PTS rather than face an uncertain future - what is the vets perspective on this?

What a sad situation to be in, and I hope that I never have to worry about this with my horses.

However, I will tell you about a very sad situation we found ourselves in earlier this year, and feel free to comment, but please dont judge as I find this hard enough at the best of times, and I am feeling tearful just writing this.

During the end of January my daughter (my Mini TX) brought home a lovely year old staffie that had been dumped at the pet shop that they both worked in at the time. She had spent the day wheedling and persuading me and my OH to take him in and we agreed to keep him until the RSPCA or staffie rescue could take him in. I spent a lot of time phoning around and the local staffie rescue couldnt take him as they were full up and the RSPCA said they would only PTS as nobody wanted the bull breeds, and the Dogs Trust were full up as well and could not accept him. By the time we had owned him a week, he had wormed our way into our hearts and we decided to keep him. So, we bought him a new bed, bowls, leads, decent food as he was thin and covered in scars, paid for him to be vaccinated and booked a future date for him to be castrated. He started to thrive and put on weight.

He was a real cuddle monster, and loved to sit on laps, or on the settee, and loved nice long walks with us. He adored people, and didnt seem to mind other dogs as well.

However, one afternoon my OH, who works from home, took him out for a long walk to clear his head, and found a field where he normally walked him, and checked to see if there were any other dogs around, as I have friends with staffies and then can be a bit unpredictable with other dogs. There was nobody around so he let him off to have a good run. However, he shot off and the next thing my OH heard was shouting. He had grabbed a tiny yorkie by the neck and was shaking him. while the yorkies's owner screamed at us.

My OH managed to separate them and got bitten in the process. He had abuse screamed at him by the other dogs owner and her family. He grabbed our dog and took him home. Within the next hour the dog warden had turned up (he gave his details to the other owner), and a local vet contacted us regarding having a 'dangerous dog'. The dog warden (who was lovely by the way) instructed us that he had now to be muzzled at all times and kept on a lead at all times. The Police were contacted, but they didnt want to know. The other owner got in touch and was abusive in the extreme and demanded that he was PTS.

My OH was terribly shaken by all of this and made a decision that he either went to the RSPCA or we had him PTS ourselves. He was now scared of him. From talking to the dog warden, he had probably been used to fight as well. Mini TX was distraught as she loved him dearly, even though we only kept him a month, and we made the decision to not pass the problem on.

Our vet was great, but not happy to put a healthy dog to sleep. My OH had to explain what happened as I was too upset to do it, and after a fairly long consulation she agreed to do it. We were both with him when he went, and he died licking my face and wagging his tail. It was one of the most awaful days I have ever had. I have been with all my pets at the end, but they were always either very old or sick, and it was a release for them, but this dog was full of life and healthy. However, the vet did agree with us in the end that at least it was more humane that he want with people who loved him and without any knowledge of what was happening, than being sent to a dog pound, and then being PTS with a stranger.

After talking to the dog warden afterwards, she agreed we made the right decision, in fact the other owner was putting pressure on her to get us to do it. We also got landed with the other owners vet bills, even though she used the PDSA, which was annoying, but we paid up without complaint.

Coming back to horses - would I have my horses PTS rather than face an uncertain future then yes I would do it.
 
TheoryX1 said:
What a sad situation to be in, and I hope that I never have to worry about this with my horses.

However, I will tell you about a very sad situation we found ourselves in earlier this year, and feel free to comment, but please dont judge as I find this hard enough at the best of times, and I am feeling tearful just writing this.

During the end of January my daughter (my Mini TX) brought home a lovely year old staffie that had been dumped at the pet shop that they both worked in at the time. She had spent the day wheedling and persuading me and my OH to take him in and we agreed to keep him until the RSPCA or staffie rescue could take him in. I spent a lot of time phoning around and the local staffie rescue couldnt take him as they were full up and the RSPCA said they would only PTS as nobody wanted the bull breeds, and the Dogs Trust were full up as well and could not accept him. By the time we had owned him a week, he had wormed our way into our hearts and we decided to keep him. So, we bought him a new bed, bowls, leads, decent food as he was thin and covered in scars, paid for him to be vaccinated and booked a future date for him to be castrated. He started to thrive and put on weight.

He was a real cuddle monster, and loved to sit on laps, or on the settee, and loved nice long walks with us. He adored people, and didnt seem to mind other dogs as well.

However, one afternoon my OH, who works from home, took him out for a long walk to clear his head, and found a field where he normally walked him, and checked to see if there were any other dogs around, as I have friends with staffies and then can be a bit unpredictable with other dogs. There was nobody around so he let him off to have a good run. However, he shot off and the next thing my OH heard was shouting. He had grabbed a tiny yorkie by the neck and was shaking him. while the yorkies's owner screamed at us.

My OH managed to separate them and got bitten in the process. He had abuse screamed at him by the other dogs owner and her family. He grabbed our dog and took him home. Within the next hour the dog warden had turned up (he gave his details to the other owner), and a local vet contacted us regarding having a 'dangerous dog'. The dog warden (who was lovely by the way) instructed us that he had now to be muzzled at all times and kept on a lead at all times. The Police were contacted, but they didnt want to know. The other owner got in touch and was abusive in the extreme and demanded that he was PTS.

My OH was terribly shaken by all of this and made a decision that he either went to the RSPCA or we had him PTS ourselves. He was now scared of him. From talking to the dog warden, he had probably been used to fight as well. Mini TX was distraught as she loved him dearly, even though we only kept him a month, and we made the decision to not pass the problem on.

Our vet was great, but not happy to put a healthy dog to sleep. My OH had to explain what happened as I was too upset to do it, and after a fairly long consulation she agreed to do it. We were both with him when he went, and he died licking my face and wagging his tail. It was one of the most awaful days I have ever had. I have been with all my pets at the end, but they were always either very old or sick, and it was a release for them, but this dog was full of life and healthy. However, the vet did agree with us in the end that at least it was more humane that he want with people who loved him and without any knowledge of what was happening, than being sent to a dog pound, and then being PTS with a stranger.

After talking to the dog warden afterwards, she agreed we made the right decision, in fact the other owner was putting pressure on her to get us to do it. We also got landed with the other owners vet bills, even though she used the PDSA, which was annoying, but we paid up without complaint.

Coming back to horses - would I have my horses PTS rather than face an uncertain future then yes I would do it.
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TX that is awful. It's hard to know what calls to make when y haven't had a dog long and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I do think you made a safe decision for the dog. Better to go happy than to go anxious and stressed with strangers around.

I rescued a collie with extreme dog aggression and it was 2 years before I could trust her to be off lead. Luckily my dogs always come to call, but...because I am not so stupid to think I am more important to them than absolutely anything, me and Dan are really overly cautious. Having four, if one of them started for any reason, we'd have a bloodbath.

My Other collie Stig has nipped a few people...ignorant people completely ignoring me and Dan, but nevertheless, nipped them and it is a truly horrible feeling to have to think about putting to sleep a perfectly healthy dog. If Stig ever really attacked anyone, I think I too would make the same choice as you rather than risk him going with strangers to face the same end.

Luckily for me, Dan and I got a lot more firm and when other people assure us now that they will do as we say...we just don't believe them. We have a tried and tested way of introducing Stig to new people now and it works...last weekend he had all sorts of strangers coming up and he was playing with them beautifully, but it could be so very different if me and Dan weren't on the ball.

I really am sorry for you having to go through that :(
 
TX
I'd say you did completely the right thing, I'm hardly surprised the owners of the little Yorkie were angry, their pet dog was viciously attacked right in front of them, they must have been terrified.
Very sad that it happened after you gave the Staffie a chance.
A friend of mine was savaged almost to death by her own 2 dogs after they started fighting each other, she'd had both from pups. Two weeks in intensive care gave her time to come to terms with having to have her much loved pets pts....

On topic, I'm surprised by the stories of vets refusing to pts. Maybe encourage the owner to sell if it's a youngish, useful horse but even they can be unlucky and get a bad home.
 
Then it comes to what is clincal indication?outwardly my mare looks very healthy but inside her head is different plus her sight? Mixed with me moving 45 miles away and due to her issues moving is not option plus many other reasons i have made decision. i vowed the day i bought 7 years ago i would be her last home i understand her needs her stress and how her mind works
 
I do feel that there is starting to become a trend, especially in small animal vets to be reluctant to PTS unless heroic efforts to treat are made beforehand.

In the past 3 years I've been unlucky enough to lose 3 dogs

1) a stroke of some sort, very sudden and severe. In the 20 minutes getting to the vets you could see her deteriorate. Didn't see my usual vet as it was OOH so I was given the option of travelling 75 miles for a MRI or PTS. As the MRI would only give info not treatment I opted to PTS as the dog was already 13 and so ill. My own vet was very quick to say that xyz could have been tried the next time I saw her - not helpful at that point, was it?
2) 21 year old terrier, had already had 3 appts for PTS in the past year (but always rallied at the last minute) and at the point I decided it was time had had an undetermined infection for 6 weeks. The ABs were causing stomach upsets that stopped her eating and getting her painkillers. Off the ABs she was happy and eating but the infection would come back and make her miserable again...I said enough after 3 courses of treatment. A different vet at the same practice as above really pressured me to continue while I was sitting on the floor with the dog on a drip in my lap (she howled and stressed if she was left at the vets) and then refused a home visit to PTS. Another vet practice sent a vet out a few days later to PTS at home. Needless to say I changed vets.
3) A rottweiler with many health issues over the years (there's a thread or 10 about him on here) and when he was referred to the AHT they were VERY keen to encourage me to start major treatment. Not nasty or snide about it like my previous vets but as hindsight proved right, it really wouldn't have been the right decision for him but they did make me doubt myself.

I personally pick equine vets that a) I like and can communicate with b) are part of a practice that has enough vets to cover emergencies and c) that are prepared to work with me not against me. Don't get me wrong I do listen to them, no point paying them if you don't rate them is there? The pushy small animal vets did teach me that much.

There is one local equine vet that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole because he will push very hard with emotional blackmail for owners to continue - I have heard him do so myself, Mind you, he is a t**t anyway with the ego the size of a planet so I think that he feels a failure if he can't save every horse...

While we still have knackermen and the hunts horse owners will be ok. They aren't judgemental and are affordable. I sometimes read an American forum (CoTH) and it isn't unusual to see threads where owners are at their wits end because their vets refuse to PTS without a strong medical reason. The inability of the owner to afford to care for their horses for whatever reason doesn't seem to register - and as they don't routinely have the access to hunts, slaughter houses or knackermen it leaves them with very few options except the vet to PTS. That would scare me tbh.
 
I wouldn't ask the vet, I'd call the hunt. They are a lot more pragmatic about livestock than your average small animal/horse vet and some times that is what you need

That or a proper large animal/farm vet who views a horse as any other livestock.
 
amymay said:
But they can and do refuse. There is no law or compunction that insists that they must put an animal down if the owner requests it.
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Well they are just people providing a service for which they are paid so I think that they do have the right not to provide a service.
Many years ago I had a vet refuse to put down a healthy looking but vicious 3yo horse .
The horse would randomly attack people and had always had done one day it knocked me out with it forelegs and I was lucky to get away with being concussed and bruised .
I was upset that the vet did not do it it would have been easier on her to be sedated before but the hunt did it two hours after the vet refused.
The vet may refuse but an owner can always just find another way.
 
Bizarre and somewhat hypocritical considering that most, if not all of these vets will be eating meat... from young healthy livestock. How is the life of, say a dog worth more than that of a young steer? I do wonder how much of it is in fact financially motivated, or as a previous owner stated - an ego trip. I'm very lucky to have an excellent vets practice who cover both my horses and smaller pets, they have the animals best interests at heart.
 
We had a terrible experience with my in-laws elderly dog. Vet wouldn't PTS when he was on his last legs. When my MIL brought him back a few days later she saw a different vet who gave her a severe telling off at the state of the dog... It was very upsetting. :(
 
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