PTS: InjectVsShooting

Hugh F-W is talking nonsense, if that's what he said.

I don't hold a slaughterman's license, but providing that I don't do it for reward, ie pay, then I can shoot anything, anywhere and at anytime. I put down all our own horses, sheep, cats and dogs, but I only act for others, these days, in emergencies.

There would need to be an implied level of confidence and experience, when it comes to putting down a horse. Any attempts at inexperienced pot-shots would be grounds for prosecution, I'd have thought. Sadly, holding a licence is no guarantee of competence, as we know!

For our own lambs, whilst I'm allowed to kill dress and butcher, for our own use, as the meat hasn't had an FSA inspection, or been killed at a licensed premises, I'm not allowed to sell it. Perhaps that's what H F-W meant, in that he couldn't sell the meat. :confused:

Alec.
 
paddy555 said:
I cannot believe that anyone would take a horse anywhere near a slaughter lorry especially with a dead horse already inside and not expect it to be upset. .
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Nobody was more surprised than me that the lorry was not only not clean but also contained a dead horse. The firm was unprofessional and I will not use them again.

The horse was never apparently upset, he made no attempt to move back to his field mates who were standing just feet away watching. He moved his head, which was simply fairly normal behaviour for him.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
Nudibranch said:
As for experienced vets and drug reactions and all that, don't believe it.
The VERY senior vet at the old practice made a complete bodge job of my little old mare. Said her failing system would give the best chance of the drug working. It didn't and it took an hour and a half for her to die - I don't mean agonal breaths, I mean consciousness. He then said her failing system was probably why she fought it.
What?

T
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I can only speak as I find about PTS by injections however, senior or not senior, I would be wondering why one vet can make a complete bodge of something yet another, ie mine and it seems some others on here seem to do a very good job?

Presumably they use the same drugs and methods so why the difference?

I think to some extent it must be the vets. I had one horse with colic last year. The vet who came, experienced, needed to get into the vein. The experience for a relatively quiet and co-operative horse was diabolical. He was panicing not because of the colic which was relatively mild at that stage he was panicing because of the vet. It must have taken about 15 minutes to get the drugs into the vein, The horse was twitched, going crazy and I was in tears at what was having to be done to him. He had never behaved like that before.. OTOH he did need the drugs.

The next vet who came spent one and a half hours messing around trying to get a blood sample. The horse hospital put him in stocks but they did get a catheter in fairly quickly. He came home with instructions that he needed regular blood tests.

My own vet (who PTS my horses by injection) arrived. I had spent all night worrying about what would happen.
It took less than a minute to get the blood, horse perfectly calm, relaxed and licking my hand with the vet wondering what all the fuss had been about and declaring him one of the easiest to deal with.

The only difference was the vet. :)
 
Isn't there a method of stunning that uses a jolt of electricity to the animal's brain as well? I remember seeing it on that BBC3 documentary about the slaughter process and showing people where their meat comes from.

Is that used at all in other circumstances than the slaughterhouse?
 
I am possibly having to make the hard decision of having my 5 year old put to sleep next week due to wobblers syndrome and he is one of the rare cases that is suffering a lot of pain from it. I had my first horse put to sleep by lethal injection but he fought the whole way down and was incredibly distressing (I was 16 at the time). My boy is petrified of injections to the point of getting dangerous but I've also heard there's a lot of mess regarding shooting and I know I won't be in any fit state to clean it up afterwards. Hes a very spirited horse but at the same time doesn't need a lot of sedation (for example today the vet came and took some xrays and used half the dosage of sedation for his size and he was out of it!) Never thought I would have to make this awful decision again but I am really not sure what to go for. My yard friends are saying injection but my family (who witnessed Eddie go down) say choose the gun option.
 
JackAT said:
Isn't there a method of stunning that uses a jolt of electricity to the animal's brain as well? .......

Is that used at all in other circumstances than the slaughterhouse?
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Only sheep and pigs are stunned in the UK, using electricity, and no, electric stunning is only done within the confines of an abattoir. The word "Stun" does actually apply to this method, because if the animal isn't bled out, almost immediately, it will regain a conscious state. With a captive bolt pistol, it's a one way trip, and I've never seen any animal recover from a correctly placed shot.

Alec.
 
Izzwall said:
I am possibly having to make the hard decision of having my 5 year old put to sleep next week due to wobblers syndrome and he is one of the rare cases that is suffering a lot of pain from it. I had my first horse put to sleep by lethal injection but he fought the whole way down and was incredibly distressing (I was 16 at the time). My boy is petrified of injections to the point of getting dangerous but I've also heard there's a lot of mess regarding shooting and I know I won't be in any fit state to clean it up afterwards. Hes a very spirited horse but at the same time doesn't need a lot of sedation (for example today the vet came and took some xrays and used half the dosage of sedation for his size and he was out of it!) Never thought I would have to make this awful decision again but I am really not sure what to go for. My yard friends are saying injection but my family (who witnessed Eddie go down) say choose the gun option.
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There is some mess after shooting .
I always leave a hose out by where I have them done and would recommend you do the same , find a friend who will hose off the area afterwards my vet always does it for me , don't do it yourself .
It's not a lot you know but it's something you don't need to see .
 
Izzwall said:
I am possibly having to make the hard decision of having my 5 year old put to sleep next week due to wobblers syndrome and he is one of the rare cases that is suffering a lot of pain from it. I had my first horse put to sleep by lethal injection but he fought the whole way down and was incredibly distressing (I was 16 at the time). My boy is petrified of injections to the point of getting dangerous but I've also heard there's a lot of mess regarding shooting and I know I won't be in any fit state to clean it up afterwards. Hes a very spirited horse but at the same time doesn't need a lot of sedation (for example today the vet came and took some xrays and used half the dosage of sedation for his size and he was out of it!) Never thought I would have to make this awful decision again but I am really not sure what to go for. My yard friends are saying injection but my family (who witnessed Eddie go down) say choose the gun option.
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SO sorry, I had a 10 year old wobbler put down last year. He was shot and went really easily, just fell and was gone. There is some blood, but not a lot. Just have your family/friends ready with some buckets to swoosh it away for you. Don't feel you have to be with him. He doesn't know what is about to happen and he only thinks someone else is leading him off somewhere, just as they do on the days you aren't at the yard. I hope it goes as well for you as it possibly can.
 
Alec Swan said:
Only sheep and pigs are stunned in the UK, using electricity, and no, electric stunning is only done within the confines of an abattoir. The word "Stun" does actually apply to this method, because if the animal isn't bled out, almost immediately, it will regain a conscious state. With a captive bolt pistol, it's a one way trip, and I've never seen any animal recover from a correctly placed shot.

Alec.
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Thanks for replying to my questions and being patient, I know I've asked a lot of them. I think it's an important thing to have some knowledge of so it's easier when the time comes, and I've learned a lot from this thread.

Izzwall, I wish you the best whatever happens and know you will make the best decision for you and your horse. :)
 
Izwall I feel for you.

I have never seen anything horrific after shooting, sometimes a little blood but I've seen two with not a drop. So quick and they knew nothing about it.
 
Izwall, I used the hunt for my 3 year old, left her with a friend, rode out for someone and when I got back she was gone. Mess wise there was more than I expected but it was my first PTS, on grass and out of hose reach. Its my own yard and it had started snowing, I was completely on my own. I can honestly say it was the loneliest thing I have ever done, filling water containers, loading them into the barrow and trudging 150 m down the track to clear up but I felt oddly better once it was done. Its awful with a young horse as you grieve for what could have been, how its so unfair when they are so young. I looked at mine and thought whether I could put her through another 30years as a pet (she would have been unrideable and high maintenance, prob bute dependant at 3).
 
Thankyou for everyone who replied, I think I have made up my mind about which method to use and I will be going for the bullet option. He's always been a bit of a 'head in the clouds' kind of horse and most of the time doesn't really know what's going on, bless him.
My OH has very very kindly offered to clear up any mess so thankfully that's a weight off my mind. I'm just waiting to hear back from the vet in the next few days as we took further xrays of his poll to send to a specialist to correctly diagnose whether it's wobblers or something else but it's not looking great for him. Also what evers happening at his poll is causing significant arthritis changes further down his neck and his neurological problems are getting worse though he hasn't fallen over yet since he went downhill 6 weeks ago.
The saddest part is looking at him you wouldn't think there is anything wrong with him and for a while I had a lot of the liveries saying I was just looking for problems that are not there. Glad I stuck to my gut feeling!!
Here's a quick piccie I took last week, sorry if it's huge
 
Izzwall,

given that the diagnosis which comes back carries the worst news for you, I think that you're being incredibly brave, humane and responsible.

A horrible few days ahead for you, I suspect, but you will come through this with your self respect intact, and that's important. Well done you.

Alec.
 
Hi, I have to say for me, it is always the injection...never have i had a bad experience this way, the horses have always gone quietly and with no stress. I held a friends horse to be shot and they had to shoot him three times before he died...It was an horrendous experience and something i would never want to relive :-(
The ppl that shot the horse,were always used locally and never had any probs with them before...I spose we were just unlucky.
 
He is beautiful Izwall. I grew rather short with a few people who helpfully told me I was giving up on her etc etc but as I was not God and could not magic her leg straight I knew I was right. Mine was away with the fairies bless her, never thought past her food and went with her head in a bucket. The hunt were extremely quick quiet and professional, my friend waited with her and was impressed, she had just had one PTS by injection and what she saw did not put her off, in fact she said she would be happier to use the hunt next time despite having a good injection experience. That was good enough for me.
 
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