PTS livery loss

pistolpete

pistolpete

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Considering putting my highland to sleep. He’s 18 and retired four years. He’s not a friendly pony and stresses if moved. My current situation suits him well. Minimal interaction but the woman who runs the field is increasingly causing me stress. Would it be awful and has anyone done this just to get out of a situation? Not sure I’ll be able to live with myself but can’t see a way out right now. Sad.
 
I had a 15 year old PTS. She had a few niggling issues and was very much joined to a field companion. The field companion had an accident and had to be PTS so I had the huntsman dispatch my mare too. She wouldn't have coped and would have run threw fences in a blind panic. It seemed the best thing at the time. I have occasionally questioned my decision but I did what I thought right at the time.
 
pistolpete said:
He does seem really content as long as there are no people around but lately he’s been bullied a bit which is most unusual.
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Sometimes that can be a sign all is not well. I wouldn't PTS just because a horse doesn't like humans but I did PTS one that wasn't safe around humans. Similar age. By the time he came to me the awful behaviour was so ingrained I decided to call time.

I never think its particularly helpful (or showing much empathy) when people strongly say they would have done x,y,z - I think though that horses are very stoic and don't fear death the same way that humans do. You're the one who has to sleep at night and if your gut is telling you it's time then it probably is.
 
SEL said:
Sometimes that can be a sign all is not well. I wouldn't PTS just because a horse doesn't like humans but I did PTS one that wasn't safe around humans. Similar age. By the time he came to me the awful behaviour was so ingrained I decided to call time.

I never think its particularly helpful (or showing much empathy) when people strongly say they would have done x,y,z - I think though that horses are very stoic and don't fear death the same way that humans do. You're the one who has to sleep at night and if your gut is telling you it's time then it probably is.
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I guess my gut isn’t saying it. It’s just my livery situation is miserable. Giving me stress and it’s like swimming in treacle for a pony who just wants to be left alone!
 
Tiddlypom said:
Tbh from you write about your Highland he would not pass my baseline assessment for my retirees, which is to be a ‘happy pasture ornament’.

He does not sound happy, and I expect has continual low level pain.

I would have pts him before now.
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I totally agree with this
He doesn't sound as if he makes you happy or is particularly happy himself
I'm so sorry, it's never easy
 
No it wouldn't be awful and have thought before he sounds very hard work with little reward especially with the yard situation affecting your stress. Same as TP id have pts before now

I pts my 24 year old with cushings when the cost of living was reported to be increasing as I was already struggling financially with a horse

You would be securing his future, not leaving him to fall into a dodgy future, there are far worse fates for a not easy horse than pts. You'd be doing a responsible thing.
 
In my experience, horses are social creatures. They can be wary of humans if feral, but have good relationships with other horses. Once tame though, they seek human interaction. A tame horse who actively dislikes touch is usually in pain in my experience. Low level perhaps, but enough to cause low level ulcers which gives that skin sensitivity that says no thank you to touch and handling.

My husband hurt himself several times in succession at work this year and ended up with stomach ulcers. Grumpy, unwilling to do anything, not wanting to be touched, bad breath. I joked he was basically a horse and got him to the GP. Oh my the difference within days.

Always better a week too early than a day too late, and if he is now being bullied he’s getting worse.
 
I don't know how this will be received but I put down my happily retired and not very crocked guy in July. He was field sound (some people [not me] would say he was sound period). But I've not been able to look after him or his friend (who went elsewhere on livery) for 3 years, since my illness started, and have been relying on non-horsey family and my friend/livery, who has complex fostering commitments. We skated through hoping we didn't have an horsey emergency during that period. My friend went on the waiting list at the yard she wanted when it was clear I wasn't going to get better and we agreed when a space came up she would go and my guy would be pts, which happened this summer. I don't know how much longer I can work, so I wasn't going to start paying livery. I'd also promised him he'd never have to move again (8 homes before me when he was aged 10 and he was a bit screwed up as a result) and he'd been happily retired for 9 years. I felt that at least he'll never know another day's uncertainty. He went with his face in a bucket of grass nuts and didn't know a thing about it. So I think if it's right for you that can be enough. You will be very sad about it though, it's a lot worse than having your hand forced by injury/illness.
 
pistolpete said:
I guess my gut isn’t saying it. It’s just my livery situation is miserable. Giving me stress and it’s like swimming in treacle for a pony who just wants to be left alone!
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I've been in stressful livery situations before and it made me doubt me, my horses, why I got up in the morning etc etc

Moving helped!!
 
In this sort of situation I would advise you only discuss with close supportive people and if you do go ahead then choose your vet wisely or use hunt/knackerman.

I would always support someone taking this hard decision, but for others it won’t be quite so clear cut and there is potential for non-agreement and it can get emotionally more difficult in an already difficult situation
 
I had Beau pts, everyone thought it was sudden, it was’t, I just didn’t post about it. I didn’t want him going through another winter, his stifle kept locking, the arthritis was getting worse, he was stuck one day, I was terrified he’d roll and be unable to get up. He was content, retired, but on a lot of painkiller to keep him that way and any new horse/unusual happening made him hoon round like a youngster then he’d suffer. I had a conversation with the vet who absolutely agreed. I echo @Sandstone1 re chat with your vet. As I keep reading on here, there are worse things than pts.
 
ihatework said:
In this sort of situation I would advise you only discuss with close supportive people and if you do go ahead then choose your vet wisely or use hunt/knackerman.

I would always support someone taking this hard decision, but for others it won’t be quite so clear cut and there is potential for non-agreement and it can get emotionally more difficult in an already difficult situation
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If your vet is likely to want to continue ‘trying’ treatments / ameliorations, then just contact the hunt.
Some vets can be unhelpful to put it mildly: maybe they didn’t become vets to destroy animals, maybe they don’t like to admit defeat, maybe they’d like to try a new drug, maybe there’s corporate pressure to keep the money rolling in - but you won’t get guilt tripped by hunt servants or knackermen.
And you really do not need doubts or undermining at all, it’s a difficult enough thing to decide.
 
In the situation you’re in where your livery situation is deteriorating (your YO sounds to be becoming increasingly difficult and making it very hard to manage him appropriately) and there is no viable alternative and where it is making you stressed I think it is definitely worth considering.

Obviously he’s not fully sound and healthy either and has a few conflicting needs re weight management and being prone to colic.

I’ve had a few PTS where I know others would have kept them going but equally where members on here whose opinions I really respect said they would have done it sooner. (As I think I told you the orange one I had another livery try to buy him to “save” him and obviously the fuzzy one I PTS without vet backing, although when pushed Tom did admit it was a valid option but if I hadn’t pushed he wouldn’t have said it)

Have a chat with your vet by all means but I think there’s definitely been a shift in how willing some vets are to come out & say “it’s time”. (& having it done with the gun is definitely a very valid option if you’re struggling to get vet onside)

It wouldn’t be “wrong” to keep going whilst he’s relatively happy with good mobility if that’s what you decide either but (& I can fully appreciate the irony of ME saying this) no horse is worth pushing yourself to the extremes of stress / making yourself ill over. That is not what you signed up for and it’s ok to give him a dignified & peaceful end in order to protect your own health & sanity. xxx
 
Do you have alternative livery options to consider? Could your boy cope with a move if given a period of calmers to help his stress? Just a couple of things to think about.
I hope your talk with the vet is helpful. Its is such a tough call to make.
 
ihatework said:
In this sort of situation I would advise you only discuss with close supportive people and if you do go ahead then choose your vet wisely or use hunt/knackerman.

I would always support someone taking this hard decision, but for others it won’t be quite so clear cut and there is potential for non-agreement and it can get emotionally more difficult in an already difficult situation
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100%
 
Exasperated said:
If your vet is likely to want to continue ‘trying’ treatments / ameliorations, then just contact the hunt.
Some vets can be unhelpful to put it mildly: maybe they didn’t become vets to destroy animals, maybe they don’t like to admit defeat, maybe they’d like to try a new drug, maybe there’s corporate pressure to keep the money rolling in - but you won’t get guilt tripped by hunt servants or knackermen.
And you really do not need doubts or undermining at all, it’s a difficult enough thing to decide.
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100%
 
Boulty said:
In the situation you’re in where your livery situation is deteriorating (your YO sounds to be becoming increasingly difficult and making it very hard to manage him appropriately) and there is no viable alternative and where it is making you stressed I think it is definitely worth considering.

Obviously he’s not fully sound and healthy either and has a few conflicting needs re weight management and being prone to colic.

I’ve had a few PTS where I know others would have kept them going but equally where members on here whose opinions I really respect said they would have done it sooner. (As I think I told you the orange one I had another livery try to buy him to “save” him and obviously the fuzzy one I PTS without vet backing, although when pushed Tom did admit it was a valid option but if I hadn’t pushed he wouldn’t have said it)

Have a chat with your vet by all means but I think there’s definitely been a shift in how willing some vets are to come out & say “it’s time”. (& having it done with the gun is definitely a very valid option if you’re struggling to get vet onside)

It wouldn’t be “wrong” to keep going whilst he’s relatively happy with good mobility if that’s what you decide either but (& I can fully appreciate the irony of ME saying this) no horse is worth pushing yourself to the extremes of stress / making yourself ill over. That is not what you signed up for and it’s ok to give him a dignified & peaceful end in order to protect your own health & sanity. xxx
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(Sorry everyone, I know my replies are tedious but pressing the heart-eyed button seems inappropriate in this topic.)
 
It sounds like an awful situation and I can totally see that PTS could be the right thing to do.

The only thought I had was that if your livery situation is distressing you so much, you may feel completely stuck. It is possible that changing that situation may improve things for your mental state and for your horse. If there is an alternative place to keep him, you could try moving him. If it doesn't work, then you can PTS, hopefully without feeling so conflicted as you currently do. Please don't think that I am saying this because I think you are wrong, I'm trying to respond to your understandable distress.
 
I would agree with only discussing this IRL with supportive people. I generally tell very few people before the event.

I am another who says a week/month too early rather than a day too late.

The only queries I would have are:

1. you have posted about not being particularly happy in other areas of your domestic life.
2. It is mainly about a difficult livery situation.
3. You say yourself that you are not sure.
4. It is winter blues time.

Because of that, I think it would be prudent to set a time period where you don't make a decision, say 6 weeks. Think about trying different livery. Think about how you will feel and how external factors are affecting you.

If the horse is physically compromised, I don't think it is the wrong thing to do at all. I would just ensure that it isn't a snap decision that you would later regret, for yourself.
 
Fairly sure your vet can do a blood test to check for inflammation markers, to help with an assessment of pain levels. Horses often start to be bullied if they are feeling under the weather, and in generalised normal circumstances, most horses will choose to be in sight of the herd, if not actually in the midst of the herd. Would a move to another yard change anything for him or for you? If you get the the point where you have run out of viable options, then go with your gut feeling. Hugs. It's never easy.
 
pistolpete said:
Thank everyone and @Boulty for your kindness and message. I’m not quite at peace with letting him go but it may come sooner than later. I will get the vet out to assess his general health at some point. I doubt very much she’ll think he’s a pts case but you never know!
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Could you try a bute trail to see if his being bullied more now is pain related - then you can decide whether daily intervention to medicate and a yard move would be worth it for him.

If he was fully happy in the herd I would be tempted to look for more reasonable livery arrangements. If he wasn't happy in himself where he is then I wouldn't question your decision at all.
 
I’m sorry you are having to think about this. I spent most of the early part of this year incredibly stressed with a poorly horse and knowing that our livery wasn’t working for either of us. I had got to the point where I was almost hoping to find something catastrophic with the horse so the decisions on everything was taken out of my hands. Nothing was found and we’ve moved yards and all is good. But I do totally understand that horrible feeling of almost wishing that something would resolve the issue, even if it ends up being a PTS. A vet visit is a good idea as if his time has come then it does reassure you that it’s the right time. No easy thing to deal with and I hope you find a way forward for both of you.
 
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