Pugs?

[Montyforever]

Just interested in finding out a little bit more about them. Not considering getting one!
A couple of people at the yard have them, and they seem to all have lovely temperaments but remember briefly hearing that they have alot of health problems?
Pictures welcome! Have a greyhound so opposite looks wise at least

 

[twiggy2]

pugs, french bulldogs and british bulldogs and appear to have life loving happy temperaments IME, they also have such a list of health issues it is shocking-with humans in control of breeding it has gone very wrong

 

[SKW92]

Pugs put up with all sorts..

 

[Clodagh]

I would love a pug, but I have heard they train you more than they train them! Gorgeous dogs, full of joie de vie.
When I am in my dotage and no longer want big active dogs I am having one, by which time they will be extinct or cured of some health problems, hopefully.

 

[Montyforever]

Pugs put up with all sorts..

Amazing!

They really do just always seem happy, although may just be the huge contrast from my victor meldrew dog ..

 

[NellRosk]

I really love pugs. I have wanted one for years but was worried about getting one with health problems so opted for a pug x jack russell. She is absolutely insane and a few people have said it's a combination of having the pug temperament with the agility of a JRT. Apparently it's quite a dangerous combination allowing them to be more mobile They have such funny temperaments, I'm getting a pup next year and seriously thinking about getting a pug but I'll have to weigh up the health risks first. I knew one that was a yard dog and lost an eye due to infection

 

[StoptheCavalry]

I also went for the pug with teeny bit of jack Russell in him (about an 1/8 or something ridiculous) he is without a doubt the most hilarious, kind, loving, tough little dog you could ever wish for. He was hit by a car and had his pelvis smashed to smithereens and still managed to wag his tail when we arrived at the vets.

He's also puts up with quite a lot

A very confused little lamb

And he really loves his brother

 

[ester]

They have always seemed dogs of lovely character to me, whom we have rather done a disservice turning them so flat faced, there are some older photos of 1900 ish pugs with short noses but noses no less and I think they must have been much more comfortable and healthier like that.

 

[blackcob]

I saw a pug recently that was being referred for surgery due to BOAS and you know what, it's really not okay to keep breeding and buying dogs that struggle for air every day of their lives. I wouldn't have commented except that I've seen some really distressing ones now and I wonder if we need to be more outspoken about what is being inflicted on these dogs.

 

[twiggy2]

I saw a pug recently that was being referred for surgery due to BOAS and you know what, it's really not okay to keep breeding and buying dogs that struggle for air every day of their lives. I wouldn't have commented except that I've seen some really distressing ones now and I wonder if we need to be more outspoken about what is being inflicted on these dogs.

agree

 

[Cinnamontoast]

agree

Same and I'm afraid I've tried to dissuade a friend from buying one until the breed is healthier.

 

[sarahw123]

I know someone who has a young pug, cute, but is completely untrained, fed everything they eat and is seriously overweight. That with the associated problems doesn't bode well. Oh, and the silly owner wants to breed from her. Apparently she can make loads of money selling these pups (omg). You should need a licence to own a dog. Or at the very least half a brain cell

 

[Montyforever]

I saw a pug recently that was being referred for surgery due to BOAS and you know what, it's really not okay to keep breeding and buying dogs that struggle for air every day of their lives. I wouldn't have commented except that I've seen some really distressing ones now and I wonder if we need to be more outspoken about what is being inflicted on these dogs.

Totally agree, its such a shame. One of the ones i know is backwards and forwards to the vets alot with various problems. Its such a shame as they are such lovely little dogs!

 

[Colouredwelsh]

Ok, so I have pugs. Never been to the vets with health issues, bred and self helped a lovely litter of 6. Won and placed at endless amounts of championship shows.

So, what I'm trying to say is if people buy from back street breeders who are not interested in the welfare of the dogs then these issues will continue in the breed but if you buy from reputable people who study the breed lines closely and breed to eliminate the problems then the problems would eventually breed out.

 

[sarahw123]

Ok, so I have pugs. Never been to the vets with health issues, bred and self helped a lovely litter of 6. Won and placed at endless amounts of championship shows.

So, what I'm trying to say is if people buy from back street breeders who are not interested in the welfare of the dogs then these issues will continue in the breed but if you buy from reputable people who study the breed lines closely and breed to eliminate the problems then the problems would eventually breed out.

Well said

 

[ester]

Ok, so I have pugs. Never been to the vets with health issues, bred and self helped a lovely litter of 6. Won and placed at endless amounts of championship shows.

So, what I'm trying to say is if people buy from back street breeders who are not interested in the welfare of the dogs then these issues will continue in the breed but if you buy from reputable people who study the breed lines closely and breed to eliminate the problems then the problems would eventually breed out.

But surely as long as flat faces win in the show ring there will be issues/it would be much healthier for the dogs to have short instead of no muzzles. The whole point is that the health problems are directly related to these traits, you cannot maintain some of the 'desirable' traits without the problems coming too?- screw tails included.

 

[AmyMay]

Such cracking little dogs. But, yes, potential health issues put us off too (plus the price tag....).

 

[twiggy2]

But surely as long as flat faces win in the show ring there will be issues/it would be much healthier for the dogs to have short instead of no muzzles. The whole point is that the health problems are directly related to these traits, you cannot maintain some of the 'desirable' traits without the problems coming too?- screw tails included.

Yep screw tails is a twist in the lower spine-it is a mutation that is being bred for-how is that responsible?

 

[samlf]

pugs, french bulldogs and british bulldogs and appear to have life loving happy temperaments IME, they also have such a list of health issues it is shocking-with humans in control of breeding it has gone very wrong

Agree - I would never support a breeder to breed an animal that cannot function as it should.

 

[Colouredwelsh]

For those who are unaware. The Kennel Club changed the breed standard for the pug, along with several other breeds. So now, a pug (or one of the other 'chosen' breeds) who wins Best of Breed must then be examined by a vet and if fount to have any of the health issues previously allowed to slide through the dog is stripped of its title before the group judging and is not allowed to compete any further. At £25 a class I can assure you I'm not going to be bringing inferior animals out.

And as far as judging is concerned it's the same argument in fat ponies. Happens in all breeds and all classes. Whatever the animal.

And right on cue my lovely fawn girl has come into season today and WILL be mated to a suitable husband.

 

[blackcob]

The veterinary examination is minimal, subjective and therefore a pretty much pointless effort.

"A Championship Show veterinary surgeon is not expected to evaluate the dogs for
conformational characteristics which are of an aesthetic nature only, and therefore
extreme conformation that is not associated with a clinical symptom capable of
affecting health or welfare does not form a basis for preventing a dog from entering
the group competition.

...

The veterinary surgeon is not expected to use any diagnostic aids; this is an external, visual examination only."

These dogs do not have big enough heads to host of all the structures and material that would make up the nose, muzzle and palate of a normal shaped dog - shoved and folded back into their face as these are - but without x-rays and other hands-on diagnostic tools there's no way of proving this in a show ring. The wording even allows for a certain degree of respiratory noise and skin fold irritation!

 

[Venevidivici]

Blackcob,is the bred-for small head the reason why they all seem to have eyes bulging out of their heads these days? And all the ones I see seem to have eyes that pretty much point in different directions too...bizarre,unhealthy and sorry, but imo,pretty damn ugly,never mind the rasping attempts to breathe.

The old pictures of how they used to be show a much healthier,attractive breed (again,imo). The current state of this breed and the horrendous quality/health of the vast majority of puppies being turned out (now that it's a 'trendy',desirable breed) reeeeallly gets my goat.
And I'm not even a pug-lover...

 

[TheFatControlleR]

Interesting thread, some excellent points well made.

We've been considering a smaller dog for many months (actually, on and off for a year or more). We've been on the verge of a change in circumstance for a long time and are planning to take a dog as part of that change when it comes about.

Pugs have been on the list and off the list as much as French Bulldogs, Jack Russells, Boston terriers, and more. If and when the plan comes together we'll knuckle down and make the choice, and this thread will no doubt be part of that process as and when. (Y)

 

[ester]

The veterinary examination is minimal, subjective and therefore a pretty much pointless effort.

"A Championship Show veterinary surgeon is not expected to evaluate the dogs for
conformational characteristics which are of an aesthetic nature only, and therefore
extreme conformation that is not associated with a clinical symptom capable of
affecting health or welfare does not form a basis for preventing a dog from entering
the group competition.

...

The veterinary surgeon is not expected to use any diagnostic aids; this is an external, visual examination only."

These dogs do not have big enough heads to host of all the structures and material that would make up the nose, muzzle and palate of a normal shaped dog - shoved and folded back into their face as these are - but without x-rays and other hands-on diagnostic tools there's no way of proving this in a show ring. The wording even allows for a certain degree of respiratory noise and skin fold irritation!

This the requirements for post class checks are as good as pointless in terms of breeding a better version of the breed.

 

[MileAMinute]

I saw a pug recently that was being referred for surgery due to BOAS and you know what, it's really not okay to keep breeding and buying dogs that struggle for air every day of their lives. I wouldn't have commented except that I've seen some really distressing ones now and I wonder if we need to be more outspoken about what is being inflicted on these dogs.

Another who agrees here.

 

[AmyMay]

Hey TFC, get a Bichon. Fantastic little dogs!!

 

[Dobiegirl]

TFC get a proper dog, get a Lancashire Heeler, they are a very healthy breed and long lived as well, as with all breeds make sure you use one who health tests.

 

[{97702}]

For those who are unaware. The Kennel Club changed the breed standard for the pug, along with several other breeds. So now, a pug (or one of the other 'chosen' breeds) who wins Best of Breed must then be examined by a vet and if fount to have any of the health issues previously allowed to slide through the dog is stripped of its title before the group judging and is not allowed to compete any further. At £25 a class I can assure you I'm not going to be bringing inferior animals out.

And as far as judging is concerned it's the same argument in fat ponies. Happens in all breeds and all classes. Whatever the animal.

And right on cue my lovely fawn girl has come into season today and WILL be mated to a suitable husband.

You are beating your head against a brick wall I fear Colouredwelsh, there are an awful lot of people who have decided that breeders are clearly the work of the devil and cannot do any good.....

I get similar comments every time I mention CKCS on here, despite knowing the breed an awful lot better than a lot of people passing comment

 

[Cinnamontoast]

TFC: border terrier, you know you want to!

 

[TheFatControlleR]

Did I mention, there are a couple of cats in the house... :rolleyes3: