Pupdate and training through adolescence?

Lintel

Lintel

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So our little GSD pup is no longer so little at nearly 7 months old... and boy have we had adolescence with a bang.
The once attentive happy to train and learn tricks puppy has become an ignoramus so say the least. Once enjoyable puppy training classes have become a nightmare .. he will not listen for food.. toys...
He still listens to an extent within the house but training in the park has also gone haywire! Any tips would be much appreciated or is it a case or riding out the storm of youth?


 
We're just come out the other side of this - pup is lucky I didn'y hurl him off a cliff (joking!) ... Stay consistent; ignore what you don't want; reward what you want; don't feel guilty if you lose your **** and scream at him - but accept it won't help and might make matters worse lol .

And more valuable rewards! We had to reduce dinners when adolescence hit ... and then I cooked up some beef with olive oil and parmesan and cut it into tiny cubes. He worked for that all right!!
 
Haha thanks...At the moment I take to popping him out he side for 5 minutes whilst I take some deep breaths! Glad you are now out the other side!
We are currently on hotdogs and cheese for reward value and he is fed raw so I'm not 100% where to go from there is value but I shall try cooked beef and parmesan.. sounds delish!
 
And so it begins ;)

Simply put, the food and toys and your presence and voice are not that important to him, compared to distractions.
This is why it is really important to make yourself the centre of the dog's universe before you start to even think about formal training.

If he gets fed at set times of the day come hell or high water, unless he's a total gorb, food in the park isn't important.
If he has toys lying around in the home or garden he can pick up whenever he wants, toys in the park aren't important.
If he is allowed to self entertain at home, he will self entertain in the park.

Forget about 'training' as such and start working on your bond. Everything Good In His Life Comes From You.
You can't train a dog to do anything if it won't even pay attention to you.

And, sadly, why back garden training lulls a lot of people into a false sense of security.
It's also why some trainers discourage people from letting their pups be over-fussed by strangers or be allowed to rake around with others at classes. It makes everyone else and their dog a much bigger attraction than you.

It's not a popular view anymore but I disagree with ignoring what you don't want, especially in a GSD.
If there is no consequence for behaviour that you don't want, it's A unfair...how does the dog know you don't want the behaviour? And B, dangerous. Ignoring a dog that bogs off after cars or livestock or other dogs will cause an accident. I'd rather a dog gets a leash correction than dies.

You've also just explained why it's better to start with lower value/normal food. He sounds like he has a better diet than I do.
Where do you go from here? Caviar?
 
CorvusCorax said:
And so it begins ;)

Simply put, the food and toys and your presence and voice are not that important to him, compared to distractions.
This is why it is really important to make yourself the centre of the dog's universe before you start to even think about formal training.

If he gets fed at set times of the day come hell or high water, unless he's a total gorb, food in the park isn't important.
If he has toys lying around in the home or garden he can pick up whenever he wants, toys in the park aren't important.
If he is allowed to self entertain at home, he will self entertain in the park.

Forget about 'training' as such and start working on your bond. Everything Good In His Life Comes From You.
You can't train a dog to do anything if it won't even pay attention to you.

And, sadly, why back garden training lulls a lot of people into a false sense of security.
It's also why some trainers discourage people from letting their pups be over-fussed by strangers or be allowed to rake around with others at classes. It makes everyone else and their dog a much bigger attraction than you.

It's not a popular view anymore but I disagree with ignoring what you don't want, especially in a GSD.
If there is no consequence for behaviour that you don't want, it's A unfair...how does the dog know you don't want the behaviour? And B, dangerous. Ignoring a dog that bogs off after cars or livestock or other dogs will cause an accident. I'd rather a dog gets a leash correction than dies.

You've also just explained why it's better to start with lower value/normal food. He sounds like he has a better diet than I do.
Where do you go from here? Caviar?
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Thanks! I think i might start reducing meals and using it as treats. I entirely agree with you in regards to punishment for chasing sheep.. etc etc. We go a positive reward based puppy classes at the minute.. which is all good and well but isn't particularly working with his strong personality at the minute!
 
In my experience it is about damage limitation through adolescence. It is the time that many dogs who end up in rescue are given up for rehoming simply because they do start pushing boundaries, not listening and being little *****s! The good news is that if you have put the work in before adolescence hits and you continue to persevere with training, being consistent and not giving up, then you will come out the other side.

Have a search for the NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) training technique. Similar to what CC has already outlined in that he has to earn everything good in his life - ie work for his dinner, toys, a fuss, your attention etc. It can be something as simple as a recall, down, sit and wait etc before he has his reward of a fuss, dinner, lead on for a walk, play time etc but he will soon learn that he only gets access to valuable resources such as food, treats, toys, and attention when he "earns" it.

He is gorgeous by the way!
 
That sounds like a plan if you're happy with it.

Don't lie to your dog now and let him believe he has total freedom when he's young and fluffy and cute and then suddenly introduce new rules when he's big and bold and strong and more likely to be upset and confused by the sudden rule changes or crumble because he's not been exposed to stress before, or worse, act out.
It's a big mistake and plenty of people have made it, myself included.

Life can be hard...and stressful...and there are rules....it's better (and much more fair) if a dog learns this when he is young.
 
Lintel said:

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I love this photo - he just looks like a cheeky little so and so! I have never had to deal with anything as strong willed as a teenage male GSD but I do agree that no means no, with consequences and a yes means yes with consequences is a good way to go.
 
Nooo! You are bursting my bubble that my clever, kind, adorable 4 month old collie may not stay that way! I shall start to follow the above tips in preparation for reality to hit!

Gorgeous dog though, even if he is a rebellious teenager now. If I wasn’t a collie fanatic I always fancied a GSD as an alternative.
 
Love your reply CC. At last someone who thinks it’s ok for a pup to learn about ‘no’! How on earth do they learn what is acceptable and what is not? They are disciplined by their mother for stepping out of line.
Positive reinforcement is great, my breed is pretty easy to train, they love to please but they need to know what pleases me. They all know that ‘no’ means stop what you are doing. It is always followed up with being shown what is acceptable. My older girls are more or less perfect. My 10 month old just needs ‘a-ah! ‘ as a reminder sometimes.
 
Chiffy said:
Love your reply CC. At last someone who thinks it’s ok for a pup to learn about ‘no’! How on earth do they learn what is acceptable and what is not?
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I"m another who thinks it's OK for them to learn about "no". My 4.5 month GSD dog understands it. Without it he would take over the place.
 
paddy555 said:
I"m another who thinks it's OK for them to learn about "no". My 4.5 month GSD dog understands it. Without it he would take over the place.
Click to expand...

I have only ever met one trainer who didn’t agree with teaching boundaries and using the word “no”. I didn’t hang around for long. My dogs have all been taught about boundaries and understand no means no. I tend to use no for real misdemeanours and “wrong” in a training situation where they haven’t quite grasped what I am trying to teach.
 
At 7 months he's still a puppy. At 18 months he may push the boundaries. Have a look on pedigreedatabase.com at one of the founding shepherds Horand von Grafrath, there is a wonderful quote from V. Stephanitz' book below his picture. This quote, for me, embodies all that you need to know about a shepherd. They want to be with you, it's what they were bred for and sadly they are intelligent enough to know when you don't want to be with them.

I don't use treats, I never have, it's just the way I was trained to train.
 
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