PTSD in horses…

[maya2008]

Any tips on how to help them? Newest pony was in with all geldings and we bought her with full disclosure that they had fought over her and bullied her. She was covered in scrapes, and has a panic reaction that matches the feeling/sight (for her) of being mounted by a gelding. We’re working on desensitisation and have her in her own paddock so she feels safe, but if she was a human I would definitely send her to a shrink for some help! So…what do you do with a horse beyond what we are doing (gentle daily desensitisation work). Is there a supplement maybe that would help in the meantime? I am aware that eventually, time and replacing bad experiences with good will fix the problem, but if there’s anything else we can do in the meantime, it would be good to know.

 

[bonny]

Any tips on how to help them? Newest pony was in with all geldings and we bought her with full disclosure that they had fought over her and bullied her. She was covered in scrapes, and has a panic reaction that matches the feeling/sight (for her) of being mounted by a gelding. We’re working on desensitisation and have her in her own paddock so she feels safe, but if she was a human I would definitely send her to a shrink for some help! So…what do you do with a horse beyond what we are doing (gentle daily desensitisation work). Is there a supplement maybe that would help in the meantime? I am aware that eventually, time and replacing bad experiences with good will fix the problem, but if there’s anything else we can do in the meantime, it would be good to know.

I think you need to be careful not to confuse human reactions to animals. I also wouldn’t keep her on her own but find a quiet companion for her.

 

[maya2008]

I think you need to be careful not to confuse human reactions to animals. I also wouldn’t keep her on her own but find a quiet companion for her.

She has one over the fence, who will eventually be in with her.

We are not wired very differently to them. I’ve had a pony with the pony version of ptsd who had seen a car accident kill her friend in the New Forest - reacted similarly to this one, on sight of a car. Took years of desensitisation to get her reliable in traffic. Currently have one with an issue with strange men (shakes in fear, panics and tries to get away). Have had a dog affected for the rest of her life by an attack when she was a puppy… and I know a horse who is similarly affected because another horse went for her and broke her leg and when she was young. Saying that animals are not affected long-term (and sometimes severely so) by their experiences is just…

 

[planete]

I cannot suggest anything I am afraid apart from time and desensitisation as you already know but I agree that animals can certainly suffer long lasting trauma. Your post reminds me of a friend's mare who could not bear to be followed by a gelding out riding as she would panic. She had been bred before my friend owned her.

 

[stangs]

Bach flower remedies? For her, you'd be looking at mimulus or rock rose. The idea would be to give her the remedy before you do the desensitisation work with her, or before you introduce her to another horse, etc. Smelling lavender oil is also said to help calm horses. Alternatively, you could try feeding lemon balm, scullcap, or chamomile. They're supposed to help with nervousness, but, of course, if she's genuinely been traumatised, supplements won't achieve much.

Might also be worth getting an acupuncturist out - both because some horses find it relaxing, and also to help with muscle soreness along the back if she's been mounted a lot.

 

[PurBee]

If all she’s ever known is rough geldings, she might benefit from being very slowly introduced to a ‘next door’ paddock pal who is known to be a very gentle companion. This will, in time, help her develop trusting a herd again. 1 gentle horse at a time.

Their herd instinct to be ‘safe’ around other horses will have been distorted having experienced only a gang of rough geldings. So she has learnt a herd to be ‘unsafe’, which goes against her innate neuro-instinctual-wiring.
Helping to repair that learning with known gentle horses, and the desensitisation work you are already doing, will slowly over time (depending on her age, time spent with the geldings etc) bring her round.

If she’s very highly stressed/panicy in her everyday demeanour, an all-round ‘relaxing’ herb mix in a bowl feed for a few weeks, could help take the edge off. They’d likely contain chamomile and valerian, both of these herbs dont want to be taken continuously, long-term by the way. (Despite what the marketing gumph on the product says) They’re gently sedating. The dose needed to make a horse sleepy like they do in humans would need to be about 10 full teaspoons of chamomile, so never give that much daily.
Being too zonked on a high dose of relaxing herbs can have a paradoxical effect, and cause her more stress, because she’s fighting the sedation, having learnt she cant relax and needs to be alert/on guard all the time.
Therefore, Use herb mixes carefully, even consider homeopathic dose of just 1 or 2 teaspoon just to knock the edge off if shes daily stressed at the moment, due to change of home/recent bullying.

If her paddock has a hedge of various bushes/trees, many of them contain relaxants and she will likely self-medicate.

Ultimately, she’ll learn that all of life doesnt involve bullying geldings and there’s some nicer experiences of being a horse, with your gentle care, and she’ll relax and grow in confidence. In these cases, time IS the ultimate healer.

It’s a really lovely thing you’ve done to take this mare on and help her.

 

[PurBee]

Ive just seen your post about her paddock pal - that's great! That will go a long way to teach and prove to her, not all horses are rough.

I agree, animals live for moment to moment usually, when brought-up healthily, and dont consider yesterday or tomorrow (unlike humans), but like us humans, animals have memory function - and like us, can get ‘triggered’ today by something that reminds them of a stressful event of the past.

Animals dont generally catastrophise / over-think a stressful event like humans, but with flight animals, an ongoing stress response from an ongoing stressed environment, is un-natural, and will train their stress endocrine system to be ‘on’ all the time. Removal from the environment and plenty of relaxing experiences will re-write and re-balance the neuro-endocrine system.

For this mare, any gelding showing interest in her while in heat could trigger her stress (moreso than the average mare). Even being in heat might trigger her to be stressy, as her neuro-endocrine system has associated being in heat to being hounded by geldings. This isn’t a conscious mind response, its a deeper instinctual ‘survival‘ neuro-endocrine response system she cannot control. She needs to experience being in heat away from gelding for a while.

If she was with gelding for 3 years being hounded it’ll be a more significant learning for her neuro-pathways, than if she was hounded for 6 months in a field of geldings, and knew a healthy herd dynamic before the gelding herd experience.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

I definitely agree PTSD/something similar can be experienced by all kinds of animals, certainly including horses. Really great that you are taking active steps to try to help her. I'm more familiar with the dog training side of things rather than the horse side, but sounds like you're on the right track. When it comes to desensitization make sure that you are actively making it a positive experience via rewards of some type (counterconditioning) and staying under threshold level rather than accidentally flooding and inducing "acceptance" that is actually learned helplessness. I would also super encourage you to see if there is a proper, qualified animal behaviorist who specializes in horses nearby. For example Melanie Watson (https://www.instinctivehorsetraining.co.uk/) could be a good person to check out. I have never worked with her myself, but follow her on Facebook and it's always so great to see the work she does with horses and their people. Good luck! Your mare is really lucky to have someone like you.

 

[maya2008]

I definitely agree PTSD/something similar can be experienced by all kinds of animals, certainly including horses. Really great that you are taking active steps to try to help her. I'm more familiar with the dog training side of things rather than the horse side, but sounds like you're on the right track. When it comes to desensitization make sure that you are actively making it a positive experience via rewards of some type (counterconditioning) and staying under threshold level rather than accidentally flooding and inducing "acceptance" that is actually learned helplessness. I would also super encourage you to see if there is a proper, qualified animal behaviorist who specializes in horses nearby. For example Melanie Watson (https://www.instinctivehorsetraining.co.uk/) could be a good person to check out. I have never worked with her myself, but follow her on Facebook and it's always so great to see the work she does with horses and their people. Good luck! Your mare is really lucky to have someone like you.

Thanks for the recommendation! If we get stuck I will definitely give her a call. It took a while to figure out her exact triggers, so we’re now working more successfully. Aim is not to have a panicked pony leaving at speed!!! She loves my daughter and is much happier around her and me than the male members of my family, so we are doing the work with her. Poor baby used to drop her haunches and go to run if you so much as touched her from behind. She’s now fine to be patted all over with just the odd quiver, so we are making progress!

She’s extremely grateful for her separate accommodations and is interested in talking to both the main herd and her future friend over the fence. She’s not been in a field with another mare since she was 10 months old, to my knowledge, so future friend is an old Shetland mare.

When we went to see her, we agreed this wasn’t the most sensible financial decision buying her, but that we felt we had to bring her home. We have a calm, settled herd with plenty of mares, and males gelded early enough they wouldn’t know how to mount a mare. I hope that by the time she eventually leaves here (when she is outgrown), it is all just a very faded distant memory.

 

[SEL]

I'm glad you bought her! Poor girl. Hopefully you can keep us posted on how she does.

 

[Caol Ila]

I read a fascinating book a couple years ago called Animal Madness by Laurel Braitman. It's based on her PhD thesis, where she scientifically examines what, for all intents and purposes, can be described as mental illness in animals. I recommend it.

I think horses are very prone to reacting to remembered trauma. Whether you call it PTSD or not. My horse was rounded up, twice, by quad bikes, and he is not happy when he sees a quad bike. You can't blame him.

 

[vhf]

Any tips on how to help them?

I am 99% certain my little mare had PTSD . When triggered she would turn into a quivering heap, and if then pressed, would try and rear, freeze, shake and run backwards all at once. Distressing for both of us. It didn't always happen, but when it did it was obvious and dramatic. She DID improve, I would say no longer has the flashbacks (if that's what was going on) but I don't think she will ever be confident in those situations that used to potentially set her off.
I put her on valerian root. It seemed to give her time to think before she reacted, or who knows, maybe helped to dull the flashbacks?
Either way, I'd say it took 4 years before she recovered from the 'PTSD' if that's what it was, and I kept her on the valerian for as long as I continued putting her in her stress situation. I suspect a long-remembered stressful event isn't the same as PTSD, (I've known so many with issues/bad experiences but only her with what I'd call PTSD). Time, consistency and patience above all else, and accepting that occasionally things aren't fixable and you have to work around them.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am 99% certain my little mare had PTSD . When triggered she would turn into a quivering heap, and if then pressed, would try and rear, freeze, shake and run backwards all at once. Distressing for both of us. It didn't always happen, but when it did it was obvious and dramatic. She DID improve, I would say no longer has the flashbacks (if that's what was going on) but I don't think she will ever be confident in those situations that used to potentially set her off.
I put her on valerian root. It seemed to give her time to think before she reacted, or who knows, maybe helped to dull the flashbacks?
Either way, I'd say it took 4 years before she recovered from the 'PTSD' if that's what it was, and I kept her on the valerian for as long as I continued putting her in her stress situation. I suspect a long-remembered stressful event isn't the same as PTSD, (I've known so many with issues/bad experiences but only her with what I'd call PTSD). Time, consistency and patience above all else, and accepting that occasionally things aren't fixable and you have to work around them.

And yet received wisdom is that animals 'live in the moment'. I don't agree, or they wouldn't be trainable.
OP, your pony is lucky that you bought her and are prepared to work with her issues.

 

[vhf]

And yet received wisdom is that animals 'live in the moment'. I don't agree, or they wouldn't be trainable.
OP, your pony is lucky that you bought her and are prepared to work with her issues.

@Pearlsasinger there is certainly more we don't know than do! But I think possibly they are more 'in the moment' than we are. Or at least, they process differently to us. So memory and learned behaviour (previous experience) are more important to their current and future behaviour than with humans, who think around the subject and are influenced by their motivations more perhaps? Maybe why humankind seems doomed to repeat failures while given time and space, the animal kingdom more widely seems able to learn and change! Or maybe I am just cynical...

But I agree, the OP's pony is a lucky one.

 

[maya2008]

Thanks all - I have considered a calmer (calming cookies maybe?) to maybe give her help transitioning from the almost flashback-like primal terror of her current reaction, to plain fear but with the brain engaged (which is much easier to deal with!).

Also keep wondering about an ulcer supplement - surely living with that much constant hassling (and the resultant scrapes etc) might have given her ulcers?

 

[Caol Ila]

I have my tricky Highland on Valerian. I think it helps. He's not stoned, but it just gives him a bit more space to process things rather than going into panic-mode at speed. The vet did his teeth today, and we managed it under super light sedation, which was an improvement over him being completely off his face, which is what we had to do 7 months ago.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks all - I have considered a calmer (calming cookies maybe?) to maybe give her help transitioning from the almost flashback-like primal terror of her current reaction, to plain fear but with the brain engaged (which is much easier to deal with!).

Also keep wondering about an ulcer supplement - surely living with that much constant hassling (and the resultant scrapes etc) might have given her ulcers?

I would at least give her Aloe Vera juice and an ulcer-friendly high fibre diet.

 

[ycbm]

And yet received wisdom is that animals 'live in the moment'. I don't agree, or they wouldn't be trainable.

Training creates a reaction to a stimulus. Re-present the stimulus and they re-present the behaviour.

Not living in the moment would mean they are thinking about the previous times the stimulus was presented. I don't believe they are, but simply reacting to the current stimulus.
.

 

[palo1]

Horses certainly can be 'traumatised' in a way that we understand but PTSD itself is quite linked to the way that humans process memories and the way that the human brain, which is different to a horse's, works. A lot of our 'stuff' happens in the pre-frontal cortex and horses don't really have one of those. Although this is pretty simplistic, it's quite easy to read in relation to equine brains: https://magazine.malgretoutmedia.co...-s-and-the-human-brain-differ-from-each-other.

In order to be fair to horses we really should try to understand them rather than attribute our experiences to theirs. Horses are hugely emotional animals but they are different to us - their associative memory is important in training and their response to experience but there are many, many differences which lead to their world being quite profoundly different to ours. In order to help horses live with us I think it's useful to take those differences on board.