Public liability insurance

FieldOrnaments

FieldOrnaments

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Currently have BHS Gold membership for the PPL but no longer wish to be sending them money; please can I have recommendations for companies that do public liability insurance? I don't need any other sort of insurance (e.g vet). The gold membership works out about £9 per month so around that mark would be good.
Thank you.
 
It is a shame that you do not wish to continue with your BHS membership - it is the main membership organisation to represent riders and owners in the UK. They do all the Access work, including other access groups such as Sustrans, welfare, road safety and standards for instructors and reply to all Government consultation documents that concern horses which is in itself a large job.
And county BHS officers such as the Bridlepath Officer replies to any local Planning applications that might affect bridlepaths.

Who else would do it?
 
Orangehorse said:
It is a shame that you do not wish to continue with your BHS membership - it is the main membership organisation to represent riders and owners in the UK. They do all the Access work, including other access groups such as Sustrans, welfare, road safety and standards for instructors and reply to all Government consultation documents that concern horses which is in itself a large job.
And county BHS officers such as the Bridlepath Officer replies to any local Planning applications that might affect bridlepaths.

Who else would do it?
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Yes, and that is undoubtedly important and necessary work, but not their only aim, and imo they have certainly fallen short on those in recent times.
 
I’m with BHS and happy with it from an insurance perspective. If you’re looking elsewhere it is worth comparing the insurance amounts - how many million you are covered for.
 
maya2008 said:
I’m with BHS and happy with it from an insurance perspective. If you’re looking elsewhere it is worth comparing the insurance amounts - how many million you are covered for.
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Trouble is if I'm being honest, I'm not sure how much is actually a reasonable amount to want to be covered, e.g bhs cover is up to thirty mil which feels like an eye watering amount but in public liability terms is it? I have no idea 😅 but I have only stayed a member for the PPL, really wasn't impressed with the horse box purchases and the recent issue with an accredited coach beating a horse has sealed the deal for me, I do not want them getting anymore of my money, I am not rich by any stretch and very very unhappy for any of my money to go to funding such things?
But KBIS for instance only seems to go up to 3 mil from what I can see on their website, HH (which is what I'm leaning towards) is 10 mil
 
I moved to world horse welfare after getting fed up with what bhs was doing with the money and treatment of staff there.
 
I paid for BHS membership to get the insurance and then found that 3rd party is probably included in our house and contents insurance.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Trouble is if I'm being honest, I'm not sure how much is actually a reasonable amount to want to be covered, e.g bhs cover is up to thirty mil which feels like an eye watering amount but in public liability terms is it? I have no idea 😅 but I have only stayed a member for the PPL, really wasn't impressed with the horse box purchases and the recent issue with an accredited coach beating a horse has sealed the deal for me, I do not want them getting anymore of my money, I am not rich by any stretch and very very unhappy for any of my money to go to funding such things?
But KBIS for instance only seems to go up to 3 mil from what I can see on their website, HH (which is what I'm leaning towards) is 10 mil
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Not quite sure what’s referred to here, but are you inferring BHS coaches routinely beat horses, or that the society actively encourages the beating of horses?
Because I’m fairly confident they don’t, so rejection of the entire organisation, it’s membership, aims and achievements does seem an extreme response.
Someone pointed out that BHS are the statutory consultees on matters equine, thus if BHS folds through lack of support - bang goes any equine representation, other than at the level of individual riders or court-case decisions.
That’s a very serious concern.
If you want cheaper third party insurance, fair enough, and may even find existing house insurance helps with this.
 
No, that's not what I'm saying.

But there was a video posted recently showing a BHS accredited coach beating a horse. The society has been made aware of this but haven't done anything and for me, personally, inaction about things like this is effectively condoning it.
A statement to the effect of "this is unacceptable behaviour towards any animal and the individual is no longer an accredited coach" would be fine, but not the public radio silence there has been.
 
We do inarguably need a conglomerate representing the equestrian community but I don't feel that the BHS are really doing this anymore. Their work on access is excellent but if I'm honest they seem to be very much skirting around the issues of welfare which are, also undoubtedly, affecting how laypeople view horse owners and have a huge impact on the credibility of any lobbying attempts for instance. (I'm probably mangling my words here but basically: Joe public isn't going to want to give horses and riders more protection on the roads for example if the overarching view of equestrians in the eyes of the public are rich horse abusers).
I'm also not sure it's really extreme considering I doubt my 8.5 a month is really going to dent their annual income of 16 million.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
No, that's not what I'm saying.

But there was a video posted recently showing a BHS accredited coach beating a horse. The society has been made aware of this but haven't done anything and for me, personally, inaction about things like this is effectively condoning it.
A statement to the effect of "this is unacceptable behaviour towards any animal and the individual is no longer an accredited coach" would be fine, but not the public radio silence there has been.
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Ok, haven’t seen or heard anything about it, so can’t really comment - other than hypothesise that incidents of abuse in other workplaces and situations usually have to be formally investigated, to ensure the allegation is substantiated, which processes aren’t usually overnight.
An individual membership fee won’t sink the ship, mass exodus certainly would, but large numbers of unhappy members ought to have a very good chance of reforming the institution from within - which they never could by leaving.
Hope you sort your insurance out.
 
Exasperated said:
Ok, haven’t seen or heard anything about it, so can’t really comment - other than hypothesise that incidents of abuse in other workplaces and situations usually have to be formally investigated, to ensure the allegation is substantiated, which processes aren’t usually overnight.
An individual membership fee won’t sink the ship, mass exodus certainly would, but large numbers of unhappy members ought to have a very good chance of reforming the institution from within - which they never could by leaving.
Hope you sort your insurance out.
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Post 393 onwards https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...l-rider-not-when-will-this-end.841286/page-14
 
Exasperated said:
Ok, haven’t seen or heard anything about it, so can’t really comment - other than hypothesise that incidents of abuse in other workplaces and situations usually have to be formally investigated, to ensure the allegation is substantiated, which processes aren’t usually overnight.
An individual membership fee won’t sink the ship, mass exodus certainly would, but large numbers of unhappy members ought to have a very good chance of reforming the institution from within - which they never could by leaving.
Hope you sort your insurance out.
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I am also not renewing my membership after this incident. It was apparently reported to them, with the video evidence, yet a few weeks later, the woman passed her BHSI and was featured in a congratulatory photo and article. I emailed the BHS about the abuse, the perpetrators subsequent exam award, and have received absolutely no response. I'm out.
OP, I have the Harry Hall insurance and public liability insurance on my yard / land with Cliverton
 
teapot said:
Post 393 onwards https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...l-rider-not-when-will-this-end.841286/page-14
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Post 393? Sorry, what am I watching here? (other than unedifying ‘over collection’ in a Swiss dressage warm up?) Are these riders all BHS coaches? All in a European location?
Not my thing, don’t find it attractive, but no obvious beating that joe public would notice and protest - altho a pervasive aura of elitism, for sure.
Don’t BHS condemn rollkur and hyperflexion, anyway?
 
maya2008 said:
I’m with BHS and happy with it from an insurance perspective. If you’re looking elsewhere it is worth comparing the insurance amounts - how many million you are covered for.
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Most household PL insurance is a similar sum to BHS if not more.

Also (not aimed at you maya88, but worth stating) the BHS is an insurance of last resort, this means that it will only be activated if there is no other PL insurance to claim from such as house insurance etc. They will require full info of any other policies held, if the occasion arises.
 
Exasperated said:
Post 393? Sorry, what am I watching here? (other than unedifying ‘over collection’ in a Swiss dressage warm up?) Are these riders all BHS coaches? All in a European location?
Not my thing, don’t find it attractive, but no obvious beating that joe public would notice and protest - altho a pervasive aura of elitism, for sure.
Don’t BHS condemn rollkur and hyperflexion, anyway?
Click to expand...

You may have looked at the wrong post - post 393 on that thread is a video of a newly publicly awarded BHSI pro event rider beating a horse around


OP in terms of value of liability - like any insurance it's better to have as much as you can afford and hope you never need it, than only have 1mil and something happens imho.
 
teapot said:
You may have looked at the wrong post - post 393 on that thread is a video of a newly publicly awarded BHSI pro event rider beating a horse around


OP in terms of value of liability - like any insurance it's better to have as much as you can afford and hope you never need it, than only have 1mil and something happens imho.
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In terms of that video - it is very blurry and it would likely be difficult to prove exactly who the person is by viewing the video alone.

Is the BHS instructor system not fit for purpose? Absolutely. In a way that causes far more damage long term to far more horses. They send instructors into the world with insufficient knowledge and skills, for today’s horse owning population. Some manage to acquire their own knowledge despite the system and are good at what they do, but many don’t. That lack of knowledge often brands horses as difficult or dangerous when they aren’t and puts their future at risk.

I’ll take £30 million in insurance though - last resort acknowledged. I will also take the access to affordable pts options through the Equine End of Life service that can be found on their website.
 
I know it’s not as important as horse abuse, but I contacted the local BHS access officer about a bridge on the West Highland Way that we’d used many times and is listed on their website as a passable section of the WHW for horses (not all of it is). A plank had rotted and my friend’s horse broke it. The BHS access officer had to do some digging because the bridge was in a border area of estates/counties, so it wasn’t clear who was responsible for it, and obviously people wanted to pass the buck. Nonetheless, the bridge got fixed. So, I will dutifully pay my public liability insurance to them.

Now to get them to liaise with Police Scotland and do their “undercover “ pull over wankery drivers op near Mugdock. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
 
Exasperated said:
Post 393? Sorry, what am I watching here? (other than unedifying ‘over collection’ in a Swiss dressage warm up?) Are these riders all BHS coaches? All in a European location?
Not my thing, don’t find it attractive, but no obvious beating that joe public would notice and protest - altho a pervasive aura of elitism, for sure.
Don’t BHS condemn rollkur and hyperflexion, anyway?
Click to expand...
That is post 392.
 
Jojo2go said:
That is post 392.
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Yes, because post 393 is a white, blank space, next to the photograph of an Alsatian dog, skinny dipper. Since 392 actually contains content, assumed that was it.
(Can also see over 500 contributions to this theme since last autumn, so if we ever have another rainy day, might plough through them, but unable to see or comment on vicious instructors atm)
I’m no apologist for BHS, and quite sure there will be incompetencies, iniquities, unacceptable behaviour etc within an (any) organisation of that size and scope.
Members are free to quit, can freely express their displeasure or signal virtue by buying insurance elsewhere, as cited, eg. Harry Hall (which is a business, primary interest in people buying their products, and equine welfare only very indirectly); or from World Horse Welfare (another charity, focused differently from BHS, altho various posts on this forum evidence dissatisfaction with WHW’s responses to urgent welfare cases of starvation / extreme neglect - purportedly their core purpose); or any other insurer - it’s a free country and saving a bit of money is understandable.
But I do maintain the equine community would be foolish to risk losing the BHS.
Consider carefully, who / what else will represent their interests and those of their horses at the level of national policy?
 
I began to hack out when I was over 60 years old. At that age it cost me less to take out BHS life membership than to pay year by year. When OH began to ride he did the same. I find it reassuring to have equine related insurance and did once years ago ring their legal advice line.
I wouldnt dream of resigning.
 
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