Psychological issues through abuse.

I just used to sit with mine in the stable. Just read a book or something. Curiosity got the better of her and she'd creep over.
But be careful not to creep around him - just be normal. Some people are soooo quiet and tip-toey around them, that the slightest 'normal' thing (like putting a rug on as u would with a regular horse) just causes them to flip out again and regress.
 
Just walk around them as normal and talk in a normal voice - encourage other people to as well. And find their itchy spot! :)
Obviously it all depends to what degree your horse is problematic. Mine was super-feral!!
Are there certain things that set him off?
 
Time is a great healer, along with being calm and consistant.

You could also try some rescue remedy too
 
itsonlyme said:
Just walk around them as normal and talk in a normal voice - encourage other people to as well. And find their itchy spot! :)
Obviously it all depends to what degree your horse is problematic. Mine was super-feral!!
Are there certain things that set him off?
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He is fine in the stable now and tied up outside, its just when we go out in the school. He has had some serious treatment. I was completely withdrawn into himself when we got him. I have to try and back him this summer!! He is 17hh IDxTB, King of Diamonds line, 8 yr old. The issues are really deep seated!!:(
 
Can you walk him out with other horses and try and get him to relax that way, before you try him in the school again. Sounds like you are doing a good job so far.
 
kirstykate said:
He is fine in the stable now and tied up outside, its just when we go out in the school. He has had some serious treatment. I was completely withdrawn into himself when we got him. I have to try and back him this summer!! He is 17hh IDxTB, King of Diamonds line, 8 yr old. The issues are really deep seated!!:(
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Bet his stunning!!! What a shame though, do you know in detail the type of abuse? I can't rate Jenny Rolfe's books/DVD's enough. I know she's got mostly Spanish horses, but the groundwork and communication with the horse will be the best thing for your chap.
Its fab for creating a connection, understanding and trust between horse and rider, can't rate it enough. Loose schooling is useful, but you have to use techniques to get the horse interested in you... Almost so you can lunge them without the lines, but time is definitely a healer when the correct work is put in. Good luck!
 
How about ignore the school as far as work goes, just turn him out with another horse, feed him in there, do your day to day stuff grooming etc in there etc? Start nearer to it so he's outside it first etc.
For backing, I'd be inclined to do it in a paddock or the yard instead to get him established first, then move onto cracking things in the school :)
 
Slowly slowly slowly but be normal. There is no use tiptoeing around because theorist normal thing and it sends them off again.

Try and do join up so he becomes your friend.

I have a lovely Arab mare that was badly abused, broken ,(more than backed) lunged until she dropped. Ill fitting saddle and bit. Her teeth had never been done and her feet were bad. She had untreated cuts on her front legs and a hole in her knee.when I first tried to mount Hershey would just rear up.

I started by taking her for walks (in hand) around our woods then slowly retaught her to long rein and lunge

She was a bit submissive in the field but my others taught her to play. I would also play games with her in the field , chase ,football and even taught her to bend around poles (with her following me)

When it came to rebacking her this was gone slowly too. My first ride on her was around the school on a lead rope with my friend on the ground giving her support. We then went down the lane and back again with me on her and a friend leading her. Each week we progressed to walks in the woods on the lead and then with the lead rope round her neck (friend on the ground still) and then we started to go out with one of my others ,again for a short ride.

When it came to riding out on my own we would start off with another horse encouraging her to go in the front ,we have a small square that we started to use. We would come back from a ride and either my other horse or the mare would do the square ( leaving and rejoining each other .

It took me about eight months to do all this ( the mare was 9 yrs old when I started)

As she was to be an Endurance horse we needed to be able to ride alone.

Today ,nine years on, she is fine ,although still preferes company , she will ride happily go on her own. She has turned into a lovely sweet girl .

Patience is what it takes, but be normal around them
 
Imogen_ said:
Bet his stunning!!! What a shame though, do you know in detail the type of abuse? I can't rate Jenny Rolfe's books/DVD's enough. I know she's got mostly Spanish horses, but the groundwork and communication with the horse will be the best thing for your chap.
Its fab for creating a connection, understanding and trust between horse and rider, can't rate it enough. Loose schooling is useful, but you have to use techniques to get the horse interested in you... Almost so you can lunge them without the lines, but time is definitely a healer when the correct work is put in. Good luck!
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I already loose school and he lunges, but he is not happy or confident in himself.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3301212580210&set=a.1260408361380.37899.1564803449&type=3
 
Same as everyone else really.

Take things slowly, be consistant, loads of ground work (even if thats just going for walks in-hand or walk him once round the school in hand and come straight out again,once hes calm and relaxed doing this you can gradually build it up to doing a bit more in the school i.e. halt transitions, moving away from you etc) to build up his confidence with you and dont tip-toe around him, as others have said just act normally with him as you would do any other horse.

I had a pony in the past who was abused/ neglected and it took months to get him to trust people in particular men. But with time and patience he came round.

Make sure everything has been checked aswell i.e. back, teeth, tack etc (as you may already have done) just to eliminate any pain related issues.

You will get there with him :)
 
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A qualified equine behaviourist is the horse equivalent of a psychologist - no couch needed ;)

They can assess the horse, work out what the issues are, and using similar principles to working with people with phobias or anxiety disorders, they can work out with you a programme to overcome the horse's fears and build their confidence.

And if they suggest join-up, they're unlikely to be a qualified behaviourist ;) - never try this with a horse who's fearful or has been abused. Debbie Marsden in Scotland might be worth speaking to.
 
Brightbay said:
A qualified equine behaviourist is the horse equivalent of a psychologist - no couch needed ;)

They can assess the horse, work out what the issues are, and using similar principles to working with people with phobias or anxiety disorders, they can work out with you a programme to overcome the horse's fears and build their confidence.

And if they suggest join-up, they're unlikely to be a qualified behaviourist ;) - never try this with a horse who's fearful or has been abused. Debbie Marsden in Scotland might be worth speaking to.
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Thank you so much where is she based?:)
 
kirstykate said:
I already loose school and he lunges, but he is not happy or confident in himself.

It's not uncommon unfortunately for horses to become psychologically damaged in various circumstances, and the rehabilitation is never straight forward.

Horses in my view only have one fear, and that is that they are going to die, they have no real concept of being hurt as such as they often injure and damage themselves when clicking into flight mode.

For a horse to be in a continual state of unconfidence as his habitual state must be tremendously traumatic for him and make him dangerous to be around as he is on a hair trigger to flight.

Horses are born followers always looking for a leader, even lead horses will defer to a stronger more capable leader and it must be a relief to be able to abdicate that responsibility.

For the horse to be comfortable and relaxed in his skin and surroundings he needs to be confident that you are his leader and you will keep him safe. This isn't achieved by bunny hugging or making or forcing. It is making your ideas his ideas through trust which is hard to gain but easy to lose.

There are many techniques available to build confidence and trust through leadership, and its up to you which you choose. The best I find start with groundwork, and too many foil their own intention by being in too much af a rush to get on board. When he is confident in your leadership on the ground, it is easily transfered to the saddle.
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kirstykate said:
He lacks self confidence, broncs like ****!! with the saddle on in a blind panic
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Is it the girth that's the problem, or the saddle?

Have you tried something like a racing saddle (if it is the saddle) that is much lighter??

Are you experienced enough to back this 'tricky' horse (just a question, so please don't take offence).
 
Brightbay said:
A qualified equine behaviourist is the horse equivalent of a psychologist - no couch needed ;)

They can assess the horse, work out what the issues are, and using similar principles to working with people with phobias or anxiety disorders, they can work out with you a programme to overcome the horse's fears and build their confidence.

And if they suggest join-up, they're unlikely to be a qualified behaviourist ;) - never try this with a horse who's fearful or has been abused. Debbie Marsden in Scotland might be worth speaking to.
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I couldn't agree more with this, any decent trainer has to be an equine behaviourist and vice versa. I like the 'join up' comment, far too much pressure for a horse like this. As for the bucking with a saddle on, it's just symptomatic of his overall state and is likely to be part of the overall claustrophobia he is feeling. I'd not want anyone to get on him until he is comfortable with the saddle, ie cantering with one on without bucking. I always use western tack with horses like this, if they are ok with a western saddle then an english saddle is no problem.
 
Dont worry I have no intentions of getting on him, he would just bury me big style!!! What would you do with him in the school?
 
Pale rider . I'm sure you like my comment about join up, but there are different forms of join up.

After spending a working life time with abused humans ,the treatment is not a lot different to that of animals.
 
Pale Rider said:
kirstykate said:
I already loose school and he lunges, but he is not happy or confident in himself.

It's not uncommon unfortunately for horses to become psychologically damaged in various circumstances, and the rehabilitation is never straight forward.

Horses in my view only have one fear, and that is that they are going to die, they have no real concept of being hurt as such as they often injure and damage themselves when clicking into flight mode.

For a horse to be in a continual state of unconfidence as his habitual state must be tremendously traumatic for him and make him dangerous to be around as he is on a hair trigger to flight.

Horses are born followers always looking for a leader, even lead horses will defer to a stronger more capable leader and it must be a relief to be able to abdicate that responsibility.

For the horse to be comfortable and relaxed in his skin and surroundings he needs to be confident that you are his leader and you will keep him safe. This isn't achieved by bunny hugging or making or forcing. It is making your ideas his ideas through trust which is hard to gain but easy to lose.

There are many techniques available to build confidence and trust through leadership, and its up to you which you choose. The best I find start with groundwork, and too many foil their own intention by being in too much af a rush to get on board. When he is confident in your leadership on the ground, it is easily transfered to the saddle.
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I would agree with this...mine was so underconfident he was dangerous.....it took time to build a relationship but he has turned into a lovely confident lad who will hack out alone and do anything I ask. He is an arab and I think some breeds/types of horse really have to trust their owner to keep them safe. Now he knows that everything isn't out to get him he's fine:)
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paulineh said:
Pale rider . I'm sure you like my comment about join up, but there are different forms of join up.

After spending a working life time with abused humans ,the treatment is not a lot different to that of animals.
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You don't want anything human or horse to 'join up', you want them to 'sign up', for life.
 
Ah yes, the 'Irish treatment' - how many horses have been ruined by fast, aggressive,unsympathetic handling and breaking? [ and yes,I know it doesnt have to be in Ireland!]
No matter how much groundwork you put in , liberty work [ joinup , as otheres here have said , can be traumatic and bullying for horses like this - too much 'send away', whips,fear etc ,. and these so called behavioural experts are often youngish , and wont be getting on your horse themselves ie they can talk the talk.... !!]
One day you will have to sit on this horse and ride it . Or it becomes an expensive field ornament. For some horses the abuse - and usually its connected very strongly to breaking in - is so deep that without many months of work from an experienced horseman, the horse is just not safe. Because sooner or later soemthing triggers fear, and old habits surface . Sorry to sound negative , but having worked with horses like this , I think its best to know what you re up against. Economically , we stopped rehabilitating horses like this [ even though we had good results , but the rider/owner had to be confident/brave/experienced to carry on the work and that is often lacking]- who would pay for six months work , it costs more than the horse is worth. But if you decide to keep him , you could do other stuff , theres much liberty work to learn [ youtube the Pignon brothers for inspiration ], horse agility etc , where you ll find his mind a 'blank page' and therefore learn easily and well.
 
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