Public Right of Way Help Please

[Antw23uk]

Hi all
As some of you know I moved my two horses to a paddock owned by the company I work for which is outside the perimeter of our business park (but we own the land they are on) for their winter holidays. All has been going great and ponies seem happy.

I shall try and describe the layout but basically the field is at the end of a cul de sac. There is a gate going onto the land where I park, its a strip of land between two fields where garages used to be (hard standing is very handy) My field is on the left as you go in and there is a field on the right rented by a local farmer for his sheep. Where I park there is that strip of land running between the two fields, some of it is grassland and a patch of old mostly covered over hard standing.

There is a public footpath through this middle strip ( we are talking 100 yards long and about 20 yards wide? and at the end you go right over a stile into the farmers field and the public footpath runs through his field to the top where it brings you out by what is effectively the driveway entrance to our business park (Actually I might just try and do you a map as im explaining it terribly)

Since the ponies have gone through most of the grass in my paddock I have taken to leaving the gate open and locking the first gate and letting them graze on this middle patch. All perfectly allowed and I leave the gate to there paddock open and use the padlock on the outter gate.

So this morning there is a notice on the outer gate saying 'PLEASE DO NOT PADLOCK THIS GATE, IT IS A PUBLIC FOOTPATH AND REGULARLY USED BY DOG WALKERS'. I know its a public foot path there is a stile on that fence a yard or so next to the gate I have locked .. Ok in fairness its a naff stile and I wouldnt risk using it BUT thats not really my problem (dont shoot me, just thinking out loud) so my plan is to put a nice printed polite notice on the gate saying something along the lines of 'Public footpath access still open, please use stile provided. Please keep dogs on leads around the horses and livestock. Any issues please call ...' and then my mobile or perhaps my work number as im based in the security gatehouse to the business park.

I've no issue speaking to anyone with concerns, I am not trying to keep them out of the land or off the footpath but for obvious security I do need to lock that gate whilst my ponies graze this strip of land which I am absolutely entitled to use.

Any thoughts? I know how these things can spiral, I am very aware my horses arent watched over 24/7 and there are some morons out there who would be vindictive ect. Im just trying to gauge the best way to go about this and what to write on this note which will include a map outlining the footpath.

If you got this far you are awesome, thank you

 

[MyBoyChe]

Is the Row signpost on the stile or on the gate? I would be inclined to lock the gate as well, if you are absolutely sure the stile is the access point, and I cant see why else it would be there! We had a similar thing at a yard I was at years ago, footpath through the middle of the horses field, a gate to the road at one end for us to ride in and out and a stile for walkers to climb over, gate was kept under lock and key.

 

[Antw23uk]

Is the Row signpost on the stile or on the gate? I would be inclined to lock the gate as well, if you are absolutely sure the stile is the access point, and I cant see why else it would be there! We had a similar thing at a yard I was at years ago, footpath through the middle of the horses field, a gate to the road at one end for us to ride in and out and a stile for walkers to climb over, gate was kept under lock and key.

Thank you. There are no little blue (?) Public Footpath signs anywhere to be honest and certainly not on the gate so the stile is the access point for walkers. As a business park we try and have a good relationship with the villagers so I dont want to upset anyone but at the same time I dont think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm not great at DIY but I would certainly give the stile a once over to see if i can strengthen/ fix it for people.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Hmmm. I fully understand why you need to lock the gate and think you should be able to. However if the style is dangerous and unusable I feel that locking the gate could also be seen as blocking the public right if way. Really I'd say that the gate is irrelevant because the style is the official access to the footpath and, I'm guessing, it is the responsibility of the land owner to ensure that a usable, safe style is in place? Is there anything you can do to temporarily and cheaply improve the style? Can you ask the landowner to improve it so you can lock your gate without causing conflict? As you should be able to do because the style should be functional. Or is it the council's responsibility to make sure the style is good? I don't know. I thought it was the landowner which is why having rights of way on your land is a pain... But I could be wrong.

While I think locking your gate and putting a note saying please use style is kind of ok in theory I worry that in practice people will get crabby. And I wouldn't want the presence of my horses to pee off the wrong person as people can be horrible and I'd worry about the horses being on the receiving end of something.

 

[pansymouse]

I think I would be tempted to print and laminate a map which shows the official route of the footpath and pin it to the gate. Obviously the dog walkers have got used to veering off route and may not even know what the proper route is. Maintenance of the style is the responsibility of the land owner so they may move onto seeking to get that fixed now they don't have the option to bypass it.

 

[popsdosh]

If the stile is the access to the footpath be aware you will be held liable if the stile is not fit for purpose and somebody has an accident. I would also check if that land is designated as anything other than a footpath as indeed you may be blocking a legal right of way with the padlock. If I was you I would be proactive and contact your county council rights of way officer as they will help you decide the best course of action as signage has to be carefully worded so as not to end up in trouble . Have you got liability cover for grazing the land? You should!

 

[Orangehorse]

OK, I think your problem is who are the local dog walkers. It is probably a couple of OAPs or a family with small children who have found the gate a good deal easier to use than the wobbly stile. Poshdosh is right, but possibly a bit alarmist.
I would:
1. Check on the Definitive Map the correct route of the footpath. Does your Parish Council have a Paths Officer, that may be a good thing to do.
2. County Councils vary on their policies. Ours are trying to replace styles with kissing gate type gates, but they will actually provide these gates and in some cases install them, or let the landowner install them. (It is the sort of project local volunteer groups do, and I have helped with a couple).
3. Then you would be perfectly entitled to padlock your gate, as the footpath is available to be used by walkers of whatever age. A dog is regarded as "a normal accompaniment" so some provision should be made for dogs.
4. If the Council baulk at providing a kissing gate maybe your business park/firm could sponsor one if you want to good relationships with the locals. They can be installed so that they are safe for livestock so that means someone from the CC should supervise the installation.

So contact Parish Council to see if there is a Path Warden, liaise with him and the County Council and then go from there.

 

[Antw23uk]

Thanks all, very informative and helpful. I have put a sign up with a clear map of the footpath confirming the access is absolutely open and the stile should, could and can be used. I do genuinely think its one person who isnt even that regular to be honest as the gate has been locked for a good few days now and sign was only put on yesterday for me to find first thing this morning.

Whilst putting the sign up I have cleared a hawthorn bush which was blocking the stile ... nasty ******* arent they!!!! ...... and I have noted the bottom step needs replacing so I will get this done. It is the landowners responsibility to fix them so as I work for the land owner the job would end up on my desk to organise anyway (I know my job is that exciting, lol!)

This isnt forever, in fact they are really on there till about March. This paddock has been an absolute god send allowing me to get the horses off the paddocks at home which were becoming really ruined with all the rain! My contact details were already on the paddock gate but I have also put my details on this new sign (rightly or wrongly) so if i get a phone call at least i can try and defuse the situation. As someone said above I am worried about pi$$ing someone off and them turning nasty towards my horses!

 

[TreeDog]

Without seeing the stile, I'm wondering if the problem may be that dogs can't get through/over the stile?

If you're not going to be there for long you could mention that on your notice so dog walkers needn't panic that they've got to deal with horses permanently, they might be less bothered if they knew it was just for a month

 

[Antw23uk]

Without seeing the stile, I'm wondering if the problem may be that dogs can't get through/over the stile?

If you're not going to be there for long you could mention that on your notice so dog walkers needn't panic that they've got to deal with horses permanently, they might be less bothered if they knew it was just for a month

I think it was the 8ft high hawthorn bush growing up through it to be honest, lol! I've just removed it

 

[Dave's Mam]

Thank you. There are no little blue (?) Public Footpath signs anywhere to be honest and certainly not on the gate so the stile is the access point for walkers. As a business park we try and have a good relationship with the villagers so I dont want to upset anyone but at the same time I dont think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm not great at DIY but I would certainly give the stile a once over to see if i can strengthen/ fix it for people.

Notification of a footpath is usually a yellow post / post top.

 

[OldFogie]

I had similar problems at the DIY yard where I was the general factotum as well as a livery for years - we had a footpath running through our winter turnout field but would often find members of the public randomly walking about everywhere. I tried everything, pleasant chats, pleading and then everything up to firing a gun over their heads but nothing worked with some of them except....... a nice big sign reading DANGER BULL IN FIELD! No further problems.

 

[PeterNatt]

The first thig you need to do is to visit the Difinitive Map Officer at your local county council and view the definitive map and determine the precise status of the route and the precuise line it takes. Only then will you be able to determine at what point the public cross the boundary in to the field.
If the style is on the route taken by the public footpath then this needs to be replaced by a Kissing gate as the change in the law regarding access for the disabled requires all styles to be replaced by kissing gates.
If the gate is on the route taken by the public footpath then I would replace it by a kissing gate and have another gate installed for your horses.

 

[Cecile]

The first thig you need to do is to visit the Difinitive Map Officer at your local county council and view the definitive map and determine the precise status of the route and the precuise line it takes. Only then will you be able to determine at what point the public cross the boundary in to the field.
If the style is on the route taken by the public footpath then this needs to be replaced by a Kissing gate as the change in the law regarding access for the disabled requires all styles to be replaced by kissing gates.
If the gate is on the route taken by the public footpath then I would replace it by a kissing gate and have another gate installed for your horses.

I would very much to see the legislation attached to this new law that all stiles are to be replaced by kissing gates
If a stile is kept in good order there is no law that I am aware of that sends in the stile police to rip it down and install a gate, a landowner can replace a stile with a gate if they wish, any newly placed structures would have to take into account of the Equality Act of 2010

Same with dogs and access a landowner is under no obligation to alter a stile to give dogs better access, they may do it as they feel it was a good idea but the dog police can't come out and make them

Stiles should be kept in good order otherwise people may go ar$e over t*t

If livestock are kept in this field before anything is taken down and not just made in good order it is best to access the Definitive map and discuss as you may end up shooting yourself in the foot or shooting the farmer in the foot

Good call removing all the hedging as it will help people use and access the stile

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Unfortunately some dog walkers think that they have a right to go anywhere they please. When our horses were at livery, the YO noticed that dogs were running allover his land. He decided to enclose the public rights of way with dog proof fencing, after taking advice from the Planning Dept about the width of the footpath. He left a more generous path than the minimum required but had numerous complaints from dogwalkers because their dogs couldn't just run all over the land. YO also made tractor tracks round each field which many walkers decided to use, even though they were not rights of way.
I would be wary about the horses being unattended but agree that you are perfectly within your rights to lock the gate. The ROW doesn't go through the gate and even if the ROW is blocked, no-one has the right to divert the footpath. Could the landowner (your employer) change the stile for a 'kissing gate'? My neighbour decided to do that after problems with the stile and walkers leaving gates open.

 

[Orangehorse]

Stiles are being replaced by kissing gates since styles are technically blocking the path. OP doesn't have any problems with the local dog walkers (and I know that some can be a pain in the you-know-where).

We had a complaint about a footpath about 3/4 mile from the village, so not a route used by OAPs, as we had put barbed wire round the gates to keep them closed. The Council came and installed a kissing gate next to the field gates, instead of putting in a stile in a country location. But we do have a pretty good ROW department at the Council.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Stiles are being replaced by kissing gates since styles are technically blocking the path. OP doesn't have any problems with the local dog walkers (and I know that some can be a pain in the you-know-where).

We had a complaint about a footpath about 3/4 mile from the village, so not a route used by OAPs, as we had put barbed wire round the gates to keep them closed. The Council came and installed a kissing gate next to the field gates, instead of putting in a stile in a country location. But we do have a pretty good ROW department at the Council.

Our LA has cut spending on ROW to the minimum, so certainly won't be paying for gates on someone else's land.

 

[PeterNatt]

In my case I was not given an option the styles were removed by the local authority and I was left with having to replace them with gates or kissing gates.

 

[Cecile]

Unfortunately some dog walkers think that they have a right to go anywhere they please. When our horses were at livery, the YO noticed that dogs were running allover his land. He decided to enclose the public rights of way with dog proof fencing, after taking advice from the Planning Dept about the width of the footpath. He left a more generous path than the minimum required but had numerous complaints from dogwalkers because their dogs couldn't just run all over the land. YO also made tractor tracks round each field which many walkers decided to use, even though they were not rights of way.
I would be wary about the horses being unattended but agree that you are perfectly within your rights to lock the gate. The ROW doesn't go through the gate and even if the ROW is blocked, no-one has the right to divert the footpath. Could the landowner (your employer) change the stile for a 'kissing gate'? My neighbour decided to do that after problems with the stile and walkers leaving gates open.

The RoW team at the local council can help pay for a gate, I think they will give a landowner 25% towards it or pay the full amount
Walking groups and charities will also pay and install a gate FOC on certain routes, they gift the gate to the landowner as if they retained ownership of the gate/s they would have to maintain them and also be liable for legal liability

I spent a really funny day with a landowner with a footpath, she had a megaphone which she kept by her window, every so often she would pick up the megaphone and shout various stuff which sent me into fits of giggles
Eg: My barn is not the footpath, get out
Put my eggs down, you don't get free eggs on my land
Get off the swing, I can see you
Get back on the footpath that is my shed.......
She would just stop talking mid sentence and pick up her megaphone and hang out of the window

 

[gingerfan]

I would contact the countryside access officer for your area, who is based at the County Council rights of way unit and seek his advice It is an offence to block or otherwise deter lawful use of a statutory right of way

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The RoW team at the local council can help pay for a gate, I think they will give a landowner 25% towards it or pay the full amount
Walking groups and charities will also pay and install a gate FOC on certain routes, they gift the gate to the landowner as if they retained ownership of the gate/s they would have to maintain them and also be liable for legal liability

I spent a really funny day with a landowner with a footpath, she had a megaphone which she kept by her window, every so often she would pick up the megaphone and shout various stuff which sent me into fits of giggles
Eg: My barn is not the footpath, get out
Put my eggs down, you don't get free eggs on my land
Get off the swing, I can see you
Get back on the footpath that is my shed.......
She would just stop talking mid sentence and pick up her megaphone and hang out of the window

There must be a lot more money available in some areas than there is round here! Our roads are desperately in need of maintenance, let alone ROW!

I love the idea of the landowner with the megaphone. When we bought our place, we made sure that there were no footpaths across the land but we still get people and their dogs in our fields! I might have to invest in a megaphone.

 

[Cecile]

There must be a lot more money available in some areas than there is round here! Our roads are desperately in need of maintenance, let alone ROW!

I love the idea of the landowner with the megaphone. When we bought our place, we made sure that there were no footpaths across the land but we still get people and their dogs in our fields! I might have to invest in a megaphone.

Go for it as it was one of the funniest days I have had for ages

https://www.amazon.co.uk/megaphones/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:megaphones

 

[Arzada]

We had a complaint about a footpath about 3/4 mile from the village, so not a route used by OAPs,

Really? Why's that?

 

[Orangehorse]

I didn't make that plain.

I am an OAP and I use it, but to start with the Council were keen to make short paths in and around villages easy for people with mobility problems and Mums with pushchairs, so that is where the first lot of kissing gates went in.

Since anyone using paths a decent walk out of the village wouldn't have mobility problems then it would be assumed that they could use a stile without too much difficulty so it was a bit of a surprise for landowners when all these kissing gates started to appear in the middle of "no where".

Oddly, this particular path has a kissing gate from the road, another one between two fields and then to get back onto the lane at the other end there is a stile! And then to complete the circuit there is another stile back into another field, followed by two more stiles, followed by a new kissing gate and then another stile!

 

[Cecile]

The RoW team at the local council can help pay for a gate, I think they will give a landowner 25% towards it or pay the full amount
Walking groups and charities will also pay and install a gate FOC on certain routes, they gift the gate to the landowner as if they retained ownership of the gate/s they would have to maintain them and also be liable for legal liability

Before anyone jumps at me, the above is when you have a stile and someone wants to put in a gate as a replacement for a stile for easier access or on a route that makes sense
RoW, walking groups and charities can't go around paying and putting up gates where they want to just by paying for it, it has to be done in a civilised manner

My council seem very wealthy or were at one point as they paid for all the kissing gates throughout a local farm and installed them, we all took photo's as one of the kissing gates was in a field with absolutely no fence attached or near it, a few of us even walked across the field with the farmer to deliberately walk through the gate whilst people took photo's - I kid you not the gate was just put up in the middle of a field all on its own