PTSD in riders

[eahotson]

You know I think there is more of this than we realise.Kelly Marks say that if you are riding a newly broken TB along a busy main road, you have no hat on,ill fitting footwear and the horses tack doesn't fit either and you are frightened, you are not a nervous rider YOU are right to be frightened.On the other hand, if you are riding a horse that is within your abilities,you have a hat, maybe a body protector, proper footwear and your horses tack fits well and you are still frightened, THEN you have a problem.
I had a horse that was very unpredictable and sharply spooky.I struggled with him for far too long and was basically rescued by my now instructor.
A new and very suitable replacement was found.He was (now retired after many years) the nearest thing to a saint that a horse can be.
Not long after I got him I was riding in the arena and suddenly I felt, for a couple of seconds,that I was in the middle of a very sharp spook.My brain then righted itself and my little cob continued doing what he had been doing all along.Plodding quietly.

 

[Deleted member 163966]

I think some form of PTSD in riders is very real. I once fell off a saint of a horse and it took me a full 6 months to get back on, and another 6 to feel fully confident again, so I've definitely been there.

Riding a horse is an inherently dangerous thing to do! Even the most saintly horse can spook, fall or take fright at some factor totally outside our control, and falling off is a fact of life for every rider - regardless of their ability or the horse they are riding. We all need to be mindful of that every time we get on board and make sure we are as safe as possible in terms of protective gear, as well as the actual horse being within our capabilities to ride. It is also completely understandable to have a crisis of confidence when falls do happen: it can take time to get over it.

Having said that, I think Kelly Marks is wrong! (And she is someone whose opinions I generally fully respect).

riding a newly broken TB along a busy main road, you have no hat on,ill fitting footwear and the horses tack doesn't fit either and you are frightened, you are not a nervous rider YOU are right to be frightened.

No!! .... doing this is pure idiocy. Yes be afraid, be very afraid, but take some ownership of the situation and just don't do it.

 

[eahotson]

I think some form of PTSD in riders is very real. I once fell off a saint of a horse and it took me a full 6 months to get back on, and another 6 to feel fully confident again, so I've definitely been there.

Riding a horse is an inherently dangerous thing to do! Even the most saintly horse can spook, fall or take fright at some factor totally outside our control, and falling off is a fact of life for every rider - regardless of their ability or the horse they are riding. We all need to be mindful of that every time we get on board and make sure we are as safe as possible in terms of protective gear, as well as the actual horse being within our capabilities to ride. It is also completely understandable to have a crisis of confidence when falls do happen: it can take time to get over it.

Having said that, I think Kelly Marks is wrong! (And she is someone whose opinions I generally fully respect).

riding a newly broken TB along a busy main road, you have no hat on,ill fitting footwear and the horses tack doesn't fit either and you are frightened, you are not a nervous rider YOU are right to be frightened.

No!! .... doing this is pure idiocy. Yes be afraid, be very afraid, but take some ownership of the situation and just don't do it.

I don't think Kelly Marks suggests that you should do that.I think she was exagerating to make a point about having genuine reasons to be afraid and not having reasons to be afraid but being afraid anyway.That is when sometimes the question of PTSD arises.

 

[Ambers Echo]

This comes up all the time - people want help with 'confidence', and then you explore a bit about why they are nervous and it's because they are genuinely at risk.

And yes rider PTSD is very real for riders who have had accidents or near misses. But is totally different to fear coming from doing something dangerous. True PSTD is a significant disorder arising from trauma which really needs specialist support to address.

'Nornal' fear arises when:

* You are aware of the danger AND
* You doubt your competence.

If you are aware of danger but have confidence in your competence (eg an experienced rider going XC) then you can feel fine.

If you are aware you lack competence (eg a beginner) but have confidence that your instructor will keep you safe, you can also feel fine.

But when you are aware of risks and feel incompetent to manage those risks, then you will feel fear.

The question then is: are you over-estimating the danger and/or underestimating your competence. If so then confidence is an issue.

That does not mean you have PTSD though. It just means you lack confidence in yourself, your horse or both and therefore are feeling vulnerable. This is more common after falls but is still not necessaily PTSD which is a very specific and very debilitating reaction to tramatic events in a snall minority of people. Most people get over accidents fine, even it it takes a while.

 

[eahotson]

This comes up all the time - people want help with 'confidence', and then you explore a bit about why they are nervous and it's because they are genuinely at risk.

And yes rider PTSD is very real for riders who have had accidents or near misses. But is totally different to fear coming from doing something dangerous. True PSTD is a significant disorder arising from trauma which really needs specialist support to address.

'Nornal' fear arises when:

* You are aware of the danger AND
* You doubt your competence.

If you are aware of danger but have confidence in your competence (eg an experienced rider going XC) then you can feel fine.

If you are aware you lack competence (eg a beginner) but have confidence that your instructor will keep you safe, you can also feel fine.

But when you are aware of risks and feel incompetent to manage those risks, then you will feel fear.

The question then is: are you over-estimating the danger and/or underestimating your competence. If so then confidence is an issue.

That does not mean you have PTSD though. It just means you lack confidence in yourself, your horse or both and therefore are feeling vulnerable. This is more common after falls but is still not necessaily PTSD which is a very specific and very debilitating reaction to tramatic events in a snall minority of people. Most people get over accidents fine, even it it takes a while.

I think you make a good point but I still think PTSD is more common in riders than is generally acknowledged.IMHO (and thats all it is) it happens more often over a period of time of being frightened that over one incident.Over time I developed some real confidence in my old boy but once he did some serious spooking with me.It shook me up for a few minutes but I got over it quite quickly because overall I knew he was very safe and this was an isolated incidence.If it had been a regular incidence and I struggled with it for a while, getting more frightened all the time I think I would eventually get some form of PTSD yes.How often do you hear people say that they have a horse, it hasn't really done anything but they are frightened of it.Sometimes, in fact a lot of the time the fear may hark back to previous frightening experiences on other horses.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I've had PTSD. And I work with PTSD in riders all the time. Yes it definitely happens. And yes it can be cumulative traumas that trigger it. But most scared riders don't have it. As luckily it is rare. Feeling afraid of the current safe horse due to bad expriences on a previous horse is also really common. Any traumatic event tells the survival centres of your brain that riding is dangerous and so that part of your brain can become sensitisized to any future riding.

I was part of the team that set up and then ran the Manchester Resilience Hub after the bombings. A key role for the hub was to screen concert goers and first repsonders to see who had PTSD and needed onward referral to specialist services. And who had 'normal' fear. Even in a situation like that, PTSD was rare. But it took a long time for everyone to overcome the flashbacks and the heightened sense of threat they had afdter being there or witnsessing the aftermath.

It would be interesting to do a study on just how common it is in riders, though.

 

[scats]

I was definitely affected by my recent accident. I’d been back on Millie about a month and she suddenly froze out hacking (saw an invisible monster) and her back went up. I felt the colour drain from me and my limbs felt really weird, all I could remember was that exact feeling before I came off Polly- her back went up and then moments later, she exploded. I was utterly convinced I was going to get flung off again. By some miracle, we walked a bit and her back slowly went back down, but I was absolutely petrified in that moment, like real panic.
So I sought some NLP help, that I’ve had previously following an accident, and my confidence is right back up again now. I tried to remember that I’m not being a wuss, I had a serious fall and very nearly lost my foot, lost 3 months income etc, so it’s absolutely normal for my brain to want to protect me from that happening again.
She did it on the road a couple of weeks ago when some idiot flew past revving his engine. Her back went up, but I was able to rationalise it this time and all was fine.

 

[Nasicus]

Yup, definitely have 'Rider PTSD' from bad experiences (In quotes because it's definitely nowhere near the scale of actual diagnosed PTSD).
I've taken steps to try and reassure myself, and pony being the complete opposite of my last youngster really helps. I find myself catastrophizing and have to remind myself quite firmly that Pony has never done x, or has always reacted y way and not z way, if that makes sense? And that there's always been a reason for any undesirable behaviour with her, never done out of the blue.

 

[Caol Ila]

I think you make a good point but I still think PTSD is more common in riders than is generally acknowledged.IMHO (and thats all it is) it happens more often over a period of time of being frightened that over one incident.Over time I developed some real confidence in my old boy but once he did some serious spooking with me.It shook me up for a few minutes but I got over it quite quickly because overall I knew he was very safe and this was an isolated incidence.If it had been a regular incidence and I struggled with it for a while, getting more frightened all the time I think I would eventually get some form of PTSD yes.How often do you hear people say that they have a horse, it hasn't really done anything but they are frightened of it.Sometimes, in fact a lot of the time the fear may hark back to previous frightening experiences on other horses.

I don't think that's actually the definition of PTSD. I'm with AE on this one. You don't want to pathologise normal, sane reactions to fear-inducing stimuli. Sitting on a 1000lbs flight animal is objectively dangerous. Even the most bombproof plod of a horse can spook or trip.

Your reptilian brain knows trusting your life to the 1000lbs flight animal is daft. And if the horse spooks or chucks you off, that confirms to your brain that it's dangerous. That isn't necessarily PTSD. That's a legit risk assessment. Which concludes what you're doing isn't that safe, relative to gardening, say!

Same with many risk sports. People will absolutely get PTSD from rock climbing accidents. But let's face it, rock climbing is also objectively dangerous, no matter how safe you try to make it with gear and ropes. Being aware of that isn't PTSD. Deciding, as I have done, that you're too scared to want to do it anymore is also not PTSD. Sure, you have a fear reaction when you're on lead facing a tricky move, but still not PTSD. PTSD is a constellation of symptoms, well beyond and more debilitating than not wanting to do the scary thing or feeling frightened while doing it, whether that's riding or climbing.

Horse riding and climbing are similar in the sense that we have a hard-wired instinct to be wary of large animals and cliffs. It kept our ancestors alive. Some people will have more of that hard-wiring than others. I have introduced a lot of non-horsey friends to my horses, and they are genuinely scared of them.

Of course, CBT and other types of therapy can be helpful if you want to do the scary thing despite your fear. I was happy enough to more or less not climb, but many people want to overcome their fear because they don't want to quit their favourite risk sport and take up golf.

What is Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)?

Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a psychiatric disorder that may occur in people who have experienced or witnessed a traumatic event such as a natural disaster, a serious accident, a terrorist act, war/combat, or rape or who have been threatened with death, sexual violence or serious injury.

www.psychiatry.org

 

[GoldenWillow]

I was diagnosed with PTSD after an accident with a horse. I now suffer from a lack of confidence or "fear" not solely coming from the accident and for me the two are totally different and could not confused with each other. AE explains it very well.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I was definitely affected by my recent accident. I’d been back on Millie about a month and she suddenly froze out hacking (saw an invisible monster) and her back went up. I felt the colour drain from me and my limbs felt really weird, all I could remember was that exact feeling before I came off Polly- her back went up and then moments later, she exploded. I was utterly convinced I was going to get flung off again. By some miracle, we walked a bit and her back slowly went back down, but I was absolutely petrified in that moment, like real panic.
So I sought some NLP help, that I’ve had previously following an accident, and my confidence is right back up again now. I tried to remember that I’m not being a wuss, I had a serious fall and very nearly lost my foot, lost 3 months income etc, so it’s absolutely normal for my brain to want to protect me from that happening again.
She did it on the road a couple of weeks ago when some idiot flew past revving his engine. Her back went up, but I was able to rationalise it this time and all was fine.

That sounds like a dissociative episode (flashback) where you were - for those seconds - back at the scene of the acccident and reliving it. That COULD be PTSD but that would need to be happening a lot, in different situations, over a long period of time.

Basically traumatic events needs to be processed by the brain, and those sorts of experiences are part of normal, healthy processing. And they naturally fade over time. PSTD is failed trauma processing, so 10 years later, they happen with the same intensity as they did straight afterward. Or get worse!

I'm not trying to be pedantic but lot of people use PTSD to mean the natural process of assmiliating sh!t things that happen into your bank of memories. The harder the memory to digest, the longer the processing takes. But I don't like the word PTSD for that process a) because it is inaccurate, and b) more importantly, because it means people with true PTSD do not seek help because they keep being told 'oh yes I had that when I x.y.,z,,,, but I just needed to' and it makes people feel they are being soft for not 'geting over it'. Especially horse riders!

 

[eahotson]

That sounds like a dissociative episode (flashback) where you were - for those seconds - back at the scene of the acccident and reliving it. That COULD be PTSD but that would need to be happening a lot, in different situations, over a long period of time.

Basically traumatic events needs to be processed by the brain, and those sorts of experiences are part of normal, healthy processing. And they naturally fade over time. PSTD is failed trauma processing, so 10 years later, they happen with the same intensity as they did straight afterward. Or get worse!

I'm not trying to be pedantic but lot of people use PTSD to mean the natural process of assmiliating sh!t things that happen into your bank of memories. The harder the memory to digest, the longer the processing takes. But I don't like the word PTSD for that process a) because it is inaccurate, and b) more importantly, because it means people with true PTSD do not seek help because they keep being told 'oh yes I had that when I x.y.,z,,,, but I just needed to' and it makes people feel they are being soft for not 'geting over it'. Especially horse riders!

I agree that horse riders are frequently told that they should just "Get over it" without being given the knowledge/tools to do that.

 

[eahotson]

In fact, not so long ago even admitting that you might be feeling a bit nervous about something would invite scorn.We have got over that at least.There was a poster on here whose teenage daughter had a pony described by mother as a challenging ride.She thought it would help her daughter to learn to ride better.Aparently riding untrained/half trained ponies and suffering frequent injuries is a good way to develope confidence.At the end whenever her daughter just saw the pony she would start screaming.Mother thought she was just an hysterical teenager.

 

[Sossigpoker]

A memory of a bad experience or fright isn't the same as PTSD!

But in any case , after breaking my back , I was a nervous wreck. I went to get back on a very steady RS horse and cried on the mounting block. Instructor ended up leading me around but I couldn't go anywhere near a corner as it was in a corner where my then horse exploded and launched me. That association stayed with me a long time

 

[eahotson]

There is a lot of language of fear though i

I don't think that's actually the definition of PTSD. I'm with AE on this one. You don't want to pathologise normal, sane reactions to fear-inducing stimuli. Sitting on a 1000lbs flight animal is objectively dangerous. Even the most bombproof plod of a horse can spook or trip.

Your reptilian brain knows trusting your life to the 1000lbs flight animal is daft. And if the horse spooks or chucks you off, that confirms to your brain that it's dangerous. That isn't necessarily PTSD. That's a legit risk assessment. Which concludes what you're doing isn't that safe, relative to gardening, say!

Same with many risk sports. People will absolutely get PTSD from rock climbing accidents. But let's face it, rock climbing is also objectively dangerous, no matter how safe you try to make it with gear and ropes. Being aware of that isn't PTSD. Deciding, as I have done, that you're too scared to want to do it anymore is also not PTSD. Sure, you have a fear reaction when you're on lead facing a tricky move, but still not PTSD. PTSD is a constellation of symptoms, well beyond and more debilitating than not wanting to do the scary thing or feeling frightened while doing it, whether that's riding or climbing.

Horse riding and climbing are similar in the sense that we have a hard-wired instinct to be wary of large animals and cliffs. It kept our ancestors alive. Some people will have more of that hard-wiring than others. I have introduced a lot of non-horsey friends to my horses, and they are genuinely scared of them.

Of course, CBT and other types of therapy can be helpful if you want to do the scary thing despite your fear. I was happy enough to more or less not climb, but many people want to overcome their fear because they don't want to quit their favourite risk sport and take up golf.

What is Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)?

Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a psychiatric disorder that may occur in people who have experienced or witnessed a traumatic event such as a natural disaster, a serious accident, a terrorist act, war/combat, or rape or who have been threatened with death, sexual violence or serious injury.

www.psychiatry.org

A lot of people do survive nasty or frightening incidents for sure.A lot appear to.I can think of something that happened to me over thirty years ago.I try not to think about it but every now and again up it pops.It was in the course of employment and no help was given to me.I just "Got on with it"!!

 

[eahotson]

There is a lot if the language of fear around riding though isn't there? Horses are big and dangerous animals etc.Karl Greenwood though says we should remember that people ride every day without injury.