PTS.... Injection or Gun?!

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kerraz

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Looking increasingly like im going to have my mare PTS next week and am swaying towards injection but worried about them fighting it? what are people opinions or experiences I had a youngster shot few months back but wasnt present but i would like to be there in the last moments for the lady. :-(
 
Gun for me every time by our hunt staff but I am on our own property which might make a difference if you're a livery somewhere and they have a preference one way or the other. Sorry for your situation.
 
Gun always no doult in my mind .
I PTS a horse before Christmas and because the situation the vet injected as he had not got a gun with him
It's much much more distressing the horse was first sedated them a canualar put into the neck then injected with the drugs took two huge syringes he went down by going over backwards and was still 'there ' on the ground for several seconds .
Shooting is much much better I won't be doing that again.
 
Fortunately, I have only had one horse put to sleep and that was by injection. It was much better than I expected and she went down like she would if getting down to roll or sleep. She went very quickly thanks to my vet who got everything right and I was there until the end.
Not sure I could stay and have seen her shot - it's a personal thing I suppose.
 
Gun, this was told to me by a guy who has horses, and because there was no one available locally, he volunteered to be trained up. Remote area. He suggested no fuss, he would take the horse out of the stable and do it out of sight.
 
For me, it would have to be injection. It may sound selfish, but there is no way I could stand there and watch my horse be shot in the head.
 
xgemmax said:
For me, it would have to be injection. It may sound selfish, but there is no way I could stand there and watch my horse be shot in the head.
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The injection was far far more distressing for me my horse was not dead when he reared and went over backwards when they go down when they are shot they have gone .
 
I have lost 3 horses over the last 10yrs, all have been pts by injection with absolutely no problems atall. Just literally went to sleep. The most recent one was just before Christmas, she was sedated first and then Im told went quietly. I wasnt there at the very end for her as I was too upset, just stayed until she was sedated but am told she went ok.
 
there are quite a few long threads on this with lots of different points of view. i have mine sedated by the vet and i stay there till the horse is very dopey, i then walk away and the horse is shot. my lovely vet always said it was better to remember them standing and not falling down. my first horse was shot and not sedated and i was there and couldnt get that last moment out of my mind for many years and as my horses always mean alot to me i choose the sedation first method. good luck with wehatever you decide...
 
For me (having witnessed both many times over the years) I'd go for the sedation/injection. I am sorry for the reason you have to make this decision ... :(
 
So sorry OP..........

Why don't you give your local hunt kennels a ring and discuss your anxieties with them.......... ditto your vet. Give yourself options, and get the information you think you'll need.

Ultimately it will be your choice, and you need to be informed to be able to make that choice.

Whichever method you decide upon: you will need to think about how and when you will say your goodbye - and if shooting is your chosen option then it is usual for the hunt staff to allow the owner to say their goodbye, and then gently suggest that they let that last memory be a pleasant one, and tactfully steer them away for the final part of things - although you would have the option of being there if you wanted to specifically. They are professionals, they know their job, and are well used to the trauma of it all for the owner involved, so don't be afraid to ask questions and trust them.

With the vet; you need to be confident that your vet is experienced at an equine PTS - and that he/she will be thoroughly professional throughout.

With either method: expect to be gently steered away from the loading up and disposal of the carcase. It isn't pleasant to witness at the very best of times, and normally the professionals involved will advise you, as tactfully as possible, to take yourself away from the scene at this point.

There is another option........... a licensed knackerman; who will come and despatch your mare on-site and take away the carcase afterwards. Again, this person will be a properly licenced professional, who will do a professional job. And because they're doing it all the time basically, they will do what they have to do, properly.

So sorry for you having to make these choices: thinking of you, and sending hugs, whichever option you go for :(
 
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Providing that the horse is in no way stressed, and providing that the person administering the treatment knows his (her) job, then generally each is as effective as the other. Properly administered, and given the choice, I would always shoot a horse. I've shot many, my own and those of others, and (touch wood!) have never made a mistake.

For certain, a soft lead bullet, placed in exactly the right place, will result in instant collapse, an instant state of coma, and a rapid cessation of life. With a lethal injection, NO ONE enjoys doing it and perhaps therein lays the problem. The nervous or perhaps anxious vet may transfer their anxiety to a horse, I'm not sure, but I do know that I've seen horses injected which would have benefited from being shot.

All those who are considering these options, and I know of at least one on here who may have to face up to it, I'd ask that you give the person who carries out the act, some thought. No matter how practiced, putting down a horse, with the owner present is never an easy thing. I've always felt that my focus was on the horse, which somehow makes it easier. When it's over, then that's a different matter.

The only pleasure that I ever derive from the job is in taking a pride in doing it properly.

Alec.
 
Goldenstar said:
The injection was far far more distressing for me my horse was not dead when he reared and went over backwards when they go down when they are shot they have gone .
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What happened with your horse must have been distressing for you and your horse. I had a similar harrowing experience years ago when I stayed with a friend's horse while he was shot. After that experience I simply couldn't face it again.
Whatever way, unless everything goes according to plan it can be even more stressful than it is anyway.
 
A sad situation for you.

I keep telling myself I am not posting on this topic any more but fwiw a brief synopsis:

3 horses shot by knackerman, one by vet. No problems with any, they didn't know a thing.

One injected - talked out of shooting by senior partner vet. 30 yo small pony in organ failure. Fought the drugs for nearly an hour and a half; presumably vet missed the vein. He could not inject more and had to drive to surgery and back to fetch his gun hence the extreme delay. She was conscious throughout - standing/fighting for over an hour.

I asked for him to shoot her when I made the appointment.

Never again unless there is a very good reason to inject - i.e. complete and utter emergency with no other option.
 
I've have done both. My first horse in 2011 was at the vets, sedated and injection. He went quietly but it's wasn't nice to watch. Second horse in 2012. I took him to the hunt, stood behind the huntsman with my back turned. Heard the shot and walked away. I needed to know it had been done. Would use the gun again.
 
Goldenstar said:
The injection was far far more distressing for me my horse was not dead when he reared and went over backwards when they go down when they are shot they have gone .
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You were given false information if you were told your horse would be dead as soon as it hit the ground with the injection. They are merely unconsious, hence they go down. The local anaesthetic element of the injection stops the heart in due course. When my mare was PTS she was sedated first and then collapsed as though she was going down for a roll. My vet reassured me from the outset that she wouldn't be aware of the fall or the landing. It took about 2 minutes for her heart to stop beating, but she never moved or breathed out suddenly, or anything else from the moment she went down. It was all completely peaceful, controlled and dignified. I was able to stay with her throughout so the last thing she heard was my voice and the last thing she felt was me stroking her ears. Other people could come and say goodbye to her afterwards - something you can't really do when the horse has been shot.
 
Alec Swan said:
Providing that the horse is in no way stressed, and providing that the person administering the treatment knows his (her) job, then generally each is as effective as the other. Properly administered, and given the choice, I would always shoot a horse. I've shot many, my own and those of others, and (touch wood!) have never made a mistake.

For certain, a soft lead bullet, placed in exactly the right place, will result in instant collapse, an instant state of coma, and a rapid cessation of life. With a lethal injection, NO ONE enjoys doing it and perhaps therein lays the problem. The nervous or perhaps anxious vet may transfer their anxiety to a horse, I'm not sure, but I do know that I've seen horses injected which would have benefited from being shot.

All those who are considering these options, and I know of at least one on here who may have to face up to it, I'd ask that you give the person who carries out the act, some thought. No matter how practiced, putting down a horse, with the owner present is never an easy thing. I've always felt that my focus was on the horse, which somehow makes it easier. When it's over, then that's a different matter.

The only pleasure that I ever derive from the job is in taking a pride in doing it properly.

Alec.
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I thanked the vet after for giving my horse the peaceful and dignified end that she deserved, and also said how sorry I was he had drawn the short straw. I'm glad it was him though, as he had never met her before, rather than either of the other two vets who were very fond of her.
 
Sorry OP:(

Both of mine were PTS by injection, by my dad. The first was awful- I just didn't really know what to expect. My dad and I were both bawling our eyes out. I remember him saying "you'll have to stand back". It wasn't one of these nightmares other people have had when their horses have got back up, but it was not pleasant. I was only 18, and my dad let me make the decision between injection and bullet. I thought the injection would be easier, but I wish I'd gone for the bullet.

With my second, I wanted bullet, but she was sedated and still in discomfort and would have been in pain again by the time a marksman had made it out. My dad did the injection again, and it was so peaceful. She was already lying down, so I held her head in my arms and that's how she died.
 
kerraz said:
Looking increasingly like im going to have my mare PTS next week and am swaying towards injection but worried about them fighting it? what are people opinions or experiences I had a youngster shot few months back but wasnt present but i would like to be there in the last moments for the lady. :-(
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I have had 3 pts by injection, none fought it and they all went peacefully to sleep in my arms. I would not use the gun from experience and personal reasons
 
The gun by an experienced slaughter man, be it the vet, the kennel man or the knacker man..... the body will have to be removed and at least with the knacker man the job is done quickly. IF you decide to stay with the horse do make sure you have someone experienced with you, maybe ask the BHS for a buddy if you don't know anyone...... farmers are usually very practical in these circumstances. Even if you do decide to stay with the horse whilst it is pts you might be best not to stay to see the body loaded, this is very distressing for many people even though the horse is already dead.

I have seen many pts by both methods and the jab has been the most distressing when it does not go just right, sometimes it is very peaceful, but when it's not it looks awful. Even with shooting be prepared for what to expect.
 
Spook said:
The gun by an experienced slaughter man, be it the vet, the kennel man or the knacker man..... the body will have to be removed and at least with the knacker man the job is done quickly. IF you decide to stay with the horse do make sure you have someone experienced with you, maybe ask the BHS for a buddy if you don't know anyone...... farmers are usually very practical in these circumstances. Even if you do decide to stay with the horse whilst it is pts you might be best not to stay to see the body loaded, this is very distressing for many people even though the horse is already dead.

I have seen many pts by both methods and the jab has been the most distressing when it does not go just right, sometimes it is very peaceful, but when it's not it looks awful. Even with shooting be prepared for what to expect.
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OP have you chosen what to do with body?

Its personal choice but for me to go up there daily to see other horse and see trail blood stopping at the ramp or a pile where it happened is not for me.

I will stay with mine to the end even after they have gone as its quiet and just me and her close and reassuring. I will how ever not watch them pulled in the truck.
 
kerraz said:
Looking increasingly like im going to have my mare PTS next week and am swaying towards injection but worried about them fighting it? what are people opinions or experiences I had a youngster shot few months back but wasnt present but i would like to be there in the last moments for the lady. :-(
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Injection for me every time. I've had to have 4 of my own put to sleep over the years and seen several livery horses also pts with the injection and have to say, every time it has been a very peaceful experience, never known any horse to 'fight it'? Maybe I've just been lucky with what is always a very hard thing to go through however it's done 😕
 
kerraz said:
Looking increasingly like im going to have my mare PTS next week and am swaying towards injection but worried about them fighting it? what are people opinions or experiences I had a youngster shot few months back but wasnt present but i would like to be there in the last moments for the lady. :-(
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From what I have been led to believe the stories of horses fighting the injection are old stories, the method has changed as so the drugs.

I wouldn't hesitate to have injection. So long as the horse has the catheter thing in place and has a sedation first I don't see there is any problem. Obviously the bigger or fitter the horse the longer it takes for the heart to slow down and I believe a lot of animals display agonal gasping. My previous horse was pts and I was not present as the horse had wobblers and it was considered too dangerous as he was totally uncoordinated in his movements. I elected to see his body after he was put down but was not warned about any relex movements or sounds and I found the whole experience terribly distressing to the point that it plunged me into a depression and took me a long long time to get over his death. I was assured that the animal was dead but it was horrific seeing his tummy and flank flickering and hear him grunting. The first grunt coincided with my hand touching his neck as I crouched down to stroke him and this totally freaked me out as I believed he knew I was there and he was trying to communicate with me. This grunting is called agonal gasping and is nothing to do with 'agony' in the sense we know it. Its to do with relex movements and sounds made after death and to do with when the horse in unconcious and unaware of what is happening to it.

I would leave it ten minutes before seeing a body again as this noise/movement stops after thsi period of time.
 
I've always had them injected.
It's no different to being anaesthetised, and all bar one have just sunk at the knees and homes down very peacefully. The other one ran backwards as it started to kick in and fell over, but he was quite sharp anyway. It was still only a second.
If a shooting goes wrong it would be horrendous to witness.
 
Gun . If the injection is too quick it can not work well. I stood holding my mare when she was shot in the land next to the paddok and she knew nothing.
 
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