horse who appeared to be colicking. Kicking the floor, looking round at his stomach, sweating, fretful,etc. But I could hear gut noises. Luckily I found false colic quickly on Google as an EPSM symptom, and since he's QH breeding it made sense immediately.

 

[jgmbng]

mine even managed to go to a horse hospital as an emergency for colic like symptoms. No one even suggested it and I wasted around 4 years before working it out.
Don't forget in addition to high dose vit E warmth in the form of exercise sheets and rugging are very important to some. Mine needs twice the thickness of rug a normal horse would need.

Its so frustrating isn't it.
Hugo has been scoped, scanned,had months of steroids,been wormed umpteen times, had a rectal biopsy and prodded and poked for 2 years with no real answer.

 

[SEL]

I spent a lot of money treating fairly minor ulcers without any improvement in how S ŵas going. It was pure fluke I found out about PSSM -I was reading up about something else on the animal genetics website and with her breeding it made sense.

From various frustrating discussions with vets since diagnosis it does seem to be that they look for a full on tie up rather than the "minor" symptoms. My mare is a stereotypical PSSM case - french draft, struggles with farrier, stiff gait, solid bum muscles, good doer, - but she's never collapsed and started pee'ing brown liquid so I'm told she's not very symptomatic. I'm currently changing vets!

 

[emfen1305]

Still waiting for the results from Animal Genetics, hopefully won't be much longer! Going to start on the pure vitamin E tonight, already started adding salt and magnesium over the weekend. Just been landed with a £250 vets bill from the colic and sedation from when he came back from horspital, I only have £1000 left on my insurance and suspect he will need another scope and more hock injections from this, coupled with working out i've also spent £300+ over the last couple of months to try and get things checked to make sure there is absolutely nothing else wrong and him still not quite feeling himself I'm starting to contemplate just calling it a day I don't want to push him if he isn't right but I don't want to give up on him! I don't have any other horses to ride and having spent 6 months before the hock arthritis not being able to ride either I am a bit fed up of spending £200+ a month and not being able to do what I like! Sorry for the whingy post, just at my wits end with it all!

 

[jgmbng]

I feel your pain. I have 2 field ornaments.
The first was diagnosed with hock problems, followed swiftly by annular ligament problems both within 6 months of purchase. He also has sweetitch and COPD.
Bought Hugo 2 years ago and still don't really know what is wrong with him (also awaiting results from mane testing). We bought a property with land to realise our dream and its just not worked out that way. It has been a big expense for little return (love both ponies but didn't want a field of broken ones !)
I started the vitamin E 2 weeks ago and am now introducing Alcar a bit at a time as he has rather a delicate tummy.
I only ever wanted a horse for hacking but neither are capable at the mo.

 

[SEL]

Still waiting for the results from Animal Genetics, hopefully won't be much longer! Going to start on the pure vitamin E tonight, already started adding salt and magnesium over the weekend. Just been landed with a £250 vets bill from the colic and sedation from when he came back from horspital, I only have £1000 left on my insurance and suspect he will need another scope and more hock injections from this, coupled with working out i've also spent £300+ over the last couple of months to try and get things checked to make sure there is absolutely nothing else wrong and him still not quite feeling himself I'm starting to contemplate just calling it a day I don't want to push him if he isn't right but I don't want to give up on him! I don't have any other horses to ride and having spent 6 months before the hock arthritis not being able to ride either I am a bit fed up of spending £200+ a month and not being able to do what I like! Sorry for the whingy post, just at my wits end with it all!

Whinge away! My PSSM mare also has hock arthritis and is currently not rideable, so you have my sympathy. I'm having a 2nd opinion before we give her steroid injections into her hocks, including having her back x-rayed. I've already got one pasture pet, so she was supposed to be my ridden horse. I'd be happy if she gets to the stage where she can hack without issue - I've given up hoping for anything else!

 

[emfen1305]

I feel your pain. I have 2 field ornaments.
The first was diagnosed with hock problems, followed swiftly by annular ligament problems both within 6 months of purchase. He also has sweetitch and COPD.
Bought Hugo 2 years ago and still don't really know what is wrong with him (also awaiting results from mane testing). We bought a property with land to realise our dream and its just not worked out that way. It has been a big expense for little return (love both ponies but didn't want a field of broken ones !)
I started the vitamin E 2 weeks ago and am now introducing Alcar a bit at a time as he has rather a delicate tummy.
I only ever wanted a horse for hacking but neither are capable at the mo.

Sorry to hear that, I suppose I should count myself lucky that he is sound and that I can actually ride but I don't enjoy it as I am consistently worried about him not being right! I like a good hack don't get me wrong but I am running out of places to go and I also like to school and jump (I bought him to be an all rounder). Currently avoiding any schooling and jumping by telling myself that he hacking will make it all better but really I think I'm just worried about going back in the arena as I know he isn't going to enjoy it which really makes me think I should sell him as a happy hacker and get myself something that will do what I want. It's so difficult, I would be heart broken if I had to but it's very selfish of me to keep pushing him when he clearly doesn't enjoy it, I've been trying for almost 2 years now!

ETA: Have you seen any difference with the Vit E yet?

 

[emfen1305]

Whinge away! My PSSM mare also has hock arthritis and is currently not rideable, so you have my sympathy. I'm having a 2nd opinion before we give her steroid injections into her hocks, including having her back x-rayed. I've already got one pasture pet, so she was supposed to be my ridden horse. I'd be happy if she gets to the stage where she can hack without issue - I've given up hoping for anything else!

Oh I really feel like I shouldn't moan, at least I can hack but he just mooches along and constantly needs kicking forward. Every time we go round a corner he turns for home and when we finally do go back it's the only time he really looks like he's enjoying himself! Just so difficult to know whether to keep ploughing money into him (next step is an oesteopath) or to just call it quits and either retire him or sell him to a light hacking home!

 

[jgmbng]

I don't think I have seen a difference yet, I started Alcar and Salt together last week but he had a bout of the runs shortly after so I have left them both out of his feed for a few days and started just the Alcar again this week.
He lives out 24/7 so I only have his demeanor to go off at the moment until I can bring myself to start riding again, last time he just felt so bad I haven't tacked up since !
He seems to have some days of being a normal rising 6 year old pony and others when he is quite quiet.
Just read your last post...yours sounds just like mine out hacking, only walks on when he knows we are going home but is so slow otherwise.

 

[emfen1305]

I don't think I have seen a difference yet, I started Alcar and Salt together last week but he had a bout of the runs shortly after so I have left them both out of his feed for a few days and started just the Alcar again this week.
He lives out 24/7 so I only have his demeanor to go off at the moment until I can bring myself to start riding again, last time he just felt so bad I haven't tacked up since !
He seems to have some days of being a normal rising 6 year old pony and others when he is quite quiet.
Just read your last post...yours sounds just like mine out hacking, only walks on when he knows we are going home but is so slow otherwise.

I didn't get the alcar as of yet as previously mentioned vet bills, trying to save as much as i can so i can eat some human food this month!

I do try and really get on at him so we don't just mooch along, I am quite firm. It doesn't help that he actively looks for things to spook at though, he spends more time looking around for scary things which means we don't actually walk forward in straight line, he has always been like this though! The reason I started to suspect issues was the fact that he no longer wanted to even trot on a stubble field, let alone go for a good blast, I have never had a horse that doesn't enjoy going on the stubbles, even my friend's 13hh traditional gypsy cob who hadn't been ridden properly in almost a year chucked in a little bronc and squeal as soon as we started cantering! I'm just at a loss, my friends say I should sell and buy something more suitable as it would be better for us both but my heart breaks every time I think about it!

 

[jgmbng]

Fingers crossed we both get an answer soon.

 

[emfen1305]

Just got the results back from Animal Genetics - he is n/n for PSSM 1 which is good news I suppose. I don't really know what the next steps are, I know that muscle biopsy is the only way to test for PSSM 2 but from what i've read most people just try the diet to see if it helps. He is still on the ready mash fibre and balancer, I have added salt, 10g per day of magnesium, 10ml (10000iu of vit e oil as of yesterday) and reintroduced micronised linseed. He is on ad lib haylage (hay really isn't an option at the mo but will continue to look into it) and pretty poor grazing. Aside the Alcar, is there anything else I should look at or just continue with this?

 

[SEL]

The type 2 crowd on the FB forum are into protein supplementation, but I'd stick with your dietary changes for a few weeks first and see if they make any difference.

The ONLY thing I was grateful for after getting results back from AG was that i had an answer. Sadly, unless you're prepared to send blood to the US, I think it's going to be a while until commercial testing for the other muscle myopathies is available in the UK.

 

[emfen1305]

The type 2 crowd on the FB forum are into protein supplementation, but I'd stick with your dietary changes for a few weeks first and see if they make any difference.

The ONLY thing I was grateful for after getting results back from AG was that i had an answer. Sadly, unless you're prepared to send blood to the US, I think it's going to be a while until commercial testing for the other muscle myopathies is available in the UK.

Yeah I had seen something about pure protein supplements etc but I get a bit worried about overloading him with too much stuff, i think what i feed a the moment is quite safe in terms of him getting rid of what he doesn't need!

Given that he is currently sound, eating and drinking normally and able to go out (touch wood!) I don't want to go down the expensive route of getting blood sent. I will continue to keep him moving and increase his workload to see how he reacts to this. His posture has been improving and i've been very vigilant with his stretches, warm up and warm downs and the only thing that concerns me now are his flanks which are still quite sunken but he has always looked like this so I don't know whether it is a bit of a conformation thing!

 

[jgmbng]

My results are back too....also negative, which means I still don't have an answer .
I am going to carry on with the PSSM diet for a few weeks, but back to theory number 100028 which is one before the PSSM theory, which is that he has an intolerance to 'something' on my land.

 

[paddy555]

My results are back too....also negative, which means I still don't have an answer .
I am going to carry on with the PSSM diet for a few weeks, but back to theory number 100028 which is one before the PSSM theory, which is that he has an intolerance to 'something' on my land.

sorry bit lost. A negative result means not PSSM1 but could therefore still be type 2?

 

[emfen1305]

My results are back too....also negative, which means I still don't have an answer .
I am going to carry on with the PSSM diet for a few weeks, but back to theory number 100028 which is one before the PSSM theory, which is that he has an intolerance to 'something' on my land.

such a bittersweet result! I dont think any of us would wish anything on our horses of course but it would be nice to have something concrete to go off rather than "he could just be like this" or "it might have just been his hocks". When you know your horse isn't right it's very frustrating! I hope you find out the issue!

 

[emfen1305]

sorry bit lost. A negative result means not PSSM1 but could therefore still be type 2?

Yes unfortunately. I think most people (especially in the UK) just test for type 1 as it is cheap and easy. If the results come back negative people will still feed as if it is type 2 to see if it makes a difference. If it does, the assumption is the horse has type 2 and if no difference whatsover then either something else going on that isn't PSSM or something else is aggravating it. As far as I'm aware the only way they can test for type 2 is muscle biopsy or blood as SEL commented so I don't think many people, including myself, go down that route unless the symptoms are really bad i guess..

 

[jgmbng]

I am aware that it still could be type 2, this is why I am carrying on with the diet
Always someone waiting to pounce !

 

[jgmbng]

such a bittersweet result! I dont think any of us would wish anything on our horses of course but it would be nice to have something concrete to go off rather than "he could just be like this" or "it might have just been his hocks". When you know your horse isn't right it's very frustrating! I hope you find out the issue!

You too....its been almost two years up to now, he is going to be a veteran at this rate !

 

[SEL]

Have either of your vets done a blood test for selenium levels? Lack of iodine can also apparently cause symptoms similar to tying up. Not sure what the levels are like in your soil.