PTS methods/oppinions wanted ....

[MellyMoo]

Not a nice topic I know, but the time has come for my old boy to be PTS. He's had a lovely life with me for 15 years and I owe him a decent send off. He has only ever known me in his adult life and although he is only 19 I have decided that the time has come, as I dont want to see him knee deep in mud for another winter, when he's not sound or happy and its essentially just for my sake.

I had almost decided on having the hunt do the deed but people keep swaying me. I'm not after horror stories, please this is hard enough as it is ..... just some friendly advice and oppinions. Also if anyone has ball park costs that would be greatfully received. thanks

 

[the watcher]

if you use the search facility you will find that this is a subject that has been touched on many times here, and usually evokes very strong feelings in the contributors

For what it is worth, my opinion is that either method is fine (although my personal preference is for the kennels, they do it regularly and are very good at what they do). As long as you are doing it at a place where the horse is comfortable then do whichever feels right to you.

 

[TelH]

My oldest pony was pts last month. She was 27. I had her pts by injection, I would personally never have one shot, not saying there's anything wrong with doing it that way, just personal preference. The cost of pts and individual cremation with ashes returned was approx £700.

 

[mymare]

Mellymoo, everyone is different. I personally had my mare pts, but know that the hunt do a quick, clean job. You must do whatever you personally feel you want to go with.

 

[Persephone]

I have had one shot and two injected. Each time the most apropriate method was used for the circumstances.

I would try to ignore the horror stories tbh, people love to talk about a drama, but when things go to plan you don't hear a word!

I think you will find the hunt/abbattoir shoot more horses than the vet, so in theory should be better at it. If you have a headshy horse, then you will probably want him sedated first whichever method which will need the vet.

I paid around £ 100 for each method and had the ponies cremated which was around £700 each.

I'm sure the hunt would be a lot cheaper, send them an e;mail if you can't speak about it.

Try not to let people sway you, speak to the experts and make your decision.

I promise you it won't be as dreadful as you think, either way xx

 

[cptrayes]

Well done for making a difficult decision for your horse. I hope it goes smoothly, as best it can.

My hunt charged £200 five years ago.

I would always have the hunt or an abattoir come and shoot them. It's quick and it's over. The injections are expensive, slow in comparison, and the horse can fight the drugs. It is not common, but when it happens they can throw themselves around.

I have to admit I'm baffled why anyone would pay hundreds of pounds for an individual cremation.

 

[Persephone]

I would go to far as saying that fighting the injection is very uncommon. The personal experience I have had is they have pretty much dropped off the needle.

 

[Swift08]

Firstly, I am very sorry, it is such a difficult decision to make
Personally I would go for the injection over gun, Pharaoh went quickly and peacefully and it was (maybe selfishly?) a lot less traumatic for my mum and I which I don't think would have been the case had I chosen the gun. However you must do what you feel is right in your opinion.
It cost £235 for Pharaoh's body to be taken away and just over £100 for him to be put down. I did not want his ashes back though as I did not feel that I wanted to have to carry his ashes with me for the foreseeable future.

 

[jrp204]

I would always send 'hunting', the hunt staff are very efficient and sympathetic.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I don't think the hunt round here do it, I had to consider it last year, fortunately all is OK now, but I would have had him sedated to walk round the back where he would be shot by knackers, main problem would be my emotions, would I get someone else to lead him out, so that he would not suspect?, but knackerman would definitely smell nasty so he would know , I think.
We had a few old favourite racehorses put down due to infirmity. They were led out to the top of the gallops [cherry tree] or by the hedge-back [space for a plaque], where a hole was ready for them, then injected.

 

[Wagtail]

Injection every time. I couldn't face seeing a horse shot. I look at it this way, you here horror stories about both methods, but the vast majority go peacefully with both methods, however, if my horse was one of the unlucky ones, I would rather inject twice than shoot twice.

 

[Maesfen]

Well done for making a difficult decision for your horse. I hope it goes smoothly, as best it can.

My hunt charged £200 five years ago.

I would always have the hunt or an abattoir come and shoot them. It's quick and it's over. The injections are expensive, slow in comparison, and the horse can fight the drugs. It is not common, but when it happens they can throw themselves around.

I have to admit I'm baffled why anyone would pay hundreds of pounds for an individual cremation.

Have to agree with this. Hunt staff are excellent at the job, kind and considerate with both your horse and you, I can't fault them ever compared to some vets who breeze in and are gone in an instant without a thought for your feelings; not all vets are like that of course but some have been which leaves a nasty taste in the mouth when you're feeling bad enough as it is.

The one thing I would say is pick your place carefully so that whoever is collecting can get to the horse without any dramas and it causes the least distress to any others, also allow any buddies your horse might have to visit the body so that they can sniff him to grieve themselves and will accept him going far better that way than if he just disappeared, it seems very important to them.

 

[touchstone]

The main thing in my opinion is to have someone experienced doing the job, whichever method you choose. I wouldn't insist on shooting if the vet doing the job was happier and more experienced with injecting for example.

The other thing is how does your horse react to injections? For a horse that gets upset by them easily then that may not be the best method for that particular horse.

The knackerman has always been quick and efficient in my experience, and I've not seen a horse get upset by one, whereas the vet tends to be a different matter with some horses.

As with everything there is no right or wrong, just what is best for the horse at that time. Every horse is an individyual and as the owner you are the one best placed to know how they will react. Mine is very funny with vets and all sorts of proceedures, so I think giben the option I may go for shooting when the time comes.

I hope everything goes as smoothly as possible for you, the build up and preparation is by far the worst thing about it all in my experience.

 

[robysfarm]

One of my old Ponies was put to sleep suddenly on Monday evening so no time to plan it. Her body started to shut down on her during the afternoon the vet was called and she had the injection while she was still in the field. It was very quick and peaceful and she was where she was happy. In 12 years of owning horses I have never been faced with the decision and had to make it but now I know its how any of the others would leave us. It cost £120.00 with the vet but that was with emergency call out and £200.00 for her to be collected but Im not having the ashes back. Cut a chunk on her tail off and have kept her headcoller and leadrope. Today is the first time Ive been able to think of it without crying but she was very poorly at the end and the fire had gone out of her eyes.

 

[Dab]

OP sorry to hear about the tough decision you are making.
My boy went very suddenly last year after rupturing his ddft, he was mindly sedeated at the vets whilst they did the scan to see what was wrong and i then had to make a sudden decision on what to do regarding pts. The vet asked me if i wanted to take him home for a couple of days and they would come out to do him there (she advised me that she prefered to use injection so i did not question her on this), or wait for him to come out of sedation and pts at the vets or pts immediately at the vets. I opted for the later, as i could not bear for him to come round and suffer any further.
It all happened very suddenly and i was then asked if i wanted him individually cremated and his ashes back, i couldn't think clearly but opted to have the ashes back as i didn't want to regret not having them (if that makes sense) but i'm glad i did as i scattered them in his favourite places in the field with his 3 neighbouring buddies watching over the fence as if they all knew what was happening. Interestingly his field buddy wouldn't come anywhere near me during or for about an hour after scattering his ashes.
In over 20 years of horses ownership, this was the first time i had a horse pts. For me (and my lovely boy) injection whilst he was still sedated was immediate, painless and fitting. I always thought ppl who had horses cremated and had their ashes back were slightly crazy, but i cried for a week after my boy went until i got his ashes back and once i had scattered them in the field i felt a sense of peace. So each to there own, and only having had one pts with injection I can recommend it from my own experience.

 

[Puppy]

I would go to far as saying that fighting the injection is very uncommon. The personal experience I have had is they have pretty much dropped off the needle.

I have to agree with this. I know a lot of people say they would never use the injection for this reason, but I think it's terribly rare. I also feel confident that as both my horses have been sedated in the past they will be ok with this method.

When their time comes I will (ideally) have them PTS at home by an injection, by the vet they and I trust.

 

[welshcobabe]

I had both my horses in the past put down with the injection. I brought both these horses into the world and was there with them at the end they were 22 and my much loved Megs only 13 after fighting the dreaded Lamitnus.

In both cases it was peaseful and very dignified both were sedated first and then given the final dose both went down like lying down to sleep and it was instant.

As a child my father an old fashioned farmer type made me witness one of our shire horses been shot and it has remaind with me it is quick but there is a lot of blood. I personally would have the injection but it does cost more as you have to pay to have them taken away for creamation as once injected they can not be used for anything else.

 

[x colours x]

So sorry you are facing this decision. I agree there is no right or wrong with this Decision. I personally would go with shooting only for the fact i do not know what kind of terror for lack of a better word the horse will or will not feel while the Injection takes hold. I personally like to believe shooting is instant. All the best x

 

[fburton]

I have to agree with this. I know a lot of people say they would never use the injection for this reason, but I think it's terribly rare. I also feel confident that as both my horses have been sedated in the past they will be ok with this method.

Rare, yes, but circulating horror stories can make some people think it's a significant possibility. Shooting can go wrong too. It would be good to get the true statistics on the failure rates of both methods.

I personally would go with shooting only for the fact i do not know what kind of terror for lack of a better word the horse will or will not feel while the Injection takes hold.

I don't know why a horse would feel terror with an injection (unless it was terrified of injections, but that's different). The anaesthetic is going to reach the brain in a big wave, not a trickle, and when it does consciousness will be lost within a second or two. There's no reason to think it's much different from falling asleep suddenly.

 

[Dab]

I don't know why a horse would feel terror with an injection (unless it was terrified of injections, but that's different). The anaesthetic is going to reach the brain in a big wave, not a trickle, and when it does consciousness will be lost within a second or two. There's no reason to think it's much different from falling asleep suddenly.

^^^my understanding from what my vet told me about LI^^^

 

[x colours x]

^^^my understanding from what my vet told me about LI^^^

I got that from a women having her dressage horse pts years ago and he staggered around the stable before he went down - what i was meaning is the fear a horse will feel losing its footing this way and struggling

 

[OneInAMillion]

When we had our old pony PTS (gun) , it cost £100 inc. body removal. He was gone absolutely instantly and didn't even know what was going on as the man patted his forehead for a while and then just did the deed, it was all very quick and painfree for my little boy

 

[Wagtail]

Rare, yes, but circulating horror stories can make some people think it's a significant possibility. Shooting can go wrong too. It would be good to get the true statistics on the failure rates of both methods.


I don't know why a horse would feel terror with an injection (unless it was terrified of injections, but that's different). The anaesthetic is going to reach the brain in a big wave, not a trickle, and when it does consciousness will be lost within a second or two. There's no reason to think it's much different from falling asleep suddenly.

Completely agree. Why are people so bothered about putting horses to sleep by injection, yet think nothing of putting their horses under anaesthetic for an operation? I have seen 3 horses PTS by injection. Two literally just went to sleep, the other dropped down raised her head once, and then went to sleep. There is no kicking and twitching like with the gun, but one thing to be prepared for is that there are a few heavy breathing moments as the horse goes to sleep. But this occurs when they go under anaesthetic. It happened to my daughter too when she went under for a major op recently as I remember it upset me when she did it as she seemed to be gasping for air. But she remembers nothing.

 

[fburton]

I got that from a women having her dressage horse pts years ago and he staggered around the stable before he went down - what i was meaning is the fear a horse will feel losing its footing this way and struggling

I see what you mean. That is distressing to see. However, it's possible that these movement are due to spinal reflexes rather than a conscious, voluntary attempt not to fall. With an overdose of anaesthetic, it's the higher brain functions, including consciousness, that go first.

 

[fatpiggy]

Don't forget that many of the horror stories people relate about PTS by injection are from years back. The injections have been constantly refined and improved since then. When they first came out, vets would have to give several syringes to get the job done which some people found upsetting (even though the horse was already unconscious and out of it). My choice personally is the injection, partly because I don't like loud bangs of any description, my horse is frightened by guns and I wouldn't like her last thoughts to be of someone holding one close to her, and I don't want her pretty face spoiled which ok is daft, but that's me. If it was emergency and she had to be shot, I think I'd prefer the hunt or a knackerman to do it - they do dozens every day and are very skilled and quick. As many vets do fewer and fewer with the gun (simply because people now have the choice) there is more chance of a problem occuring I believe. Unfortunately, like anything in life, practice makes perfect.

 

[Persephone]

Just to try and slay some injection myths.

My mare was PTS last Tuesday after breaking her leg in the field.

The vet sedated her, then injected her. She went down straight away, onto her knees, then over onto her side. Exactly like laying down to rest.

Apparently it acts on the brain first, so she was unconsciousness before she was on the floor. (I know, I was holding her) then it stops the heart. Seemed to take a while until the heart had stopped but (only maybe a minute or so) but she was completely unaware.

It was very, very peaceful, given the circumstances.

Please don't let the rumour mill put you off of injections.

 

[Welly]

I have had 2 horses pts in the last 3 years both were shot. One had colic and had to be rushed to Oakham in the middle of the night there was nothing that could be done and he was pts. All the staff were very kind and the bill for the whole thing was around £350. My old boy got colic sunday evening a couple of months ago and was pts again on vets advice this bill was £220 these included removal of their bodies. Both of which I think was a fair price. It seems to me that it costs a lot more in some areas than others. I would ask your vet what he would use if it was his and how much it costs.

 

[cptrayes]

Rare, yes, but circulating horror stories can make some people think it's a significant possibility. Shooting can go wrong too. It would be good to get the true statistics on the failure rates of both methods.


I don't know why a horse would feel terror with an injection (unless it was terrified of injections, but that's different). The anaesthetic is going to reach the brain in a big wave, not a trickle, and when it does consciousness will be lost within a second or two. There's no reason to think it's much different from falling asleep suddenly.

When I had a general anaesthetic two years ago my last few conscious moments were very uncomfortably fearful. My husband had one two months back and reports the same. Of course we knew what was happening to us so it may not be the same with horses, who don't.

Regarding the possible fighting of the injection or going down badly, and being "just a rumour", it is a significant enough risk for my vet to tell everyone to stand at least five metres from the horse. It is rare, but it does happen. The one I saw done last year also appeared to "breathe", and then move, long after she was, technically, dead. It happens with shooting too, but you need to be aware of it or it can be very distressing to see a horse apparently trying to "run away" while on the ground.

The two ways, from the horse's point of view, are much of a muchness I reckon. Having seen both, it comes down to cost for me in the end, the injection is much more expensive and a longer ordeal for the carer. I'd have them shot every time.

 

[MellyMoo]

Thanks for everyones oppinions, it has made me think of things I wouldn't have considered.

The main reason I was opting for the hunt is because my horse in question didnt have a good start in life and has always been a little sensitive. He is particularly sensitive around the vet and not great with needles. I have held one horse being PTS with injection before and I didnt like how long it takes with putting in a catheter etc. This is something I know he wouldnt like.

When considering having him shot I would always have the hunt not vet doing it etc. When I meantioned my thoughts (on having my boy PTS) to my trusted vet, her answer was give him more bute!! Which I don't believe in and also isn't a financial option. This is another reason why I'm swaying away from the vet option. I know there are other vets out there but I do trust her and she is good around the horses. Unfortunately she obviously doesn't agree with my time of this decision.

With regards to place- he is currently out in a big field with his friends but the field has seriously rubbish access. So ive decided to take him to my instructors yard that he's been in before and perfectly happy with. She has also agreed to arrange the deed and be there should I choose not to be there.

 

[fburton]

When I had a general anaesthetic two years ago my last few conscious moments were very uncomfortably fearful. My husband had one two months back and reports the same. Of course we knew what was happening to us so it may not be the same with horses, who don't.

That is true. Another difference is a massive overdose of anaesthetic is given for animal euthanasia, whereas there is no such 'safety margin' for human use.