Psuedomonas anyone? so fed up now

Dizzykizzy

Dizzykizzy

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Anyone got any experience of this evil bacteria?
All 3 of my dogs are passing it between each other but Diddly dog is worst and has had a black goo discharge since last September.
She has been on every type of oral antibiotic available, every type of ear drops and still we can't clear it. Last week she had it washed out under sedation but 3 days later it is oozing black goo again. We can't put anything in her ear at the moment as the membrane has ruptured.
Please somebody give me some encouragement, I do trust my vet but I am starting to wonder if she should be referring her on to someone else as she seems to be failing. She is booked in to have it washed out again next week and I think she plans to do this up to 4 times. Diddly dog was very distressed being left at the vets.
 
I had a horse with it years ago, referred to vet hospital, bit different as it was on his lungs, but treated with nebulizer and then turned out and recovered completely.
But I definitely would get a referal to a specialist.
 
My parents Newfy had it- can't remember what drops she had to have tho. Will check tonight.
Also i would think you need to try and separate them as its just going to keep passing between them.
Its a hard one to shift- like with people.
 
Its a nightmare to treat! I assume there has been a culture and sensitivity done? Its often resistant to multiple antibiotics and a lot of common ear drops. Sometimes the only option for a cure is surgery I'm afraid :-(
 
Thanks both, it would be impossible to separate them and I don't think any of them would tolerate being kept separately. We have to walk them together and we do flyball with them (vet has said this is ok because they aren't "infectious" as such) so they have to travel together.
Problem is the swabs show they have different resistances. My vet has consulted with someone else but the treatment they suggested hasn't worked either.
 
What a nightmare. I suppose different antibiotics for each dog then. Aggressive cleaning with either hibiscrub or (might sound odd) white vinegar. But if its not settling sometimes the only option is an ear canal ablation which is fairly hefty surgery with lots of potential pitfalls. What sort of dogs are they? Sounds very unlucky for them all to be affected!
 
thanks ann-jen, I am preparing myself for that option too. I think if we could get rid of it in Diddly dog we could sort the other two as they don't get it as bad. I am scared for them though, it is evil :-(
We have used white vinegar but Diddly could not tolerate the pain it caused her due to membrane being ruptured. What are the pitfalls of the vertical ablation?
They are GWPs and Diddly is a Korthals Griffon.
 
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Don't do so many vertical canal ablations these day unless there was an obvious growth/tumour in that part of the canal. A lateral wall resection will help in cases where there is disease of the vertical canal but the horizontal canal is relatively normal. But it sounds like the middle ear must be affected in your chap's case if the ear drum is ruptured? In which case a LWR probably wouldn't work, nor a vertical ablation. Sadly sounds like you are heading towards a total ear canal ablation :-(
 
Has the vet suggested one of the broad spectrum antibiotics usually reserved for last-ditch- effort treatments? Gentamicin or a more recent generation antibiotic? One would think that such a drug would be administered right after the lavage. A friend had a Golden Retriever that had the resection. Apparently, the gunk within the ear drains out through an opening made below the area where the ear sets on to the base of the skull. It is a major procedure.
 
ann-jen, you obviously know a lot about these things, can you recommend a specialist to me? I guess total ablation means the whole lot so she will be deaf in that ear? Fortunately she has managed to keep it out of the other ear. Poor baby dog, she isn't even 2 yet :-(
 
Yes she would be deaf in that ear. What a shame at that age. Its usually an end stage problem for dogs that have had on going ear problems for years. I'm not sure of specialists in your area. I suppose the Rolls Royce treatment would be to go to a university teaching hospital.... I guess liverpool would be the closest.... or to someone with a certificate in small animal surgery. A lot of first opinion vets do them now though. We probably do about 5 or 6 a year here whereas a university hospital probably do that number or more monthly. Its an op that is not without its share of complications especially with wound healing if its not possible to get the infection well controlled first :-/ Sometimes it pays to go somewhere where these procedures are looked at as "routine" ;-)
 
Sorry Rutland, I didn't see your post. I think she has had getimicin, she is on an oral antibiotic now, I will check what it is later.
ann-jen, are you a vet?
I asked my vet about surgery a couple of weeks back, she said we were a long way from that as luckily their ear tissue has not become inflamed or damaged yet. She did say she has done procedures involving surgery on ears so she may want to attempt herself, from what you are saying maybe this won't be the best option. She also talked about making a drain hole so the goo can escape rather than collect.
I am feeling fairly frantic now, I read on another forum where the bacteria spread into a dogs jaw bone and ultimately she couldn't eat so was pts. Is there a risk of this? Or it getting into her brain?
My poor poor baby dog, how on earth did this happen?
 
Yes I'm a vet and we seem to have an above average amount of pseudomonas at our practice! Speak to your vet. It sounds like she is talking about a TECA with bulla osteotomy. The main possible complication is damaging a nerve that passes through the middle ear so afterwards it might lead to drooping of the lip on that side although thankfully this is quite rare. And the better the surgeon the less likely it is. Discuss it with your vet. It's possible she's done plenty and can put your mind at rest. I've never seen any have problems with infection in the bone before. And definitely not to the brain! The only complication I've had is wound breakdown and having to resuture the wound which is mainly cos you're operating on an infected site. It is painful surgery tho so sometimes need to stay in overnight to keep them comfy initially. Hope you get sorted one way or another x
 
Thank you so much for your input. I will speak to her after the irrigation this week.
I wonder why you are seeing so much, I guess as it gets more resistant it will become more prevalent :-(
I am praying for my little doggy that she does not have to go through this.
 
Pseudomonas infections are so difficult to get rid of. You may yet be able to avoid surgery. I know the soft tissue surgery specialist I work with will sometimes use these earwicks for cases like these with some success. I'd suggest asking your vet for referral to either a soft tissue specialist or dermatology specialist if things aren't improving.

Best of luck - do let us know how it all goes.
 
Thank you Karen, I got very excited for a moment then until reading to the bottom it says the tympanic membrane has to be intact which Freya's isn't at the moment :-(
It is apparently healing but could take 2 months or more.
Thank you so much for your input though, I really appreciate it.
 
Depending on which antibiotics her infections is sensitive/resistant to there are some antibiotics which can still be applied into the ear even when the membrane is ruptured - sometimes this means making a solution with the injectable form of the drug rather than the actual ear drops but it can work. Worth investigating :)
 
I will discuss with my vet though she gets a bit cross with me as I think she thinks I am questioning her judgement. Well actually nearly 5 months on I AM questioning whether we are doing the right things and whether she is asking the right people.
She did research what could be put in and said only the white vinegar which Freya couldn't tolerate as it was too painful for her and for me watching her crying and banging her head on the floor :-(
 
karen_c said:
Depending on which antibiotics her infections is sensitive/resistant to there are some antibiotics which can still be applied into the ear even when the membrane is ruptured - sometimes this means making a solution with the injectable form of the drug rather than the actual ear drops but it can work. Worth investigating :)
Click to expand...

Ear cleaning solutions containing Triz EDTA kan be used even if the membrane is ruptured. Such solutions can be spiked with e.g. the antibiotic Baytril (provided the infection is sensitive to this) and also steroids to reduce the inflammation. This could be combined with oral antibiotics (again e.g. Baytril if appropriate). Ear(s) should be flushed at least once daily - and when dealing with Pseudomonas treatment probably has to be continued for at minimum of 2-3 months! (Until well after the point when your vet no longer can find bacteria on cytology from the ear canal.)

Here's an american link that talks about a similar problem to yours, OP. However, I am not sure whether those Synotic drops are available in the UK, but in my experience a Triz EDTA solution + antibiotics + steroids normally do the trick.
http://www.justanswer.com/veterinary/5oryr-dog-psedomonas-ear-infection-need-know.html

As mentioned in this link - don't forget there is always an underlying cause to recurrent ear infections! Your vet should also be looking into this - until the actual cause is addressed the problems will just come back.

Good luck!
 
Try raw organic coconut oil in their ears, melt it first and apply, it is very soothing.
My friends have been using it on their GSD who has bad ears, seems to help.
It's anti bacterial and anti fungus, it's natural, won't harm the ears and often works where anti biotics fail.
I'm pm'd you with some information on it, hope the dogs get better soon,
Oz
 
Thank you for your PM CdeM, I am replying on here to see what others think.

My vet is actually a homeopathic vet and does not believe in throwing antibiotics at everything thankfully. In this case it has proved to be necessary even though there is obviously resistance. I discussed sometime ago with her the merits of feeding coconut oil and she said there had not been enough reserach done yet, it is the new wonder food but long term nobody actuallly knows yet. I already feed my dogs a raw diet. Since I have to trust my vet (I have made that commitment by choosing her over many other vets) I am not willing to use coconut oil at the moment and certainly not inside an ear with a ruptured membrane. I am going to discuss the possibility of manuka honey which also has antibacterial properties but I will not be putting anything in my dogs ears without a veterinary say so. The damage is bad enough already, we could be heading for major surgery I am not prepared to risk anything which could further compromise the situation.
Synne, I will look into the solution you suggest and discuss with my vet. Thank you for the link, off to have a read now.
 
Using as little antibiotics as possible is all well and good - one does not have to be a homeopathic vet to agree with that - but, as you say, sometimes it is necessary, and a pseudomonas infection is certainly one of those cases...

I'm posting another link for you - it is about one of the triz EDTA-solutions I mentioned earlier. Not the only one on the market, nor necessarily the best one, but definitely one that I have good experience with in cases such as yours. (Another one is Before X from the same company.) (These products are also used and highly recommended by the leading dermatologist in this country.) As you can read for yourself, one of the benefits is that the solution works in a way that makes the antibiotics more efficient.
http://www.vetruus.com/assets/downloads/otodine_in_vivo.pdf

I agree with you - do not put anything down your dog's ear without your vet's approval. However, if your vet has not mentioned anything about the options that I have stated, they certainly need to be discussed and possibly tried before major surgery!
 
This is nothing to do with dogs but I've experience with psudo every day my hubby has cystic fibrosis and he has luckily only got two strains of it on his lungs, I say luckily be ause a lot of cf sufferers have more.

Psudo does a lot of damage and its long term damage the only way to fight it and maintain it is by antibiotics. ( hubby has to have a full two week course of iv antibiotics every time it flairs up )

To find out what strain it is you have to have a culture has your vet done this?

Fingers crossed you get the right antibiotics once you do you will be amazed how quick the results are.

Sadly he will never get rid of it now no matter how much drugs he has however if you catch it early enough it is possible to get rid of it but there is a chance of it coming back.
 
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Thank you again Synne, I have emailed those links to my vet, will see what she says.
Sorry to hear about your husband Dingle, that is awful for him. All dogs have had several cultures done from their ears but still we seem to fail to find the right treatment. I am terrified of the long term consequences of not clearing this up sooner rather than later. The 2 big dogs have both shown positive for it though they have not had the goo discharge that Freya has. I think left untreated they soon will and the thought of all 3 of them having to have major surgery makes me quake :-(
 
well done dizzy kizzyfor saying that you won't use anything without vets advice.
re;the info you sent me cd - so totally untested in dog ears then. when there are multiple licensed, TESTED products that aren't going to do any harm. please anyone reading this thread when it comes to yuor dogs ears, don't just shove any old thing in there.
 
SusieT said:
well done dizzy kizzyfor saying that you won't use anything without vets advice.
re;the info you sent me cd - so totally untested in dog ears then. when there are multiple licensed, TESTED products that aren't going to do any harm. please anyone reading this thread when it comes to yuor dogs ears, don't just shove any old thing in there.
Click to expand...



Your right, they are no tests yet available that I know of on the effects of coconut oil on or in dogs however, I use it regularly on my 3, my friends use it regularly on their dogs and I use it myself, it's one of the most purest natural oils available, it's very gentle.


http://www.coconut-oil-in-a-nutshell.com/coconut-oil-for-your-dog.html

http://www.naturepacific.com/contents/en-us/d168.html

http://www.petside.com/article/coconut-oil-miracle-jar-dogs

http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au/NiulifeCoconutOil/Health/PetCorner.php

http://coconutoilcooking.com/coconut-oil-blog-posts/top-5-coconut-oil-uses-for-pets/

Oz
 
Have had communication with my vet today, she is going to try the Triz-EDTA and antibiotic treatment after her second irrigation tomorrow. She was very understanding about my frustration and fear and is willing to refer us anytime I am ready but she thinks that road will undoubtedly lead to surgery which she is still hoping to avoid.
She has already ruled out Baytril, gentomycin ad marbocylin(sp) as the bacteria is resistant to all of these. They are currently on Ronaxan but I'm not sure if that will change tomorrow.
Healing vibes for my doglets would be most appreciated.
 
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