PTS: A question

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mickey

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First of all, I'd like to say that this in no way relates to me or my horse.
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I was wondering: Can you name some circumstances under which you would or would not put your horse/a horse to sleep. For example, if you had a horse that had a mild form of lameness (arthritis perhaps) and was intermittently unsound, would you PTS or try to retire / rehome?
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Also is it the owner who has final say whether they want a horse PTS, or is it the vet? Under what circumstances might a vet decide to put a horse to sleep?
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I hope my questions aren't too vague or confusing. It's just I know of a case where horse has been PTS and I think there could have been other options for him.
 
Choosing to have a horse PTS is such a personal choice for the owner there aren't any right or wrongs, its all based on what the owner thinks is an acceptable quality of life or can be dictated by their own circumstances ie can they afford to keep a retired horse if they wish to buy another to ride.

I wouldn't read too much into your knowing more about someone elses decision, it will eat you up and ultimately is none of your business. Not wishing to sound hard or dismissive but its happened.
 
Completely agree with LHS there are no right or wrong reasons for PTS, its a very personal thing, and a choice only the owner can make.
 
We have a beautiful Dartmoor x in our field. She is lovely. And basicly, quite a while ago now she broke her 2 front legs, and the vet was so determind to put her to sleep because they said she will never recover again. Her owner didnt want to put her to sleep, so they just suggested box rest. She was kept in a stable 23hours a day, and she started to get a little better not much though. Her owner didnt like her being in a stable 23hours a day and the vet said she couldnt live out no more. Her owner was also moving away to live in another country so was then starting to think about having her put down as she was kept in 23hours a day and the vet said she couldnt live out, only have a stretch. So my field owner then said well why doesnt she come and stay with us, being a retierd mare and we can keep her in her own part of the field only small so she cant run around etc. Which the owner agreed on but the vet didnt like what so ever. Now ..years later .. you should see her .. you wouldnt have thought that she broke her 2 front legs .. Shes now cantering around the field .. running around. shes not ridden obv but shes 100% sound now. Shes a lovely mare. She has a heart of gold and thank god they didnt put her to sleep because she is one of the happiest horses in the field! Sorry .. just thought id tell you a bit about that experience lol xx
 
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Completely agree with LHS there are no right or wrong reasons for PTS, its a very personal thing, and a choice only the owner can make.

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Agree entirely. There are far worse fates for many horses than death.
 
When my share horse had cushings induced laminitis, rotation, susp ligament damage, etc, etc, she had been bad for a while but had her "good" days every so often. We were sort of putting off the enevitable, thinking maybe tomorrow would be a "good" day then the vet came and said he could/would not leave the horse like it was and it was the only thing to do. I don't think he meant it in a bad/forceful way, just what was right and best for horse and just pushed us to make that decision that we had been avoiding.
 
I had my dressage horse PTS last year when she developed such a bad leg infection the skin split from top to bottom and no amount of anti-b's was helping. We couldn't safely transport her to the vets and she essentially faded away before our eyes.

It's very much the owners choice but the vet will assist you with your decision depending on what's in the best interests of your horse.

It's a horrible, horrible decision though and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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I very much doubt I would rehome an elderly or unsound horse, If I was no longer able to guarantee its safe future personally then I would have PTS.
 
I think that sometimes it's easy for outsiders to make assumptions when they don't have the full picture. It's a decision normally made by the owner and vet together.
Put it this way, one of mine gets extreme stable stress, and consequently lives out 24/7. To cut a long story short, I would not put her through anything that required box rest, and my vet knows that. So it is quite possible that, heaven forbid, she could get pts in circumstances where an outsider might think that more could have been done.
 
Well on a personal basis I have kept and retired a horse with an intermittent lameness that made it unrideable. However, if I had not been financially able to do so then I would only have sought to rehome her if it was on a loan arrangement with a watertight contract to someone who I personally knew and trusted extremely well.

If it was a case of PTS or rehome to a stranger then I would opt for PTS. As someone else has said above, there are worse things that can happen to a horse than a peaceful, unanticipated death. Unfortunately, it is fairly common for such unsound horses to be offered what sounds like a lovely companion home, only to be buted up by the new owner and sold on as a riding animal.
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I had my TB PTS a couple of summer's ago at the age of 14 as he was "pottery". We did some nerve blocks and x-rays and found he had extensive DJD in all joints, which is incurable. The vet suggested steroid injections with the aim of getting him 95% sound so i could "have a few more months hacking him" and was suprised when my response was "wouldn't it be kindest to just put him down", then agreed that it was definitely the best thing and even said it was nice to have an owner be that upfront about such things....

Having been an intermediate eventer and medium level dressage horse a quiet retirment was not an option, he was a competition horse and he didn't settle for anything less so after a week of lush grass a very sympathetic and respectful huntsman came out and he went off to his dreams of Olympic glory. Devastating for me, but exactly the right decision for him
 
For me, any animal that I could not keep adequately when they are no longer useable, would be pts. No way would I try to rehome. There are though lots of things to consider when making such a decision, and this falls to the ultimately, and also to the vet.
 
Owner's choice, always. My first horse was PTS when I was 14, and I'm eternally grateful to my dad for letting me be the one to make the decision, it meant a lot.

If the horse could live a happy life, I would never dream of hanving it PTS. If I wasn't able to keep it, I'd rehome to somewhere it'd be looked after.

If the horse was going to suffer or be unhappy at all, I'd have it PTS - I've seen a horse kept alive for a month because the owners couldn't let go, and I could never watch another one go through the same thing.
 
Every case is differant and i dont think any owner would have a horse pts without great thought and advice from a professional.And sadly at the end of the day you say the horse has already been put down so there is not much point worrying about other options now.
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I know what you are all saying, it is the owner's personal choice (Actually, I am wondering whether the vet can actually say 'no' if he/she feels there is little medical justification?)

I believe that if an animal is in serious pain/has an incurable condition then I would need to take the very difficult decision PTS (but I would want the vet to be clear about this being a good option). One day I will have to make this decision for my horse and it will be my responsibility to ensure that he has a good quality of life and does not visibly suffer.

My concer is that animals are sometimes PTS when they perhaps could have a happy life somewhere. This horse in particular would have been good as a companion horse or possibly in light work. If he were mine I do think I would try another option (as really apart from very mild intermittent lameness there was nothing wrong with him and that could probably have been controlled by a small dose of bute). I just feel like the owner didn't really care. There was plenty of money there so that wasn't an issue.

Are people sometimes too quick to discard an animal, when if they were inventive they could find another sensible option?

I am sure you think I am soft asking these questions/giving this viewpoint, but there we are!
 
I dont think you are being soft.It's good to ask questions.Some horses dont do field ornaments or companions.And to be honest long term Bute use will do more harm than good in the long run.As you say one day you might face the horrible decision to have a horse put to sleep and i'm sure you will do best by your horse and take into account the vets advice and do the right thing.It is a hard call to make that choice and guilt does play abig part of it after the deed has been done.If you say that money was no object in this case then maybe there was no medication or treatment that could of help the pony and the owner done the right thing by the pony.
 
I am having my horse PTS in the next few weeks, he has just been a field ornament for the past 10yrs. Now due to work commitments and a number of other things i am finding it very difficult to keep him now.

My decision is not an easy one by far. He is fit and healthy but due to his bolting which is why he has just been a field ornament for so long and his age (19) i know hes not that old, but old enough that most people don't want to take him on. I will never risk someone else taking him on and trying to ride him and possibly hurting themselves or some poor innocent person there is only one choice for me however hard it is.
 
I have a horse that to most people, is sound, healthy, looks great but if I cannot keep him, will be PTS. Sadly he has a screw loose somewhere in his brain and if he flips he is positively lethal - not nasty just very nervous and hugely overreactive. I've owned him for 14 years and decided a couple of years ago to retire him before he killed someone, either me, an innocent pedestrian or a driver on the road.

I have no doubt that out there somewhere there is a person that could deal happily with him, quirks and all but I'm not prepared to put him through possibly multiple hands trying to find them - everytime somebody scares him (usually by being nervy around him, if that makes sense?) it takes me 6 months to calm him down to a handleable state. IME, too many people over estimate their abilities to handle a difficult horse and then scare themselves witless!

My vet supports this decision despite the horse being in perfect physical health but I have no doubt that I will be called all the names under the sun by various people, most of whom will not go within 20m of this horse just in case, because I'm prepared to make a very difficult, possibly guilt ridden decision to safe guard his future....
It's not always as easy or clear cut as it seems from the sidelines!
 
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My concer is that animals are sometimes PTS when they perhaps could have a happy life somewhere. This horse in particular would have been good as a companion horse or possibly in light work. If he were mine I do think I would try another option (as really apart from very mild intermittent lameness there was nothing wrong with him and that could probably have been controlled by a small dose of bute). I just feel like the owner didn't really care. There was plenty of money there so that wasn't an issue.

Are people sometimes too quick to discard an animal, when if they were inventive they could find another sensible option?

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I'm sorry but things some times are not as easy as someone just saying oh well why can't he be a companion. Have you tried finding a home for a horse just as a companion, because i have and i wish it was as easy as you think it is then i wouldn't have to have my boy PTS, if you horse is over about 14hh then forget it most people just don't want to know.

Don't judge people until you are in their situation
 
my field ornament is 31 this year, he has arthritus in his stiffle and to hoof pick is a bit like a shiverer. my criteria for him is if he can't get up easy, (boings up like a 3yr old) colic, there is no way i would treat a horse this old except for a bit of pain relief and muscle relaxant if that doesn't work then it is pts and anything that requires box rest, as he would just stiffen up and if he stops eating and or looses a lot of weight (trust me it must be serious as he seems to be on a constant diet)

now if this horse was 3yr then my criteria would be different and again was a 10 yr old

when you hear horro stories about what can happend on loan or if they sell a horse that is not up to work then it is over worked then putting to sleep might be the best option
 
I wouldn't rehome any of my ponies. If for some reason I was unable to keep them then I would have them all pts so that I would know where they were. I see ponies going through the sales ring, dragged from sale to sale and I will NEVER risk that happening to one of mine again, all but one have been there and the one that hasn't is home bred. I promised them when bought them that they had a home for life and I meant it. I sometimes get jumped on for the way I feel but loaning isn't safe anymore and I will not let anything bad happen to them when I could prevent it by making the hardest decision purely in their interest.
 
In my experience of smaller animals, vets often give you the option of prolonging their life even when death as a result of something current is inevitable. Owners often want this, but we've always felt if its terminal they may as well go peacefully now than a few months down the line when they are tired and possibly in pain.

With my horse the vets recommended we PTS at the stage we had got to. I remember mum asking the vet "If this were your horse, could you do anything else to help him?" and the vet pulled a face and said "COULD I..." She replied "No - WOULD you?" and he said "categorically not."

In most cases its a joint decision betwen owner and vet, although I think sometimes people can't see the wood for the trees and vets, or someone else has to tell them its time.
 
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I know what you are all saying, it is the owner's personal choice (Actually, I am wondering whether the vet can actually say 'no' if he/she feels there is little medical justification?)



I am sure you think I am soft asking these questions/giving this viewpoint, but there we are!

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You do not need a vet (nor a vet's permission) to have a horse pts. You can simply arrange for a huntsman or a knackerman (or woman) to come to your yard to do the deed
or take the horse to them or to a licensed slaughterhouse.
I agree with the others who have said that the decision is a personal one and often takes many factors into account, which may not be immediately apparent to onlookers. There are far worse things which can happen to a horse than pts humanely, by whichever method is chosen.
 
If my OH doesn't find a job in the next few months I am going to be faced with this descision for financial reasons.
Pony 1 is 28 is still pootles out once a week with a little girl but is likely to loose his rider soon. He is a bit stiff & held onto patches of winter coat last year so possibly has cushings.
Pony 2 is 21, a bit stiff & is still (after 10 months) waiting for a scab from Liverpool Cream treatment to come off. Until the scab comes off she can't be ridden as it's under the saddle.
No 3 is 10 & my son's horse that loves SJ & XC (Sadly haven't renewed Pony Club membership this year due to OH redundancy).

The options for 1 & 2 are really limited - if someone I know & trust is looking for a companion & their facilities are suitable ok, but I know the chances of that are slim to nil so it's likely to be pts. Those of you who may think I should be more imaginative should be in my brain at 2 in the morning when it's trying to find a more palatable option. The other thing to consider is that you have to make the decision while you still have the money to pay for it - I know someone who dithered in my circumstances & then realised they were stuffed as they didn't even have the money to pay the hunt. I really don't want to go there.
 
We acquired our companion horse Des (16h ex racer) at aged 20, as he was about to be PTS as his owner couldn't find a companion home for him. We had had this horse on grass livery (the only one we've ever done where we've been paid!) for 3 months the year before after he'd been to a loan home where he was neglected. He came to us the first time round underweight and with terrible rainscald.

He went back to his owner. Then a year later we lost all our companion horses (1 horse, 1 pony and a donkey) in 3 months. The pony and donkey went first, so when we heard that Des was going to be PTS, we quickly offered him a home to be a companion for our stressy companion horse. A week after we got him, our original companion horse died.
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Still 6 years later we have a great companion horse, who enjoys the odd hack, and would do more if we had the time
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I do think there are options for field sound horses, but if these are not successful, and no other options are available, then I do think PTS is kinder than being sold on for peanuts
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That post could have been written by me, I have a horse with exactly the same problems except he is rising 10. On paper he is a flashy very well bred horse who can turn his hoof to anything but in reality he is too quirky to effectively manage. I am loathed to give him away because there would be a queue around the block of people who over estimate their ability and want to take him on. Somedays he is ok others something flips and he can't cope. He is not nasty at all just very stressy.

I have a double edged sword though in that I bought my own yard to keep him and another horse just like the above on ( retired 10 years through intermittent lameness ). As I wasn't paying livery fees I didn't have to have them PTS financially but I don't want them anymore, both are nearly 17'hh and cost a small fortune to feed / keep properly. On a business sense they are also taking up space that could be rented to others. My vet is very supportive and says some horses are just not meant to be and as long as horses are not neglected they support owners choices re PTS. I don't feel I owe them anything as they have been nothing but a disaster since I bought them and most people would have destroyed them years ago.

Very hard.
 
LHS- There's nothing wrong with your attitude, and you have no reason to keep these two going. You've given them a decent life and one has had 10 yrs of retirement.
 
Ah thankyou for that, so many people rush to judge, and before I was in this situation I was one of these people, but they are not the ones living with this situation.

I have always been brought up to believe animals are for life through thick n thin but keeping two big horses through each winter with no payback is exhausting, physically and emotionally. And the thought of another possibly 15 - 20 years doesn't appeal at all. ( The other is 24 now, I bought him at 8yrs had a year of him being sound and then 3yrs of trying to keep him sound and then retired )

At the moment my moral, ethically, responsibility, need to keep them is outweighing the fact I wish they were gone but its just so hard wrestling away my consciouse. I don't want them but I can't do anything about it. I wish someone had a magic wand.
 
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