PTS would you help?

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Welly

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I read all the time about horse welfare charities being full to overflowing with horses and ponies that owners can’t keep for various reasons. I have looked at the animals to be re-homed on the WHW website and as I write this, there are 5 animals capable of being ridden, the rest being too young, too old, or injured. This made me think! If you take out the young ones, nearly all the horses that these charities are taking in are perhaps ones that most readers of this forum would PTS.

So why are they ending up with charities? Is it that owners can’t or won’t make the decision for themselves and if so why? Is it too heart breaking for them, is it they don’t know how to do it, or maybe it is just the cost.

I think there a need for a voluntary organization made up of caring people who would help people at this time. The Organisation could arrange for their horse to be PTS, be with them or their animals at this time and if funds could be raised, help with the cost. Would you help a person in this situation? Alternatively, perhaps the animal charities should have a dedicated team to help and advise people who for whatever reason are in this position.

I don’t want to start another slanging match on this forum, I just want to start a debate about how we can help stop horses having to be rescued in the first place. Do you have another idea?
As someone famous recently said. “I throw that open”.
 
When horses are taken from an owner and the owner is to be prosecuted the horse forms part of the case until the case is over the horse cannot be PTS ( unless a vet deems there is an acute need to do so ) as the court may order its return to the owner so the RSPCA spend an arm and leg on the horse then say six months down the line the case comes to court and if the RSPCA win they are left with a horse who may many chronic things wrong with it by then they have spent a fortune the staff at the centre have nursed it and they do get attached as they nurse some very sick horses through this is a reason that they end up with lots of companions .
Also they certainly used to run waiting lists for people wanting horses so the sound ones do disappear fast.
There is no doult that rescues are full of horses that I would PTS if they belonged to me.
I am all for the BHS friend at the end scheme but think people should fund PTS them selves its not others peoples job to fund others to PTS which is the responsibility a knackerman or a hunt does not cost a lot of money .
 
A good post Welly. I've put my arguments, ad-nausium, so there seems little point in repeating myself! I await the replies of others, with interest.

You've made some positive and worthwhile suggestions, and in answer to your questions, and because I'm no stranger to the routine of slaughter, so all my answers are in the affirmative. I have in the past and would always in the future, assist anyone who was reasonably local.

Alec.
 
I would gladly help either by being there, making the phone calls, dealing with vet/knackerman etc. I would not and could not help financially, I have my own animals to think of. I think the BHS Friends at the End scheme is admirable-should maybe be better advertised though!
 
Alec Swan said:
A good post Welly. I've put my arguments, ad-nausium, so there seems little point in repeating myself! I await the replies of others, with interest.

You've made some positive and worthwhile suggestions, and in answer to your questions, and because I'm no stranger to the routine of slaughter, so all my answers are in the affirmative. I have in the past and would always in the future, assist anyone who was reasonably local.

Alec.
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Me too. I'm a quality of life person and would call time on anything that did not have that option, I'm certainly not someone that would try to keep at any cost as some do, especially the charities; they seem to think they have failed if they don't regardless of the cost to that horse and the amount they spend on one could have meant a few more could have been helped.
 
One of the head honchos at Redwings says that the advice he always gives people asking about buying their first horse is put £800 in an out of the way account & leave it there. You can plan to use hunt etc but if your horse colics at 3am / breaks a leg on a hunt day etc you may have no choice but injection & cremation.
The BHS scheme is admirable & have recommended it to a couple of people but I suspect that if there was help in paying there will always be people who can afford it prepared to scam the system. I would help a friend or fellow livery with the practicalities & if I didn't work full time would probably look at getting involved in the BHS scheme.
 
The other thing he said was that if they didn't go all the way to try & save the horses they took in a large proportion of the donations would dry up. I guess in that respect they are caught betwen a rock & a hard place & I have sympathy with their actions even where I would take the pts decision for my own horse.
 
My understanding is that most big charities are not taking in private horses from people at the moment but only taking welfare cases so for the horses listed on these websites I don't think they in particular will be healthy horses who are just old/lame and have been dumped on a charity but ones who have been neglected or abused, in these cases I imagine it is difficult at the outset to know whether with decent care these horses will recover enough to have a useful life or not.

For horses who are healthy enough to make a good companion without lots of special care or medication I personally don't see anything wrong with the charities trying to rehome these horses if possible especially the youngsters or an older horse who doesn't have any major medical issues, for the ones who are lame and who will not recover or need medication then I think that it would probably be sensible to consider having these PTS to make room for others who need help.
 
The BHS Welfare Officers will talk things through with the owners. We had a talk once and the officer said he often gets calls from someone with, e.g. a 23 year old pony with sweetich and laminitis and would someone give it a good home and he usually tries to persuade them to PTS. Often it is just someone "in authority" to make the decision and take the responsibility from the owner. It is a hard thing to condem an animal to death (just had to do it). I agree about some of the ponies in charities, but there is a role for some of them.

It isn't that expensive, under £200 for a pony.
 
The ultimate responsibility of owning any animal is taking that last decision, unfortunately too many people won't do it and will pass the problem on to someone else. It irritates the hell out of me when you see ads for unrideable/aged animals being sold or given away because the owner won't do the right thing.
And yes, I would help.
 
I have had this debate on another forum. An English lady returning to the UK, is trying to rehome an aged French Trotter. Like ex-track TB's they get thrown away in their thousands. If she rehomes this horse it will sooner or later finish up in an auction for the knacker.

She should do the decent thing and have the horse pts.

I would never rehome an old horse.

By the way Welly, I understand that some pure CB's went for slaughter not long ago.
 
There are far too many Old infirm neglected horses in the country, I think it is down to Irresponsible breeding from some ignorant ill informed individuals the traveling community who no longer travel and rely on their horses. Owners who wont face up to their resposibility of having old or dangerous horses put to sleep,"just pass the problem on", and the fact that in general horses are now more regarded as pets than working animals and people keep them hanging on to the bitter end seeming to think it kinder to have dragged out of the mud on the end of the Knackermans winch wire rather than having them PTS with Dignity at an earlier date.
In all honesty how many horses languishing in well meaning charities and dubious rescue centres are only treading mud before their inevitable end, and it would be far kinder for them to be PTS.
I am not a callous uncaring person it is because I care so much I have these views we are looking at horrendous longrange forcast for the winter things are not going to improve.
 
Hairy Old Cob said:
There are far too many Old infirm neglected horses in the country, I think it is down to Irresponsible breeding from some ignorant ill informed individuals the traveling community who no longer travel and rely on their horses. Owners who wont face up to their resposibility of having old or dangerous horses put to sleep,"just pass the problem on", and the fact that in general horses are now more regarded as pets than working animals and people keep them hanging on to the bitter end seeming to think it kinder to have dragged out of the mud on the end of the Knackermans winch wire rather than having them PTS with Dignity at an earlier date.
In all honesty how many horses languishing in well meaning charities and dubious rescue centres are only treading mud before their inevitable end, and it would be far kinder for them to be PTS.
I am not a callous uncaring person it is because I care so much I have these views we are looking at horrendous longrange forcast for the winter things are not going to improve.
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I've been singing in your choir off the same hymn sheet for some time; nice to have some sensible company at last.
 
Over here (Ireland) we are discussing a cull in the form of a slaughter premium to encourage people to reduce the numbers. This should have been done a long time ago IMO.
 
Some owners will only contact the welfare charities as a last resport, they then dont have funds left to PTS but perhaps rely on good natured friends for livery bill/fodder.
They are then between a rock and a hard place - they cannot afford to keep animal - cannot afford to transport to Potters (which is currently a 6-7 week wait).

Those cash strapped cannot afford to keep for the time till they can hire transport to take said equine to slaughter, nor then afford the transport.

Also, now that vets are getting everyone to sign section 9 of the passports, the animals can no longer be taken for a fee paid tothe owner -the owner has to now pay for disposal costs!!

So - ideas??

The Blue cross will help for small animals, who could be approached for equines?
 
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Hairy Old Cob said:
There are far too many Old infirm neglected horses in the country, I think it is down to Irresponsible breeding from some ignorant ill informed individuals the traveling community who no longer travel and rely on their horses. Owners who wont face up to their resposibility of having old or dangerous horses put to sleep,"just pass the problem on", and the fact that in general horses are now more regarded as pets than working animals and people keep them hanging on to the bitter end seeming to think it kinder to have dragged out of the mud on the end of the Knackermans winch wire rather than having them PTS with Dignity at an earlier date.
In all honesty how many horses languishing in well meaning charities and dubious rescue centres are only treading mud before their inevitable end, and it would be far kinder for them to be PTS.
I am not a callous uncaring person it is because I care so much I have these views we are looking at horrendous longrange forcast for the winter things are not going to improve.
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Absolutely agree 100%…
 
I am a beliver in quality of life and will and have take responsibiliy of making that decision But having worked in a charity your first thoughts when that ramp gies down isnt thats aged lets pts to sleep.your first thoughts are to get that poor neglected soul comfy. yes sometimes they maybe to far gone and to pts is only option but if not you give them a chance. Think back a couple of years to the rescue on here of Spud & carrot.2 aged horses in horrific condition. Barnsby rest home fought to help those horses and against odds they survived and went on to enjoy a couple of years of love and kindness before being pts with dignity. was barnsby wrong not to pts straight away? Yes you can argue they were but personally i think not and i bet spud &carrot would agree to :)
 
I have something of a quandary really. I have a nearly 40 year old Pony that is owned by a charity and has lived with us for nearly 20 years. Both my daughters learned to ride on him and he was a good teacher of "Concentrate or bear the consequences". Last year I was working away and he got terrible mud fever and the yard, the Vet and my daughter struggled to get him through it and he made it to the Spring looking like a Hat rack but with a real love for life and the ladies that was impossible to ignore. All year I have said that as soon as he is miserable and not galloping about making a nusiance of himself I would let him go but here we are in November and he's moved yards and is now in stabled livery and he's rude, manner-less, wees everywhere thinks he's Casanova, has soft food only and still properly enjoys himself. We have another pony that we gave to someone on the promise of a forever home, he's 14.3, 16yrs old, too fine to put anyone over 8stone on and beautiful but had no job with us hence his move to someone who has a few horses to teach local youngsters to ride and carefor and do some showing with.
Apparently he's been bolting and the lady want s to pass him onto someone else. My quandary is that if my old pony was pts then I could have the other pony back and see how bad he really is OR I could insist that her be PTS by this Lady who has no further want of him OR I could put them both down and take on something that could potentially do a job with us.
What would you do?
 
A quandary indeed Amaranth99, and one that many other people are having. Many have their old retired or ill/permanently lame horses about the place and would dearly like to be able to afford a useful horse........ rideable aswell. There is so much peer /charity/vet pressure to keep these animals going. The pony owned by the charity could be returned to them provided it is still in business (a friend had one under similar circumstances but the charity had disbanded so she had her pts at home..... the pony was 46years old) Obviously the other pony looks as if it is your responsibility unless there was some sort of written agreement or it has been transferred into the other persons ownership....... personally I'd be asking her to have him pts unless you really want him back. Or if needs must I'd put them both down.

In answer to the original post, yes we do support people who ask us to help or been there for the horses at the last.
 
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If I could afford to retire a horse I could no longer ride and support a new horse then I would but most people's salary doesn't stretch that far.

There ar a lot of horses that end up having a very useful purposeful and happy life at the blood bank, the only criteria it would seem is that the animal isn't a complete loop case and it can live drug free and be of the type of build (to allow the correct volume of blood to be collected).

Most people rule out blood banks - I think its the biggest urban myth in the horse world. I think people think their horses will be strapped down and forced to give pints of blood. Apparently the opposite is true and horses practically skip in to the sessions to give blood (once every two months I believe) as they get a token feed and a bit of fuss of a human.

The horses live out 24/7 in the summer and from around Oct to April are housed in huge barns with ad lib hay. They are able to develop healthy relationships in a herd environment and live as close to nature as is possible to live i.e. the ideal life a horse would want.

Shame more people don't agree and there aren't more centres to give this fantastic opportunity and retirement.
 
the bloodbank won't suit all horses though Applecart. Its not a bad life at all but the ones I know, the horses are in very big herds (in the region of 70 mares/geldings) and barn kept, deep litter throughout the winter. Ones that don't fit in/get bullied/sick or don't keep condition easily don't last long although I agree the actual blood taking is insignificant in an animal that size. to my knowledge they are bled fortnightly (can be less int he summer when PCV goes up).
They are also businesses and those horses that are no longer any use are sent to the abattoir. Again, thats not so bad either depending on you POV but people shouldn't be given the idea that its all meadows and flowers and will last forever. They are farmed for their blood for blood products and some will be happy with that and some won't.
 
applecart14 said:
If I could afford to retire a horse I could no longer ride and support a new horse then I would but most people's salary doesn't stretch that far.

There ar a lot of horses that end up having a very useful purposeful and happy life at the blood bank, the only criteria it would seem is that the animal isn't a complete loop case and it can live drug free and be of the type of build (to allow the correct volume of blood to be collected).

Most people rule out blood banks - I think its the biggest urban myth in the horse world. I think people think their horses will be strapped down and forced to give pints of blood. Apparently the opposite is true and horses practically skip in to the sessions to give blood (once every two months I believe) as they get a token feed and a bit of fuss of a human.

The horses live out 24/7 in the summer and from around Oct to April are housed in huge barns with ad lib hay. They are able to develop healthy relationships in a herd environment and live as close to nature as is possible to live i.e. the ideal life a horse would want.

Shame more people don't agree and there aren't more centres to give this fantastic opportunity and retirement.
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It's hardly an answer to the thousands of unwanted horses in this country, they take only a small number each year and only up to the age of 15 when they are slaughtered. It's also not the paradise for horses that you seem to think it is and is an irrelevance in this debate.
 
Alec I so agree with you. I'm sure I've said before that you should run the country!!! Excuse the pun but so many more people should be prepared to "bite the bullet" and be prepared to make that awful decision. If you are not prepared to make the ultimate decision then perhaps ownership is not an option. I have held animals for others and believe that "going" with at least a known human with them is far more settling for an animal than as someone said "being winched through the mud". Quality over quantity of life anyday.
 
My old lads are with me until they start showing signs of being unhappy, the day the look depressed will be the day I pick up the phone and truth be told I'm dreading it. I'm very lucky to have a great vet who is very good when it comes to this type of situation and I'd certainly value the help of someone experienced just to be around. I hope in turn I would be able to help someone else, but since I've never held one myself, I have no idea how I'd react.

I frequently read FB posts of horses for sale and think to myself "he/she would be better off being PTS" too many elderly/damaged horses being passed from piller to post. Only today I saw a wee 5yr old, bonny thing but, and I quote "Free to very good home I desperately want to keep this girl but I just cant manage anymore. She walks like she's poo'd herself, I think its possibly stringholt, the vet isnt sure" sorry, but WHY would you pass on this mare? It took me all my restraint not to say "put her to sleep".
 
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