PSSM starting point

[Bellaboo18]

I've got a (very lovely) mare that I think is showing signs of PSSM.

Sorry, I know there are lots of threads on this subject and I've been reading them all but would still like to ask;

Where would you start if you suspected you had a horse with PSSM? I'm thinking of just keeping her warm and adding a high dose of vitamin e and seeing if there's any change. Does that sound like a good idea?

Is it worth testing or should I just see how she responds?

She's out 24/7 with a shelter but has a stable if needed as a last resort - extreme weather/flooding etc.

I suggested PSSM to my vet who humoured me but I think she thought it an odd suggestion.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm thinking of just keeping her warm and adding a high dose of vitamin e and seeing if there's any change. Does that sound like a good idea?

Spot on .

This is just what I did with my mare, without great expectations of success, and the improvement was rapid.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Spot on .

This is just what I did with my mare, without great expectations of success, and the improvement was rapid.

Thank you ?

 

[shortstuff99]

It would also be worth doing the PSSM type 1 test as that is inexpensive and reliable.

 

[Bellaboo18]

It would also be worth doing the PSSM type 1 test as that is inexpensive and reliable.

Thank you, I'll do that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My mare tested -ve for PSSM1 after the hair test. This was 3 years ago, there are more tests available now, but as I have nailed her management, I haven’t bothered.

Regular vet agrees with my observational diagnosis, but would have preferred to confirm it by muscle biopsy. I didn’t proceed with that as the biopsy is quite invasive and I had her symptoms under control anyway by then.

 

[Bellaboo18]

My mare tested -ve for PSSM1 after the hair test. This was 3 years ago, there are more tests available now, but as I have nailed her management, I haven’t bothered.

Regular vet agrees with my observational diagnosis, but would have preferred to confirm it by muscle biopsy. I didn’t proceed with that as the biopsy is quite invasive and I had her symptoms under control anyway by then.

I think I'll test for PSSM1 more out of curiosity than anything, I imagine it'll come back negative but it's not expensive.

Like you, I wouldn't want to do a muscle biopsy.

If I can get her comfortable and see an improvement then I'll be happy and won't feel the need to do anymore tests.

 

[ycbm]

Mine failed the type 1 test but produced a fairly spectacular response to vitamin E and oil in behaviour changes and an equally spectacular balloon-popping muscle deflation when I swapped oil for alcar.

I had another horse I suspected who tested negative, didn't have a full range of symptoms and never needed anything but vitamin E in moderate/low doses.

It's frustrating, but its horses for courses, but high vit E is a must, I think.

I would definitely test for type 1.
.

 

[BBP]

I think I'll test for PSSM1 more out of curiosity than anything, I imagine it'll come back negative but it's not expensive.

Like you, I wouldn't want to do a muscle biopsy.

If I can get her comfortable and see an improvement then I'll be happy and won't feel the need to do anymore tests.

I had a biopsy done, didn’t want to really but the PSSM management wasn’t working and he didn’t fit the stereotype, and they didn’t have all the tests we have now. Although it wasn’t fun to watch (they let me sit in), he was sedated and local anaesthetic in his butt muscle. Healed up beautifully and it gave us much better information than the blood tests at the time.

 

[SEL]

Neither of my type 1s had a miraculous response to vitamin E - but removing grass definitely helps.

What breed is your horse OP?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Neither of my type 1s had a miraculous response to vitamin E - but removing grass definitely helps.

What breed is your horse OP?

I actually don't know, she was born in France and her passport is very odd it just says unknown pedigree. There's no sire or dam.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I would certainly start as you have suggested, and try to keep diet as low sugar and starch as possible. I echo the others in saying the hair test for type 1 is cheap and easy. I wouldn't say vitamin e had any sort of miraculous effect on mine either but he showed so little in terms of other symptoms (minus an awful, full blown tie up) I wasn't surprised, but I have kept him on a decent dose just in case.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Thanks for the replies.
I've ordered vitamin e from Forage Plus. I'll do the test for PSSM1, put a track system up and keep her warm. I've just ordered a Rambo summer series after reading previous threads.
I'll update the thread with any progress.

 

[Bellaboo18]

The vitamin e arrived yesterday so it went in her evening feed. She wasn't keen on it, she ate it but there was a lot of head shaking and sniffing (same this morning).
Has anyone elses horse found it unpalatable?

 

[BBP]

Mine won’t touch the powdered forage plus stuff, it’s still sitting in my cupboard somewhere. He’s fine with the equimins liquid one though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Mind all eat the powdered Forageplus natural vit E ok, even the drama diva senior mare who can be picky. Maybe try sneaking small quantities in and build it up.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Mine won’t touch the powdered forage plus stuff, it’s still sitting in my cupboard somewhere. He’s fine with the equimins liquid one though.

Thank you, that's really helpful.
I'll persevere for now but if she starts to refuse it I'll get the liquid and might just get that next time anyway. She's normally the least fussy horse!

 

[BBP]

Thank you, that's really helpful.
I'll persevere for now but if she starts to refuse it I'll get the liquid and might just get that next time anyway. She's normally the least fussy horse!

Mine is super fussy. As suggested above maybe just try with a tiny amount and build up. The powder is easier to manage if you can get her to eat it, the liquid can be a pain when it gets cold.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Mind all eat the powdered Forageplus natural vit E ok, even the drama diva senior mare who can be picky. Maybe try sneaking small quantities in and build it up.

Thanks. I did go straight for two scoops which I wouldn't normally do, I was so eager to see a change. I'll put a bit less in this evening

 

[Bellaboo18]

Thought I'd update as our PSSM Type 1 test came back negative today.
So, think I'm just going to stick to what we're doing for now. Low sugar/starch diet, out in the day on a track, in at night on oldish hay. Keep the vitamin e, Mag ox and oil. Keep her warm. She does something everyday and is having regular physio.
She's definitely got more energy now, mainly since starting the vitamin e and is happier in herself.
I'm not keen on doing a muscle biopsy as I don't think it would change management (?) but can always come back to that.
She's a lovely little mare and I think just needs a bit of extra help to stay comfortable.

Thanks for everyone's help

 

[rextherobber]

Glad you are making progress, I have been doing the same with my mare since March, she has improved hugely, but am now at the point where I'd like to know, partly to tweak management to make her even better, partly to prepare myself if it's bad, and partly as was toying with the idea of getting a foal from her ( I adore her, would love to have her baby as my next riding horse, but obviously out of the question if she's positive) I'm getting the pssm panel test done by CAG in Germany ( about £250 I think) which is a hair sample, same as the type 1 test you have already had done. If you haven't already done so, the fbook pssm groups are excellent, very informative and supportive.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Glad you are making progress, I have been doing the same with my mare since March, she has improved hugely, but am now at the point where I'd like to know, partly to tweak management to make her even better, partly to prepare myself if it's bad, and partly as was toying with the idea of getting a foal from her ( I adore her, would love to have her baby as my next riding horse, but obviously out of the question if she's positive) I'm getting the pssm panel test done by CAG in Germany ( about £250 I think) which is a hair sample, same as the type 1 test you have already had done. If you haven't already done so, the fbook pssm groups are excellent, very informative and supportive.

Is the panal test reliable? I didn't think it was a validated test.
Yes I've joined the Facebook groups although sometimes it does feel like information overload!

Interested to hear the symptoms you're experiencing with your mare?

 

[rextherobber]

I don't know about the validation of the test, but seeing other people's results on the groups. and their response to them, I thought there wasn't much (apart from money!) to lose.. I have spoken to my vet about biopsy, and neither of us were keen on going down that route. My new vet admits to not knowing much about pssm, but is enthusiastic and interested, and helpful, so I'm loads better off than I was. I've owned my girl for 5 years, since she was 4. She hadn't had the best start, was thin, wary, headshy. With hindsight, much of her behaviour could easily be explained by pssm (I'd never heard of it, and it was never suggested by my vet). She was randomly incredibly tense and explosive, she toe dragged on her hinds, had canter issues, reared, was extremely aggressive on the ground, (was a "joke" that I never had issues catching her, as she went for me!). I had the vet out loads for vague loss of performance type problems, which always ended with a Bute trial, which made no difference. She could appear lame on one trot diagonal, then perfectly sound minutes later. She had problems coming down hill. She was very nappy. She was difficult to mount.... There's almost certainly more that I've forgotten, and she didn't do all of these things together, or all the time, there were periods when she was relatively normal (again, with hindsight, corresponding with favourable weather, grass conditions) and some of the things, like toe dragging, she would do once a year, same month each time. She sounds awful, when you list things, (and I think, why didn't we scope for ulcers? But I guess we trust our vets judgement.) I moved yards a little while ago, and noticed that she was different (better) at this new yard, then her physio suggested pssm. So I did a bit of reading and started her on the management systems advised in the groups. As this epiphany coincided with the pandemic, I only spoke to the vet about it this week. (Incidentally, was enthusiastic about the idea of the CAG test ) And she has been loads better. Doing the long warm up definitely helps. What does yours do??

 

[skint1]

Can I ask what symptoms your horse(s) showed that led you to suspect PSSM? I am thinking along these lines for a horse of mine

oops never mind I just read the last post which answered the question for me, thank you!

 

[Bellaboo18]

Can I ask what symptoms your horse(s) showed that led you to suspect PSSM? I am thinking along these lines for a horse of mine

oops never mind I just read the last post which answered the question for me, thank you!

My mare has slightly different symptoms to the above...
She gets tight all over but especially behind the saddle area.
She's quite lethargic but less so on a warm day.
Girthy.
Leans against the stable wall, like she's shifting weight (again less so when hot) **This was/is my biggest concern.
Takes a bit to warm up, is sluggish but then once warmed up moves beautifully. Never actually lame.

She was a successful showjumper with no known problems, landed in an unsuitable home and was abandoned in a field.

With the above symptoms she went for a work up and nothing significant was found. The vet said its so strange, it's as if she hurts all over but we can't find anything. She also said it's strange to think of her as such a successful showjumper when on presentation she doesn't want to do anything, she just wants to be left alone.

I have a slightly different experience to the vets as with me at home she'll do anything to please but she can look uncomfortable (facial expressions) She's never actually shown any undesirable behaviour but I think she's very stoic.

 

[Bellaboo18]

To add to the above with the vitamin e she's not as tight, has more energy and isn't shifting her weight in the stable as of often but we're not quite there yet.

 

[skint1]

Thanks, this is really interesting. My mare has some of the same behaviours as you've described above, so I may pursue this with my vet along with some other routes.

She's been scoped and treated for ulcers and is currently off ridden work, doing in hand walks and pole exercises as she's really unhappy about being saddled and has pain through the SI area/pelvis/hocks and looks stiff, needsa while to get going, though she's generally happy with the groundwork though. She was really hard to get up to a nice condition despite being an ID, and even now she looks really weak behind, sometimes she looks like she's "lost" her back end.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Thanks, this is really interesting. My mare has some of the same behaviours as you've described above, so I may pursue this with my vet along with some other routes.

She's been scoped and treated for ulcers and is currently off ridden work, doing in hand walks and pole exercises as she's really unhappy about being saddled and has pain through the SI area/pelvis/hocks and looks stiff, needsa while to get going, though she's generally happy with the groundwork though. She was really hard to get up to a nice condition despite being an ID, and even now she looks really weak behind, sometimes she looks like she's "lost" her back end.

We're doing the same, poles, in-hand exercises and regular physio as she just isn't happy with having a saddle on at the moment.
I'd be interested to hear how you get on if you follow the pssm route

 

[rextherobber]

Yes! The weak behind look! Mine ID x TB

 

[skint1]

I wonder if my physio is thinking along these lines, when my horse was last seen in July, having backslid from significant progress with inhand rehab work, I was advised to ensure she was kept warm. When I did used to ride her she often displayed "cold backed" type behaviour for the first 10-15 mins. Anyway, sorry to de-rail this thread it's just been a bit a of a lightbulb moment for me. Thank you!